Should We Just "Accept Our Best Shot" and Not Be Bothered If We Don't Make Goal?

[jess9395 5,448]

So@creekimp13 I totally get what you are saying.

Question—what do you think about people who set their goal at numbers that are still obese? I just bristle when they say they know they will look sickly at a normal BMI when they’ve never been at a normal BMI as an adult.

[Creekimp13 5,838]

Technically, by BMI standard, my goal weight is still obese. But my fat percentage will be within normal range because BMI is a very flawed measurement. Arnold Schwarzenegger had an obese BMI when he won Mr. Universe because the BMI scale doesn't take into account different body types or muscle bulk.

I have been 170 pounds before, and was in athletic shape doing huntseat riding competitions. I love how I look and feel at 170 and my doctor agrees with my goal. In fact, my doctor's goal is 172-178 for me based on metabolic testing and Water scale measurement of my actual fat percentage.

But even just randomly...

"what do you think about people who set their goal at numbers that are still obese?"

I think it's none of my fecking business. Or anyone else's....except perhaps their doctor.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Creekimp13

[Healthy_life2 8,319]

Correct me if I'm wrong....This topic was not intended to make people feel crappy about not making goal. It was about setting their own goals and bar.

Some patients set their expectations low and choose not to get the most out of surgery. I see the majority of people here working hard and busting ass for weight loss.

This has been on my mind .......

What does weight loss success mean to each of us? We all have our own journey and weight loss goals.

If the norm for the sleeve is 60% weight loss. Someone starting out with a high BMI/ Super morbidly obese range may get to obese or overweight category. That is successful weight loss for that person...Right?

For others they shoot for the stars and go above and beyond.

______________________________________

I apologize @FluffyChix I'm off topic.

I just want to say this to the people that did not have much weight loss, did not make their goal or feel they like failed (I hate that term) with surgery.

I remember the days when I tried and failed or could not maintain weight loss on my prior diet attempts. I would be absolutely devastated if I lost the battle with weight loss surgery. I have nothing but compassion for what you must be going through.

[Creekimp13 5,838]

3 minutes ago, jenn1 said:

I remember the days when I tried and failed or could not maintain weight loss on my prior diet attempts. (Major reason I had reason that I had surgery) I would be absolutely devastated if I lost the battle with weight loss surgery. I have nothing but compassion for what you must be going through.

This.

[summerset 5,261]

15 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

Voices that embrace balance, moderation and acceptance of multiple different approaches and success levels....get silenced in favor of sports metaphors, "winners", "what works the fastest" and obsessive perfectionism. This concerns me on a lot of levels.

Try to see the positive. At least the boards are not plastered with motivational pictures - yet.

[Healthy_life2 8,319]

18 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

Reading about bariatric surgery on the net.....reminds me a lot of reading about homeschool on the net. There are a lot of parallels.

Both are often considered extreme solutions that are not widely accepted by the people who could utilize them. Proponents tend to be very polarized in their views. Critics, too. There's a lot of ignorance in public perception, and a lot that could be done to help demystify the process....but people tend to be kinda closeted about what they're doing.....particularly people who have a more moderate experience and are not balls to the wall aggressive about pursing their goals.

Most of the people who are making a lot of noise in both communities...are having a lot of success and it's working for them. They are also very driven to particular lofty goals. (think...the homeschool parents who MUST send their kid to an Ivy League school)

People who are having more moderate success...tend to be quieter, and disappear from communities shortly after they arrive. Their stories are not as big a part of the public discussion. And it's a shame....because those voices represent far more people than the louder folks who push themselves to extremes. It's sad because it creates insanely unrealistic and competitive standards and less room for honesty, vulnerability and support. Do I blame them for leaving? Nope.

(and incidentally, I know I've done very well statistically so far...and I know I've been enthusiastic and loud about it...I'm not innocent of the very thing I'm complaining about...I'm just trying to become more aware)

I think we can do better to honor the experiences of all involved....and help create a more realistic, inclusive, WHOLE picture of the process and various results of all community members.

