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12 hours ago, Tealael said:

I have seen it happen here

What I have seen - The person has great reputation for being a positive contributor to the site. This has not been a pattern of their posts. It comes down to intent and interpretation. I think that is why I am shocked to see them accused bullying.

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21 hours ago, Sosewsue61 said:

I tend to agree that a lot of labels are flying around too loosely defined and used to sensationalize nearly everything to such an extent that real events involving crimminal activity get ignored or lumped in with a total non-event.

I so agree!!!!!

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Targeted flaming/harassment/impersonation/exculsion?

Rumors/threats/impersonation/disclosing personal information?

Stalking?

If so report it. It will get the person banned. If not, it’s not cyber bullying. It’s perhaps being blunt or not tactful or even downright mean, but it’s not bullying.

Mean does not equal bullying. Bullying is about an imbalance of power and exploiting that.



Ok


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What I have seen - The person has great reputation for being a positive contributor to the site. This has not been a pattern of their posts. It comes down to intent and interpretation. I think that is why I am shocked to see them accused bullying.

I was speaking generally
I have seen it on a few threads over the months I've been on the site
I have no knowledge of any specific situation at this time


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Why is what I said above funny? I am very serious. There is enough meanness out in the world.

I agree
More kindness is needed


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Quote

But bullying is always about difference in power. By definition. That doesn’t exist here on this board.

"Bullying" as a word has almost lost meaning, so I'm not going to get too hung up on that, but exclusionary/conformist behavior due to power imbalance is usually what's seen as bullying in an online community. Power imbalance online is absolutely a real and quantifiable thing. Sometimes the person exhibiting the behavior doesn't realize they're doing it - as far as they're concerned, they're just giving their opinion. But when that opinion-giving is done in a tone that clearly isn't sitting well with the recipient, and when the opinion-giver has reputational clout on the board (either through lots of posts that get lots of likes or through people who quote them and boost their signal), that can end up being isolating. It doesn't help when the opinion-giver's response to pushback is an unapologetic "I'm just being real", which pretty much carries the silent closer "...you wimp". The opinion-giver walks away thinking the recipient is crying wolf about being attacked and the recipient sees nothing but arrogance and swagger, and typically exits the space because of the unpleasant encounter.

The internet's weird in that it forces us to over-rely on ONE form of communication that's a relatively modern invention: text. That removes body language, tone, expression, and it also tends to drag out flare-ups that WOULD be about 3 minutes in person to a 3-day back-and-forth. So it festers. If both sides dig in and other commenters join, it turns into a big stupid thing when in perspective, anyone looking at the situation would be amazed it blew up at all.

I was a moderator on a global platform for a few years enforcing community codes, and these are the ground rules I've come away with:

  • If someone tells you they don't like your tone or that you're bullying them, disengage. It's not worth it, no argument about tone EVER ends well, and it will be an exercise in frustration. Dial back on your engagement in that thread and refocus on the subject being discussed rather than the participants. Do not give in to the temptation to go overboard and attempt to isolate the person you don't like by railroading discussion away from them - that's petty as hell. Just focus in a normal way on other elements of the thread. You do not need to fight for your honor in this situation, just walk away.
  • If two people tell you they don't like your tone, it's worth trying to put yourself in their shoes and re-reading your posts. Sometimes sass comes off as rudeness or dismissiveness. Determine for yourself if you want to modify the way you write - some people believe being "true to their personality" is worth pissing a few people off, others ease off the sharp edges a bit so they get into fewer tiffs and more worthwhile discussion.
  • If you find yourself routinely on the receiving end of a bullying accusation, think about your role in the community. Sometimes it's not just your behavior in isolation, it's the knock-on impact of your friends on the site who end up making the other poster feel ganged up on. If you're a member in good standing on the site and you've got a lot of onsite friends and you all tend to agree with each other, realize that this might come across as mob rule. With great power comes great responsibility, etc etc - rather than just seeing yourself as a single commenter, acknowledge your role as part of a clique and do what you can to manage those interactions so they're less overwhelming for outsiders.
  • If you're a spectator on one of these threads (or a clique member), DO NOT PILE ON once things get prickly. Do not join a side. Post about the topic at hand instead to redirect discussion.

Targeting and exclusion online are very real things, and there have definitely been instances on this site. There are some people who cry "bullying" just because someone disagrees with them and they have a victim complex, but they're relatively rare. Usually it's a real response to feeling ganged up on, shouted down or interpreting tone as mean-spirited. Does that mean one person has to accept the title of "bully" and the other victimhood? No. It just means that for an online community to be welcoming we all need to be aware of the drawbacks of a text-only mode of communication where each individual interprets tone differently, and where power is accrued through reputation and history.

