Seriously?

[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why there's so much anger and vitriol instead of compassion and more understanding. None of us get to a place where we need surgery because we've made good choices or had 100% transparency or honesty with ourselves or with others. Sometimes there are issues that run a lot deeper with some folks than others. You just never know a person's background or story.

I also know from my own past (I'm almost nine years out) and many of my friends in the WLS community we all had experiences where when we first had surgery and were doing remarkably well, we felt invincible and full of conviction and top of the world with our choices and actions. It's easy to get to a place of high-ground when you feel that way, which is why I think it's important to remember that it doesn't always stay that way. There are always going to be times when you question others actions, and that's normal and fine. But remember, there are probably others doing the same to you. Extend the same kindness you'd want for yourself.

Being judgemental with each other NEVER helps. Support is not judgemental. Support is support. You're there through the good times and the bad listening, lending an ear, giving the best advice you can through a supportive and encouraging lens that won't further damage someone(s) already struggling.

I'm not required to support or uphold someone on the wrong. Especially not a stranger on the Internet. More specifically ethically and morally I am never going to support someone engaging in dangerous self destructive behavior.

Most of us aren't here to sell things or ourselves so we can conduct ourselves in a manner that is aligned to our beliefs and ethics instead of being fake PC to try and make friends with people that are basically self harming. That is not support, that is enabling.

ALSO THIS IS THE RANTS SECTION. PEOPLE CAN RANT HERE.

[all-in 1]

Sorry for ^^, haven't used this app before and had to test replies. Look, there are conscientious responsible people, and then there are people who are neither. I'm 12 days sleeve postop and took two bites of homemade mac and cheese at 10 days. It came back up, wouldn't go down. Does that make me irresponsible? Maybe. It makes me human. Nobody is perfect. Some of the posters in this thread would prefer to tell me bluntly how stupid I am for doing that, some of the other posters would prefer to tell me it's ok, it happens, just try not to do it again. Again, human. People are different, have different views, attitudes, ways of coping and communicating. Some prefer to be unapologetically blunt, some prefer to be polite. Some people after surgery are going to follow the diet guidelines to the t and criticize anyone who doesn't. Some are going to be more accepting of their own, and other people's mistakes. Human. Not right or wrong, just the differences that make us humans.

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[summerset 5,265]

Please note the section of the board. This is the designated area for ranting and raving.

I'm still having some problems with that. Just because it's Rant & Raves doesn't mean "everything goes" - or does it??

It's one thing to rant & rave about whatever topic but I always get a sour feeling when the rant & rave is about "all of these stupid board members" (and lets face it: there are enough of these threads). I can't really put my finger on why I feel this difference but the later gives me a bad feeling.

During my time on this board I've read lines like "I'd like to see some of these people publicly fail" or that "they didn't deserve surgery" and that just makes me want to scream out loud. It's disgusting.

Even worse, it brings out the mean b**** in my personality. I've even caught myself thinking "I'd really like to see some of those smug, arrogant users fail in the long run. Maybe that will cure them of their superiority-complex! Pride before fall and being a few months or one or two years out give them still pretty much time to fail."

All of these "lets bash stupid users" threads smack of "I'm a better WLS patient than you!" - reminds me of the alcoholic drinking only two bottles of wine a day acting superior towards the alcoholic who drinks two bottles of hard liquor a day. Add in the numerous posts of "good WLS patients" who are eager to post how strict they are following the rules and what really good girls/boys they are (or are going to follow the rules once they had surgery - LOL) and I can only shake my head. Or laugh out loud. Depends on my mood.

---

Oh, and if someone thinks this rant of mine is out of place or something because he or she might not like what I've said: look at the section!

[lore 88]

Reading this and wondering why shelterdog64 seems so focused on what others are doing. We are all addicts and food is our drug of choice and none is better than the next. Live your life and learn to let others travel their own road. I am new to this forum and was disappointed reading ur post. Its very negative and what purpose does it serve. Think about that. Newcomer.

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I'm also a relative newcomer and appreciate the swift kick in the ass. But everyone has a different idea of support. Hopefully you find yours.