Voices that embrace balance, moderation and acceptance of multiple different approaches and success levels....get silenced in favor of sports metaphors, "winners", "what works the fastest" and obsessive perfectionism. This concerns me on a lot of levels.

At least there are no kids involved here.

Moderate quite versus loud extreme? I'm getting an us against them vibe.

I would hope I'm not being lumped into this category of an extreme obsessive perfectionist that is driving people to leave shortly after they arrive.

It would be great if we valued all experiences, approaches, success levels and personal goals. That would include valuing people that are loud, have aggressive goals and push themselves to extremes.

Congratulations on doing well, being enthusiastic and loud.

[Creekimp13 5,838]

3 hours ago, jenn1 said:

I'm getting an us against them vibe.

This whole thread has an us against them vibe. That was my point.

Do you really think ANYONE who has bariatric surgery isn't "bothered" if they don't make goal?

The implication is....why don't those lazy fat people care?

Edited May 13, 2018 by Creekimp13

[Orchids&Dragons 9,047]

@Creekimp13 beautifully said, I wish I had your talent with words. Another parallel, I have 4 kids. 3 were perfectly capable of A's almost all the time and we expected that. The other had to work harder than them to gets B's and C's. We sent him to extra tutoring, we helped with homework, followed up on whether he had turned in papers (ADD) and just had to push/guide him more than the others. He's a great kid whether or not he ever achieves educational "success." He's exploring the options of trade school because after 6 years, he's still not finished with college. We are very proud of him.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Orchids&Dragons

[Creekimp13 5,838]

You know, I understand the idea of... "We should be able to say things that could possibly upset others" as long as we're polite about it. And we should.

I'm just suggesting that we can be enthusiastic and loud about our own success without criticizing the experiences of others.

If it's about you, make it about you. Give us some good news. Be inspiring. Don't piss on others. There is nothing to be gained by it.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Creekimp13

[Creekimp13 5,838]

10 hours ago, jenn1 said:

Some patients set their expectations low and choose not to get the most out of surgery.

You know....I have never never seen a single person who has had bariatric surgery do this.

I've seen a few struggle like hell, and make terrible habit choices, and get caught in a cycle of addiction, or mood disorders that make regulating their behavior hard. I've seen a few people on prednisone and other meds for medical disorders that they can't get off of....who fight their weight tooth and nail even after surgery. I've seen people dealing with menopause and other hormonal disturbances... and grief from tragedies..... and financial issues that limit the medical/psychological support they can get....fighting really hard and still not making much progress.

But I have NEVER seen someone intentionally set their expectations low and CHOOSE not to get the most out of surgery.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Creekimp13

[FluffyChix 17,410]

On 5/6/2018 at 12:21 PM, FluffyChix said:

WARNING!!! Will Robinson--Danger! Danger! Run away! Rant ahead!

Ok guys, can we have a discussion--er, I mean a rant please? I just read an interesting article in BP Magazine: "The 5 Mindset Shifts You NEED To Make To Be Truly Happy After WLS". (click on link to read full article)

I will post the basic 5 tenets below, but the first one stands out to me. And I just really have a BIG issue with this philosophy. Because, WE (MO and formerly MO people) are NOT like the rest of the world...I'll explain more later. What am I missing?

I'll post the tenets first, then post my comments below.

1. My weight does not determine my success nor worth.

“If you accept your personal best at everything else in life, why not weight?” – Yoni Freedhoff

QUOTE-not mine: "Isn’t that SUCH a good quote?

Is your WLS team happy with your progress, but you aren’t? Why are you still pushing for and obsessing over those next 10 lbs? Reflect on why you feel that you must lose those extra pounds and what will happen if you don’t?"

2. I acknowledge that a healthy lifestyle (i.e. eating healthy most of the time and moving my body often) is a part-time job. Some weeks it doesn’t feel like work, but often it does.

