Do You Agree With Brad ??

anonemouse · October 10, 2007

Thank you, Elena. You know, even when I was skeptical or had doubts, I remained faithful to my religion because it made me a better person. When I hear people say that Christians are mean or intolerant (because of the actions of few bad people---as if they represent us all), I want to cry with frustration. We get judged so much harsher than anyone else, as if there are no mean or intolerant atheists, muslims, etc., and within every other group of people. A true Christian is kind, loving, giving and unselfish and most that I know are like that. You sound like one of them. Thank you for sharing your beliefs here. God bless you, too!

Honestly, I think that if Christians get judged harder than anyone, I think it is because Christianity is supposed to be about loving and accepting your fellow man. There is no such standard in Atheism, just that we believe that there is no higher power. When we Atheists see people that profess to be Christian (and who are we to tell them they aren't really Christians?) but still speak with hate in their hearts, still despise their fellow man, still rape and murder and gay-bash and....well, you get my point. I think you need to try and see it from our point of view. When the loudest voices of a group are the ones that speak hate, what would you think? Yes, I think they are the vast minority, but they are the loudest.

ELENATION · October 10, 2007

Thank you, Elena. You know, even when I was skeptical or had doubts, I remained faithful to my religion because it made me a better person. When I hear people say that Christians are mean or intolerant (because of the actions of few bad people---as if they represent us all), I want to cry with frustration. We get judged so much harsher than anyone else, as if there are no mean or intolerant atheists, muslims, etc., and within every other group of people. A true Christian is kind, loving, giving and unselfish and most that I know are like that. You sound like one of them. Thank you for sharing your beliefs here. God bless you, too!

Thank you so much for your kind words...I totally agree with you, there are intolerant mean people in any religion or atheists, just in general..... you know, because some of the things that are writen in the Bible talk about condemnation, or because certain people that interpret the Bible in the wrong way, or like you said, because some few people that are behaving wrong and are Christians, it definitely doesn't mean that everyone is the same.... I also know many Christians and most of them are loving and caring and good people... not perfect, and they don't claim to be perfect either....

Love

Elena

ELENATION · October 10, 2007

Honestly, I think that if Christians get judged harder than anyone, I think it is because Christianity is supposed to be about loving and accepting your fellow man. There is no such standard in Atheism, just that we believe that there is no higher power. When we Atheists see people that profess to be Christian (and who are we to tell them they aren't really Christians?) but still speak with hate in their hearts, still despise their fellow man, still rape and murder and gay-bash and....well, you get my point. I think you need to try and see it from our point of view. When the loudest voices of a group are the ones that speak hate, what would you think? Yes, I think they are the vast minority, but they are the loudest.

I respectfully disagree.... I don't think it's necessarily the loudest.... I do agree that is a minority though....

Also, I've heard people from different religions and also atheists speaking with hate in their hearts, I don't think it matters that one says that they believe in a higher power and the other one doesn't ,ultimately they are all wrong for speaking with hate, it's just not right... and I don't think that the religious one should be judged harsher because what their religion stands for and the atheists doesn't need to be judge so harsh because they don't really live by any standards, at least standards coming from a particular religion... so does that mean that atheists could get away with any type of behavior? , shouldn't atheists also live by at least some personal decent standards ? and isn't wrong to speak with hate, period? so IMHO , religious and atheists, they are both doing something wrong in a case like that...and if they are to be judged, which it's not my job for sure.... but if they are, then they should both be judged in the same way...

anonemouse · October 10, 2007

I respectfully disagree.... I don't think it's necessarily the loudest.... I do agree that is a minority though....
Also, I've heard people from different religions and also atheists speaking with hate in their hearts, I don't think it matters that one says that they believe in a higher power and the other one doesn't ,ultimately they are all wrong for speaking with hate, it's just not right... and I don't think that the religious one should be judged harsher because what their religion stands for and the atheists doesn't need to be judge so harsh because they don't really live by any standards, at least standards coming from a particular religion... so does that mean that atheists could get away with any type of behavior? , shouldn't atheists also live by at least some personal decent standards ? and isn't wrong to speak with hate, period? so IMHO , religious and atheists, they are both doing something wrong in a case like that...and if they are to be judged, which it's not my job for sure.... but if they are, then they should both be judged in the same way...

I didn't say they weren't doing anything wrong. There are bad people out there, no matter what their personal creed is. But when you get a group of people that are supposed to love their fellow man and whatnot to be in that group, and then one turns around and starts talking about gays and black men as "faggots" and "niggers," it kind of makes an impression. And, good or bad, it makes more of an impression coming from someone is part of a group that is supposed to be loving and caring.

WASaBubbleButt · October 10, 2007

Honestly, I think that if Christians get judged harder than anyone, I think it is because Christianity is supposed to be about loving and accepting your fellow man. There is no such standard in Atheism, just that we believe that there is no higher power. When we Atheists see people that profess to be Christian (and who are we to tell them they aren't really Christians?) but still speak with hate in their hearts, still despise their fellow man, still rape and murder and gay-bash and....well, you get my point. I think you need to try and see it from our point of view. When the loudest voices of a group are the ones that speak hate, what would you think? Yes, I think they are the vast minority, but they are the loudest.