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[ShelterDog64 2,364]

Reading this and wondering why shelterdog64 seems so focused on what others are doing. We are all addicts and food is our drug of choice and none is better than the next. Live your life and learn to let others travel their own road. I am new to this forum and was disappointed reading ur post. Its very negative and what purpose does it serve. Think about that. Newcomer.

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Two things: a) this is Rants and Raves...hard to see from a cell phone. I'd offer to you that instead of being disappointed in my opinion, that you look at yourself, see if it applies and either think about what I wrote or move along if it doesn't concern you. Your choice. And welcome to the forum

[ShelterDog64 2,364]

@@summerset **I'm still having some problems with that. Just because it's Rant & Raves doesn't mean "everything goes" - or does it?**

I guess I'd ask you then: if coming here to vent because of the inundation of 'awww, sweetie, you can't control yourself, go ahead and have that moon pie then do better tomorrow' posts isn't appropriate, then what is? What do you see this section being designed for?

I'm not a better WLS patient than anyone else because I own my behaviors, but I do have a better chance of being successful...and that's what it's all about here, isn't it? My frustration was more than clear in my initial post, it's very hard to watch people enable others in their destructive behaviors and be cheered along by that enabling being couched as 'support'.

One thing you and I are in COMPLETE agreement about is the posts that wish failure on others. I'd love to see every single person on BP succeed beyond their wildest dreams, regardless of their behaviors, and I'd never relish a single one of them failing.

[Odie 249]

You know when I see things like people wanting to know if they can have something off their program and then they get sick I often think WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!! Why do you think DR.'s have guidelines. Now I'm not perfect but I can guarantee you nothing went past my lips that was not in the guidelines of my Dr. But the farther out I got the easier it got to try some things. I was told by my Surgeon and Nutritionist that in time there are no forbidden foods. But...we all need to eat in MODERATION!!! Now I'm not saying this works for everyone...it works for me. Let's all play nice!! I'm not saying to coddle people, but remember we are all here for supporting each other.

I'm so glad someone else said this!! I am 2 1/2 years post op with a full bypass. My doctor, nutritionist etc gave me a diet to follow for about 12 weeks and then told me I could eat "normal" food!! They did warn me that soft, high calorie food would cause me to regain some weight. I stay away from that but otherwise eat anything and everything I want! I physically can't eat too much. I am 5 pounds short of my goal weight but have lost more than the goal the doctor gave me. Maybe it is different in Canada? Also our surgeries are covered by our Health Care Plan.

[theantichick 2,204]

Here's my take on it, and as with anything else online, take what works for you and leave the rest.

And this is my 3rd attempt, my computer apparently doesn't want me commenting. LOL.

When I rant, I try to keep it focused on my issues. "I get frustrated by ..." rather than saying "so-and-so is an idiot". I have honestly seen very little in the way of true personal attacks on this board, for which I am grateful.

Here's the issues as I see them.

1. People who want validation for their choices. Frankly, we're all adults here, and I don't get the need for validation or some kind of forgiveness or absolution. I don't feel a need to shame them for their choice, and I don't agree that shaming them is a good response. (Of course, I've seen very little of that.) However, if the people who post "my doctor didn't tell me anything about a post-op diet" actually did not get good information about how to eat post-op, they need to have an opportunity to get better information than nothing. For this to be successful, we cannot continue eating and making choices about eating the way we always have. Saying "from my perspective that wasn't a good choice" is not the same as shaming them. To me, this is a little like AA. You don't see people coming to AA and saying "hey, I had a beer yesterday" and having people respond "that's OK sweetie, we're all human". No. The response is "we're all human, and we make mistakes, but you get that it was a mistake right?" That's not shaming, it's being honest about how their choice fits in.

Note about #1. I don't do low-carb. If I came on the board and posted about eating bread, and had 15 vets go "hon, bread is the devil, you won't be successful that way" I wouldn't feel that they were shaming me or telling me how to eat. That is their experience, and they are the ones who have lived this a heck of a lot longer than I have. They don't know that my eating plan is approved by my doc, all they know is their instructions, and their experience. It would be crappy of me to then start blasting them for sharing what they know in an attempt to help me. And I don't know what I don't know... not restricting carbs may bite me in my ample butt. I may not make goal or be able to maintain because of it. I'll let you know how it goes in another 10 months or so. In the meantime, I don't go around the board slamming vets for preaching low-carb, or trying to preach a non-low-carb diet. I sometimes will point out that not all of us have that option, or we have a different plan from our docs, but I don't get testy about it.