3. I see meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking as acts of self-care.

4. I move my body because it feels good and helps me to re-charge. I don’t exercise to control my weight.

5. I am not on a diet. I eat foods that I enjoy. I practice moderation and flexible eating to the best of my ability.

My thought: Ok, so my biggest issue with this is the quote after the first point. No, your weight shouldn't determine your self-worth, but it DOES and SHOULD influence it somewhat. And the quote is just like saying...you've just rearranged your body. It's ok if you don't win at weight loss. You'll still get this lovely participation trophy. Well that's just nuckin' futs! I'm serious WHACKamole nuts!!! I'm sorry, there are no contradictions in life. If you find one, check the premise. That is what will be wrong. ~ Ayn Rand.

I did not alter my anatomy in such a drastic non-reversible manner to stop short of my goal by 10lbs. Or worse, to rationalize that it's OK to still be in the obese or overweight category after my honeymoon period ends. Fu*k no I didn't! I'm going balls to the wall, KISS stupid until I make goal. Then an only then will I modify my "diet" to a maintenance level diet. Right now, I'm in a take-no-prisoners-leave-no-man-behind weight loss mode and nobody better get in my way. (Oh I'm talking to you Little Debbie you pusher ho.) LOL.

So yeah, I don't get it. Fu*k my personal best. I'm a fatty. I have a FAT brain. I am addicted to food and LOVE it. I am a food seeker. That isn't magically gonna change after 55 years of programming. It's not gonna change even if I lose all my weight. I will still have a fat brain with billions of starvin' marvin' empty fat cells still secreting hormones urging me to feed greedy little empty Seymours. I will still have a hypothalamus that is programmed to jones for food hits. I will still have pleasure centers in my brain jonesing for that dopamine and serotonin fix it gets from food. And If I do change, it certainly won't happen within a short term period. I have to be de-programmed and re-programmed and that takes time, so much time, and repetition, and not quitting. And have you EVER tried to out match you lymbic system where the urge to eat lives? Some doc said, if you think you can beat it...try holding your breath and see how far that gets you. The hypothalamus beats all in the rock-scissors game of life.

So what I have to do in order to achieve success here is to realize that because of my MO and the reality that has set up biochemically in my body and my big FAT brain, I have to modify my thinking and behaviors for life in a way that no skinny person can even HOPE to understand. I have to work harder, try longer, be more determined, be more cunning. Of course it will ALWAYS be a diet. LOL. To believe that suddenly, because of a magic surgery whose effect "dim" a little after 2 years, you will SUDDENLY be able to tolerate life in moderation is like wishing on the tooth fairy. LOL. Just my opinion.

Ok, so sorry about the rant.

Do y'all have any thoughts on this???

Ok, so of course Creek will deny this. But, this thread began in the "RANTS" section because the original article struck a nerve for me, PERSONALLY. It never began nor was it intended to be an US against THEM. It was only EVER a

ME against MY INNER LITTLE DEBBIE LOVIN' FAT BRAIN.

The. End.

I invited discussion about it, because I respect quite a good many of you and learn so much from hearing other peoples' viewpoints. They do OFTEN stretch and challenge my own viewpoints.

But instead, what has happened, is that Creek chose very early in the thread to make this an us v. them discussion. And she has continued to cast aspersions and make personal attacks. And although she's a very clever p/a debator--some might even call her a master at this, the thinly veiled insults ARE recognized by me.

So yes, I am the one she is insulting as being loud, aggressive, elitist, failing to have empathy for my fellow WL bros and sis's, obsessive perfectionism, balls to the wall, etc. I could go on and on cuz she seems to delight on following into my threads to discredit and demean my own personal nutritional position with her far superior "balance" approach and has insulted me in those threads as well. So it's something of a pattern I fully recognize and expect. I'm ok with that cuz luckily I do not define my sense of self by her lack of regard of my personality.

But I have always made it very clear, that my views and my plan are just that. MY plan and views. I do not expect others to follow me. I don't believe mine is the only path.