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But bullying is always about difference in power. By definition. That doesn’t exist here on this board.
"Bullying" as a word has almost lost meaning, so I'm not going to get too hung up on that, but exclusionary/conformist behavior due to power imbalance is usually what's seen as bullying in an online community. Power imbalance online is absolutely a real and quantifiable thing. Sometimes the person exhibiting the behavior doesn't realize they're doing it - as far as they're concerned, they're just giving their opinion. But when that opinion-giving is done in a tone that clearly isn't sitting well with the recipient, and when the opinion-giver has reputational clout on the board (either through lots of posts that get lots of likes or through people who quote them and boost their signal), that can end up being isolating. It doesn't help when the opinion-giver's response to pushback is an unapologetic "I'm just being real", which pretty much carries the silent closer "...you wimp". The opinion-giver walks away thinking the recipient is crying wolf about being attacked and the recipient sees nothing but arrogance and swagger, and typically exits the space because of the unpleasant encounter.
The internet's weird in that it forces us to over-rely on ONE form of communication that's a relatively modern invention: text. That removes body language, tone, expression, and it also tends to drag out flare-ups that WOULD be about 3 minutes in person to a 3-day back-and-forth. So it festers. If both sides dig in and other commenters join, it turns into a big stupid thing when in perspective, anyone looking at the situation would be amazed it blew up at all.
I was a moderator on a global platform for a few years enforcing community codes, and these are the ground rules I've come away with:
  • If someone tells you they don't like your tone or that you're bullying them, disengage. It's not worth it, no argument about tone EVER ends well, and it will be an exercise in frustration. Dial back on your engagement in that thread and refocus on the subject being discussed rather than the participants. Do not give in to the temptation to go overboard and attempt to isolate the person you don't like by railroading discussion away from them - that's petty as hell. Just focus in a normal way on other elements of the thread. You do not need to fight for your honor in this situation, just walk away.
  • If two people tell you they don't like your tone, it's worth trying to put yourself in their shoes and re-reading your posts. Sometimes sass comes off as rudeness or dismissiveness. Determine for yourself if you want to modify the way you write - some people believe being "true to their personality" is worth pissing a few people off, others ease off the sharp edges a bit so they get into fewer tiffs and more worthwhile discussion.
  • If you find yourself routinely on the receiving end of a bullying accusation, think about your role in the community. Sometimes it's not just your behavior in isolation, it's the knock-on impact of your friends on the site who end up making the other poster feel ganged up on. If you're a member in good standing on the site and you've got a lot of onsite friends and you all tend to agree with each other, realize that this might come across as mob rule. With great power comes great responsibility, etc etc - rather than just seeing yourself as a single commenter, acknowledge your role as part of a clique and do what you can to manage those interactions so they're less overwhelming for outsiders.
  • If you're a spectator on one of these threads (or a clique member), DO NOT PILE ON once things get prickly. Do not join a side. Post about the topic at hand instead to redirect discussion.
Targeting and exclusion online are very real things, and there have definitely been instances on this site. There are some people who cry "bullying" just because someone disagrees with them and they have a victim complex, but they're relatively rare. Usually it's a real response to feeling ganged up on, shouted down or interpreting tone as mean-spirited. Does that mean one person has to accept the title of "bully" and the other victimhood? No. It just means that for an online community to be welcoming we all need to be aware of the drawbacks of a text-only mode of communication where each individual interprets tone differently, and where power is accrued through reputation and history.

Thought provoking



HW 270
SW 238
CW 182
VSG 11/7
[emoji146][emoji146][emoji146]

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My quote didn’t work here so I’m editing