I just ran across a site the other day that blew my mind.

Now, before I post this link I have to say that in no way does any intelligent atheist believe or assume this is mainstream and this is how your typical Christians behave. We KNOW this is NOT the case. I tend to think most people put forth some amount of effort to live their beliefs.

With that said, check out this website. It will make your stomach turn. These are the type of folks Lauren might be referring to, those that are loud yet the minority.

And if you are Christian and want to give these folks a piece of your mind, don't bother. You'll just be slam dunked, beaten with a verbal stick, and run off the boards. These people are not worth your time. I only post it to show what we deal with on a daily basis merely because we lack belief. These are the types of people that are in our face if they discover we lack belief:

Quick Registration

I read the following thread and about gagged, it's not even about atheists, just those that aren't the right color and in the medical profession (makes you wonder what they would think of me, white, atheist, and in medicine...heh):

Quick Registration

There are plenty of other threads that hate in the name of love when it comes to atheism.

Again, I KNOW these are not your typical Christians, but these are OUR typical Christians. These are the people that tend to love us to the point of giving us the heebie jeebies.

People wonder why atheists hate Christians. We don't, we don't hate them in the least. We don't like what we deal with when we actually tell people we lack belief because the above is what we encounter.

WASaBubbleButt · October 10, 2007

Thank you so much for your kind words...I totally agree with you, there are intolerant mean people in any religion or atheists, just in general..... you know, because some of the things that are writen in the Bible talk about condemnation, or because certain people that interpret the Bible in the wrong way, or like you said, because some few people that are behaving wrong and are Christians, it definitely doesn't mean that everyone is the same.... I also know many Christians and most of them are loving and caring and good people... not perfect, and they don't claim to be perfect either....
Love

Elena

Elena...

Atheists tend to lump certain types of Christians in one group and we refer to them as fundies. Fundies to most of us are the type of folks as in the link posted above.

There are quite a few atheists that would disagree with me but I have a hunch Lauren would agree with me about my thoughts on this.

Just as there are Christian fundies there are atheist fundies. They are the type that want to do the thinking for everyone, they want everyone to believe (or lack belief) as they do, anyone who doesn't think and feel as they do are stupid and unable to think on their own, etc. There ARE atheist fundies. Fundies are not a specific religion in my mind, they are a specific mindset, they have a specific way of thinking.

Ron is one of them, he used to post over here but pretty much realized he was out of his league and ran away when he couldn't battle those with a working brain. But the fundies here of either side (believer/non believer) are few and far between.

WASaBubbleButt · October 10, 2007

...and isn't wrong to speak with hate, period? so IMHO , religious and atheists, they are both doing something wrong in a case like that...and if they are to be judged, which it's not my job for sure.... but if they are, then they should both be judged in the same way...

This brings up an excellent point. I agree, atheists need to live a good life and harm nobody.

Let's say I agree with you about being judged. Do you think someone should be judged by the life they life or who they worship?

WASaBubbleButt · October 10, 2007

I just ran across a site the other day that blew my mind.
Now, before I post this link I have to say that in no way does any intelligent atheist believe or assume this is mainstream and this is how your typical Christians behave. We KNOW this is NOT the case. I tend to think most people put forth some amount of effort to live their beliefs.

With that said, check out this website. It will make your stomach turn. These are the type of folks Lauren might be referring to, those that are loud yet the minority.

And if you are Christian and want to give these folks a piece of your mind, don't bother. You'll just be slam dunked, beaten with a verbal stick, and run off the boards. These people are not worth your time. I only post it to show what we deal with on a daily basis merely because we lack belief. These are the types of people that are in our face if they discover we lack belief:

Quick Registration

I read the following thread and about gagged, it's not even about atheists, just those that aren't the right color and in the medical profession (makes you wonder what they would think of me, white, atheist, and in medicine...heh):

Quick Registration

There are plenty of other threads that hate in the name of love when it comes to atheism.

Again, I KNOW these are not your typical Christians, but these are OUR typical Christians. These are the people that tend to love us to the point of giving us the heebie jeebies.

People wonder why atheists hate Christians. We don't, we don't hate them in the least. We don't like what we deal with when we actually tell people we lack belief because the above is what we encounter.

Whoops... sorry, I didn't realize those links would be something you have to register for. It is delphi.com. Just a bunch of message boards similar to Welcome to About.com. If you do register just use a fake email address or a yahoo address. I've been a member for years and have never received spam but you never know when they'll start.

kagoscuba · October 10, 2007

I agree mostly. I'm a Unitarian, if you had to put a label on me. God directs no influence on the earth, and all the supernatural stuff taught to us is BS. I do believe in a higher power though, and I believe he will one day reward those who lived a good life. However, he's not going to save one person on this earth who is in trouble. I'm reading Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason" right now...a most excellent book on this subject...George Bush should pick up a copy.

anonemouse · October 10, 2007

To add to my last post....