2. People who are reading this board and either don't have a strong surgical team to support them, and read all the coddling posts saying "that's OK, we're all human" or "I did that too, and I'm fine so don't worry" ESPECIALLY WHEN they're talking about early post-op periods. Those of us who are medical professionals or have extensive experience (vets) may feel a responsibility to them to make sure the only voices out there are not the ones saying "don't worry" when there's PLENTY of cause to worry.

As an aside: I'm coming to hate the term "cheating" like LipstickLady. When you're talking about a post-operative (especially for a major stomach surgery) diet progression, it's not "cheating" on a diet. It's violating your post-surgical instructions from your surgical team, and it CAN BE DEADLY. It won't be in the majority of cases, but we have no way to know when it will land someone in the ICU or the morgue, or when it won't. You can choose to deviate from your instructions, you're an adult. But by gosh, I'm not going to let you tell someone else that they shouldn't worry without at least voicing the very real potential for disaster.

3. The rants about it come from the way the vets and those who are trying to be a voice of reason are slammed and attacked for doing so. I have seen vets called mean or judgmental when I read nothing mean or judgmental in their tone, their only crime was refusing to become an echo chamber for the "it's OK sweetie, we're all human, don't worry about it" nonsense.

As a nurse, I'm frankly scared for the people who don't seem to take this surgery as seriously as they need to. That's what I'm hearing from people who start rants like this, as well. We don't want people to fail. We want everyone on this board to succeed. Even if you are a person I just can't stand, I still want you to succeed. Coddling bad choices and normalizing them is NOT the way to help those who are serious about this succeed.

(stepping off the soapbox)

[kiwijet 56]

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[Julie norton 2,850]

Most of us are doing the best we can with our own program. I cannot reinforce horrible choices.

But we all have choices to make, don't we?

Amazing the defensive behavior that is seen here.

You do your program, and unless you specifically ask, we will try to help....most of us wish you success, it is an everyday job for me to keep my Protein Water and exercise going. Some days are better than others...

That piña colada...

[jeanne hayes 1]

Just spent an hour of my life I'll never get back reading in the Pre-/Post-Op Sleeve forums and I'm amazed by what people will still, even as they're undertaking MAJOR SURGERY, say to justify their behavior.

There are people about to have most of their stomach removed who say "I don't have a problem with food". Say what?? I'm pretty sure the Fat Fairy didn't put all this weight on any of us, right? "I couldn't stop myself". Yes, you could have...you DIDN'T. "Everyone does it". No, they don't. YOU did.

As I'm typing this out, it's clear that I'm fed up with the lack of ownership of behavior. It's odd to watch fat people trying to float the same justifications here that they've used for years with other people. Walking into a group of fat people and saying "I don't have a problem with food" is pretty ridiculous...that dog just won't hunt here. If you can't be honest with yourself and a group of people much like yourself, how can you succeed with WLS? The non-ownership of our own actions and capabilities is what got many (most?) of us to where we are and it kills me that there are people STILL wallowing in the 'I don't control myself' pool who are getting WLS. What a waste.

Let's cut out the BULLSHIT! I'd like a place to chat with others, be honest about my thoughts no judgement with out negative comments where people that are contemplating WLS, get medical info., pre-/post-op, had WLS a few years ago or more, had more then 1 WLS, get true education about the real reality for most & say their REAL TRUTH about their struggles with wght, bad habits, exedra. I think everyone always starts out with good intentions with hopes maybe this time they can do it or with LUCK maybe be a success instead of their usual failurs. Personally I thought about it like gambling & new my odds where extremely low. My truth is I really wanted WLS to work but was SO, still I'm SO desperate for it to work even if I fail as usual I will say what the dr.s or anyone else wants to hear just so I can get the WLS & worry about the consequence's later. Maybe all the self positive talking bullshit coming out of my mouth will do something to my brain & be a success eventually Even if I just lose some weight I'm better off than I was. Just a short sum of my history with WLS 1st had lap-band 10 yrs ago & recently had removed & had the gastric sleeve done 2 wks ago it's been hard on me the past 10 yrs mental, emotionally, physically & also affected others close to me. I did have some positive times when I felt good, was healthier when lbs did come off, did some major yo- yoing at times. No matter whats in my future with this recent WLS I'm not in denial. All I HAVE IS HOPE & PREY that I get healthier, not focus on what should my BMI be. I learned some things the hard way from my 1st WLS that differently may help me a bit this time around. I've got experience, I'm more realistic about my expectations most important I CAN'T QUITE TRYING I have a 9 yr old daughter I love that needs me around for a long time.