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"Bullying" as a word has almost lost meaning, so I'm not going to get too hung up on that, but exclusionary/conformist behavior due to power imbalance is usually what's seen as bullying in an online community. Power imbalance online is absolutely a real and quantifiable thing. Sometimes the person exhibiting the behavior doesn't realize they're doing it - as far as they're concerned, they're just giving their opinion. But when that opinion-giving is done in a tone that clearly isn't sitting well with the recipient, and when the opinion-giver has reputational clout on the board (either through lots of posts that get lots of likes or through people who quote them and boost their signal), that can end up being isolating. It doesn't help when the opinion-giver's response to pushback is an unapologetic "I'm just being real", which pretty much carries the silent closer "...you wimp". The opinion-giver walks away thinking the recipient is crying wolf about being attacked and the recipient sees nothing but arrogance and swagger, and typically exits the space because of the unpleasant encounter.
The internet's weird in that it forces us to over-rely on ONE form of communication that's a relatively modern invention: text. That removes body language, tone, expression, and it also tends to drag out flare-ups that WOULD be about 3 minutes in person to a 3-day back-and-forth. So it festers. If both sides dig in and other commenters join, it turns into a big stupid thing when in perspective, anyone looking at the situation would be amazed it blew up at all.
I was a moderator on a global platform for a few years enforcing community codes, and these are the ground rules I've come away with:
  • If someone tells you they don't like your tone or that you're bullying them, disengage. It's not worth it, no argument about tone EVER ends well, and it will be an exercise in frustration. Dial back on your engagement in that thread and refocus on the subject being discussed rather than the participants. Do not give in to the temptation to go overboard and attempt to isolate the person you don't like by railroading discussion away from them - that's petty as hell. Just focus in a normal way on other elements of the thread. You do not need to fight for your honor in this situation, just walk away.
  • If two people tell you they don't like your tone, it's worth trying to put yourself in their shoes and re-reading your posts. Sometimes sass comes off as rudeness or dismissiveness. Determine for yourself if you want to modify the way you write - some people believe being "true to their personality" is worth pissing a few people off, others ease off the sharp edges a bit so they get into fewer tiffs and more worthwhile discussion.
  • If you find yourself routinely on the receiving end of a bullying accusation, think about your role in the community. Sometimes it's not just your behavior in isolation, it's the knock-on impact of your friends on the site who end up making the other poster feel ganged up on. If you're a member in good standing on the site and you've got a lot of onsite friends and you all tend to agree with each other, realize that this might come across as mob rule. With great power comes great responsibility, etc etc - rather than just seeing yourself as a single commenter, acknowledge your role as part of a clique and do what you can to manage those interactions so they're less overwhelming for outsiders.
  • If you're a spectator on one of these threads (or a clique member), DO NOT PILE ON once things get prickly. Do not join a side. Post about the topic at hand instead to redirect discussion.
Targeting and exclusion online are very real things, and there have definitely been instances on this site. There are some people who cry "bullying" just because someone disagrees with them and they have a victim complex, but they're relatively rare. Usually it's a real response to feeling ganged up on, shouted down or interpreting tone as mean-spirited. Does that mean one person has to accept the title of "bully" and the other victimhood? No. It just means that for an online community to be welcoming we all need to be aware of the drawbacks of a text-only mode of communication where each individual interprets tone differently, and where power is accrued through reputation and history.

Thought provoking



HW 270
SW 238
CW 182
VSG 11/7
[emoji146][emoji146][emoji146]


And I would not stay on this board you describe. Too many limits on communication.

I’m glad there are choices, just like in life.

Different boards, different cultures. We all grow, learn, thrive in different climates.



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My response is to@sideeye this quoting thing got messed up in this thread.

It’s the rants and raves board. I can rant and rave on here about labels and such. I didn’t take it up in any of the discussions where it’s arisen and haven’t. And it comes up repeatedly... and has for years and years. Drove some good people away.

This makes me sad. Thus my rant.


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And BTW I have no clique and no online friends. I have agreed and disagreed with the same people.

I dont come here for friends, I come here for a free exchange of ideas and information.


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Not looking to kick something off and in fact have no idea what prompted the initial rant. Just describing a pattern observed after a few years of monitoring online exchanges 8 hours a day.

All the limits I described are self-imposed; I find it makes online life simpler and prevents people from leaving the board. That's all.

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Not looking to kick something off and in fact have no idea what prompted the initial rant. Just describing a pattern observed after a few years of monitoring online exchanges 8 hours a day.
All the limits I described are self-imposed; I find it makes online life simpler and prevents people from leaving the board. That's all.


Different strokes.

Sometimes self selection and people leaving one board for another isn’t a bad thing. Some of my favorite boards were founded by people who left other boards.

People are not homogeneous and thus we seek different online experiences. So different forums with different experiences are a good thing.

I like to have people be blunt with me and call me on my crap. And I dont like to self censor and worry about offending people. Luckily those things should go together in a message board culture.

I’m a duck things roll off my back. But I can also be quite blunt. I don’t think I’m unkind but I don’t care if someone does think that.

My type deserves a home just as much as the other.


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I have not seen much true "bullying", but there are plenty of exchanges that get petty, heated, and unnecessarily rude. It is disappointing when this happens.

Blunt is just stating basic truth without suger coating it. Blunt is different than nasty. To be clear, I am not talking about you Jess9395. I remember you said you were blunt, just saying in general.

Attacking someone elses intelligence is never ok.

Just because we are posting in the rant section should not mean that all civility is lost.

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I have not seen much true "bullying", but there are plenty of exchanges that get petty, heated, and unnecessarily rude. It is disappointing when this happens.
Blunt is just stating basic truth without suger coating it. Blunt is different than nasty. To be clear, I am not talking about you Jess9395. I remember you said you were blunt, just saying in general.
Attacking someone elses intelligence is never ok.
Just because we are posting in the rant section should not mean that all civility is lost.


I am definitely blunt! I have been known to be rude on occasion.

Nasty is never appreciated. All I am saying is nasty is different than bullying and I wish people would recognize that. Tell me to knock it off, tell me I’m being rude, heck say “that was nasty and uncalled for” but to call it bullying is to, in my not so humble opinion, lessen what victims of actual bullying experience. It also makes the person crying “bully” lose some credibility.


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