But I am so tired of her BS. So she will limit and still my voice here, cuz I have other fish to fry. And I can be quite happy in my own little progress thread. Cuz God and baby Jesus know, I do not want to cause anyone not to participate here with my loud obnoxious over-achieving self. (her description--not mine).

Edited May 13, 2018 by FluffyChix

[summerset 5,261]

3 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

But I have NEVER seen someone intentionally set their expectations low and CHOOSE not to get the most out of surgery.

Me neither.

But even if there are patients who are doing this: it's none of my business and I don't understand why it seems to be someone else's.

Goals also change with time and experience in every aspect of life.

Edited May 13, 2018 by summerset

[Orchids&Dragons 9,047]

1 hour ago, summerset said:

Me neither.

But even if there are patients who are doing this: it's none of my business and I don't understand why it seems to be someone else's.

Goals also change with time and experience in every aspect of life.

I think we've all got different successful outcomes. For some, it's getting to a certain number, for others, it's lowering blood pressure or releiving pain in their joints. Still others are losing weight to help with fertility issues. Once someone gets to the point that their driving issue is no longer an issue, they may be completely satisfied or they may then re-evaluate and continue. They may set incremental goals rather than a final goal so as not to have others see them as a failure if they don't make that goal. We've all suffered humiliations; maybe they just can't stomach the possibility of one more (pun intended). We all need different things out of this life.

However, that was not the point of the article. This is one of the articles that comfort some people and irritate others. It was perfectly ok for Fluffy to state that she disagreed with the premise of the article. I suspect it depends on your own personality, maybe even an alpha type vs. beta personality. From Psychology Today "In a group of women, the Alpha is the one who exerts power and influence through her ability to take charge of the conversation, while the Beta will tend to listen and support. In the extremes of both, an Alpha may be too confrontational; a Beta may be too passive." I'm a beta, leaning toward Omega - very non-confrontational, low drama. It's not a case of better or worse, just different.

The world needs all types! Great article if anyone's interested https://themindsjournal.com/alpha-beta-omega/

[Healthy_life2 8,319]

6 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

You know, I understand the idea of... "We should be able to say things that could possibly upset others" as long as we're polite about it. And we should.

I'm just suggesting that we can be enthusiastic and loud about our own success without criticizing the experiences of others.

If it's about you, make it about you. Give us some good news. Be inspiring. Don't piss on others. There is nothing to be gained by it.

I'm trying not to beat the dead horse. @Creekimp13

I agree, This and us against them thread.

This is also not all about you or your post directly: This is observations over the years of weight based discrimination among bariatric patients. Is this about me? I guess that would be if I fit into the criteria of "extreme" I have no Idea what "extreme" means to you or other on the forum. Can be interpreted many ways.

[Sleeved36 356]

WOW! Just stumbled on this thread and read the whole thing.

FluffyChix: Totally get what you were saying about the article, it sounded a little more like "throwing in the towel" than "moderation". There is a difference. To tell yourself that you do not exercise for weight loss is just dumb, it has to be PART of the reason. I do agree that the scale does not determine my self worth, I will be ok with a reasonable range of weights. REASONABLE, not bc I gave up.

The way you talk about weight loss is like a warrior going into battle, and that is exactly what it is. It is the exact words many people use to describe thier weight loss journey. We have all heard people say things like: "I have been battling with my weight."

We have to be geared up for a fight with our own bodies/fat cells. I hear You, take no prisoners this is war against my fat body. Surgery is just one weapon we have in this war, the rest is our choices and determination. KEEP FIGHTING!

We all have different goals and that's ok.

I just had surgery 4 days ago and do not intend to waste this opportunity either. This is my best shot at a healthy new me. But at the same time I have not set a specific weight goal for myself and at 5'4" I expect to still be considered overweight. That's ok, I am focused on NSV.

Don't let anyone discourage you. Keep working towards your goal. Fight like hell.