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[Military Ma 27]

I am new here and shocked by your posts, I find it hard to believe some of the things I have read. Why would you put yourself through all of this to still make excuses and LIE. I was told I was overweight my whole life. From my teen years on. The irony.... I WAS FAR FROM IT. My voices from my childhood said otherwise. My first husband became one of those. As I look back I was underweight, I have and HAD HORRIFIC EATING HABITS. The realization of this comes now when I am CLEARLY OBESE. I weighed 121lbs on nutrisystem as my husband (at the time) made fun of my fat body. After my third child I weighed 141lbs and was so insecure I would not eat. Now 24 years later that insecurity and all of those bad habits took a toll. Now 120lbs overweight I know this is my doing. I never ate , my current husband has loved me and supported me through it all. NEVER ONCE SAYING ANYTHING NEGATIVE about this large person he is now married to. He married me 130lbs ago and the only time my weight has ever been an issue was when I was 112lbs. I did this no one else. I did not eat or make sure I took care of myself. When that light bulb kicked on , the damage had been done. I eat and I store it. I have been on every diet, tired anything and everything to lose weight. I no longer care about the weight I CARE ABOUT MY HEALTH. I am Pre-Diabetic and terrified of what I have done to myself. This is a chance to reverse the damage I have caused. TO LIVE A HEALTHY AND HAPPY LIFE. To grow old with the man I love, HOW CAN YOU IGNORE SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE DONE , no one forced you to eat certain foods, place coins or weights in your pockets. THOSE ARE THE REASONS YOU ARE WHERE YOU ARE AND YOU WILL BE RIGHT BACK HERE IF YOU REFUSE TO EXCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR CHOICES!

[thatmeanone 240]

Cgcbgmhgmvvy

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[Joy@boman 151]

The thing is it is not anyone's place to judge other people. Lots of anger here. Its really none of your business unless you are asked for advice. Because speaking of honesty I do not believe half the people when they say they do not cheat or mess up and brag about how perfect they are. Lies. 60% of people mess up because we are human and we have issues with food. And every site i have read says do not become obsessive with never having a grain of sugar or you will burn out and regain. Stop pushing your agenda on other people. If they fail it is on them. If they ask for your help go ahead. This new America where everyone attacks everyone else and talks about how perfect they are makes me sick. Positive encouragement is all you can do. I have been only able to eat very small calories and havnt lost weight yet as I am two weeks out. I have to believe in the system. But people have no idea why other people get the surgery. Worry about your own self! This mean kid online mentality is cowardly and ridiculous.

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[LipstickLady 25,682]

The thing is it is not anyone's place to judge other people. Lots of anger here. Its really none of your business unless you are asked for advice. Because speaking of honesty I do not believe half the people when they say they do not cheat or mess up and brag about how perfect they are. Lies. 60% of people mess up because we are human and we have issues with food. And every site i have read says do not become obsessive with never having a grain of sugar or you will burn out and regain. Stop pushing your agenda on other people. If they fail it is on them. If they ask for your help go ahead. This new America where everyone attacks everyone else and talks about how perfect they are makes me sick. Positive encouragement is all you can do. I have been only able to eat very small calories and havnt lost weight yet as I am two weeks out. I have to believe in the system. But people have no idea why other people get the surgery. Worry about your own self! This mean kid online mentality is cowardly and ridiculous.

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Wait, whuuuuuuut? Who's offering unsolicited advice? What on earth are you talking about? Every response I've seen is in direct reaction to a question posed. No one is one here just throwing our diet plans and opinions all willy nilly. No "agendas" are being "pushed".

And for the record. I didn't "cheat" pre or post op. No lie. That doesn't make me better than anyone. I was simply determined to be successful this time around. I eat sugar from time to time, never said I don't. I really have no idea who are what you are lashing out about.