And yes, most Atheists do live by their personal standards. But that's just it, they are their personal standards. There isn't any one group of moral standards that they are supposed to be living by, in order to be an Atheist. If one decides to cheat on an exam, it doesn't affect me whatsoever. Yes, that violates MY standards, but we don't have to share the same standards in order to be Atheists.

anonemouse · October 10, 2007

I think most loving Christians would be completely shocked by what a person who is open about their Atheism faces. The people that, to them, are a quiet minority (the people who openly hate) are to us a very vocal minority. So, yes, to us they speak the loudest. You can't say "no, that's not true" until you've faced people coming up to you and telling you that you are going to burn in hell, telling your children that they are going to burn in hell, firing you because you aren't Christian, etc., etc., etc.

anonemouse · October 10, 2007

Elena...
Atheists tend to lump certain types of Christians in one group and we refer to them as fundies. Fundies to most of us are the type of folks as in the link posted above.

There are quite a few atheists that would disagree with me but I have a hunch Lauren would agree with me about my thoughts on this.

Just as there are Christian fundies there are atheist fundies. They are the type that want to do the thinking for everyone, they want everyone to believe (or lack belief) as they do, anyone who doesn't think and feel as they do are stupid and unable to think on their own, etc. There ARE atheist fundies. Fundies are not a specific religion in my mind, they are a specific mindset, they have a specific way of thinking.

Ron is one of them, he used to post over here but pretty much realized he was out of his league and ran away when he couldn't battle those with a working brain. But the fundies here of either side (believer/non believer) are few and far between.

I agree completely. There are "fundies" of every creed. I, personally, couldn't care less about what someone believes in, as long as they leave me alone.

L8BloomR · October 10, 2007

I respectfully disagree.... I don't think it's necessarily the loudest.... I do agree that is a minority though....
Also, I've heard people from different religions and also atheists speaking with hate in their hearts, I don't think it matters that one says that they believe in a higher power and the other one doesn't ,ultimately they are all wrong for speaking with hate, it's just not right... and I don't think that the religious one should be judged harsher because what their religion stands for and the atheists doesn't need to be judge so harsh because they don't really live by any standards, at least standards coming from a particular religion... so does that mean that atheists could get away with any type of behavior? , shouldn't atheists also live by at least some personal decent standards ? and isn't wrong to speak with hate, period? so IMHO , religious and atheists, they are both doing something wrong in a case like that...and if they are to be judged, which it's not my job for sure.... but if they are, then they should both be judged in the same way...

This is a great answer, Elena! I just have one more thing to add: Why is it that when any other person does something extreme while representing a cause (i.e. The Unibomber/environmentalists, terrorists/Muslims, etc.) we are admonished to not let the few represent the entire group. But if an extremist Christian does something wrong. it is applied to the whole group. If someone shoots at an abortion clinic, we hear that "Christians only care about babies' lives, not about other lives." I hear it again and again, especially on this board. There is never an admonishment to not judge other Christians by the actions of a few.

No group or individual likes to be characterized by a generality, yet Christians have to deal with this more than anyone else, in my opinion.

lawanda jessica · October 10, 2007

I agree mostly. I'm a Unitarian, if you had to put a label on me. God directs no influence on the earth, and all the supernatural stuff taught to us is BS. I do believe in a higher power though, and I believe he will one day reward those who lived a good life. However, he's not going to save one person on this earth who is in trouble. I'm reading Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason" right now...a most excellent book on this subject...George Bush should pick up a copy.

And what supernatural bs are you referring to?

Don't say it's bs because you haven't experienced it for yourself.

Supernatual is a very natural way of life when you are a spiritual person.

Would you believe me if I told you I astral project/lucid dream naturally and I've walked on Water reaching my christ chakra naturally?.

What if I said Jesus walked on Water.< /p>

Would you believe me than?

As I stated GOD dwells within all of us.

Most people don't live long enough to reach their true divinity.

Since Africa is where civilization began.

The kemetian theology was here more than 3000 years before christianity/bible.

All religions have an African/egyptian base to them..

As a matter of fact their have never been any physical remains of the biblical characters but the oldest human remains is an african woman named lucy.

I feel if you chose to believe than you are afraid of the truth.

I want the truth.

To believe and know are two different things.

I believe it will rain tomorrow but I know it rained today.

That's why I am open to others choices.

While I still study beyond what someone tells me to believe.

kagoscuba · October 10, 2007

Burn in hell? Well, hell, me and my wife get that, and we BELIEVE in God. :fish2: I'm Unitarian and my wife is Jewish. I can't count the number of times the "forgivers" have dropped the "hell bomb" on us. Our mantra is: Religion is not the truth; God is the truth. Anything given by man is suspect. Any book that was vetted by man, had entire books (chapters) discarded by man, has been translated many times, and was argued about 600 years after its lead protaganist was killed should not be considered the infallible word of God. A revelation is a revelation to the first person god tells it to. Anything after that is hearsay. It's like the grade-school tell a sentence at the beginning of a line and have everyone whisper it back and see what the last person has to say was the original sentence. Usually, that is a far cry from the original message.