Intimacy

[gadgetlady 4]

I'm in a waiting room right now waiting for an unfill , but I'll see if I can get my husband to join LBT and chime in on this subject when I get home.

[areellady 1]

Gosh, I just have to chime back in this thread since the porno word had been brought up.

I know that men look at women. It is in their blood and we as women can not and will not stop them from doing so. The fact that some of these men are saying that looking at and downloading porno is a "hobby" is very bothersome to me. Then to add insult to injury, you as the women, are saying it doesn't bother you when he does look at it.

Of course it bothers you!!!! If it didn't you would not be here talking about it. Porn is a self indulgent, addicting, selfish act for someone to take upon themselves to call a "hobby". If you, as the wife, are completely left feeling alone and unloved, then it needs to stop. The problem with porn is that most men, if they are that deep into it, can not stop on their own. If it is coming between you and your spouse, if it is taking time that you and your spouse can be together being intimate, then it is a huge problem.

When my son was growing up, as a teenager, I didn't even allow girlie pictures to be hung in his room. It has nothing to do with religion or morals. It has to do with young boys thinking that women are to be masterbated to and to be thought of as only sex objects, that is and was my objection.

This is a very evil world we live in and since the internet has been introduced into it, it is sooo much worse. It makes me so very sad that you are being made into the bad person with the problem. YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM!! Other than your husband can't take his eyes off of these fake internet bodies and focus on you. But, you are not at fault and you most certainly do not have a problem, he does!!!

[gadgetlady 4]

LOL! Tell us how you really feel, Deanna {bwg}

I'll tell you how *I* really feel. For me, in my marriage, I consider porn to be adultery. If my husband were going elsewhere for sex, whether that be a photo, the internet, a hooker, or the next-door neighbor, I would consider it adultery. And my husband agrees.

[areellady 1]

Gadget,

Sorry!!! Sometimes I get too wound up!!

I totally agree with you though.

I wonder what men who consider this porno a hobby would do if their wives started hanging out with the guys after work, just as a "hobby". It doesn't mean anything, just hanging out with five or six men. Not doing anything, just there spending time with them, enjoying what they look like, what they do.

The women is these situations always are made to feel like the bad person, the untrusting one, the one with the problem. It really makes me super mad!!!! These women do not have a problem, except that their men are treating them like shit!!! Our men should treat us like the queens that we are, and until we as women demand that and expect it, I am afraid we are not going to get it.

I honestly can't say what it would feel like to have my DH turn me down for an internet whore. I really don't know the feeling, but I do know that I would not stand for it.

[BJean 16]

You were talking about approaching the subject again this weekend with your husband. I have a suggestion. Instead of going into it all wounded and feeling rejected by his "hobby", why don't you consider trying to find out what really makes porn surfing be so much fun for him? Why not try to get him to really open up to you and explain why it is so important to him? I mean have a dialogue with him as if you were a good buddy, instead of his wife.

And reserve judgement. Don't pout or squirm or accuse him of anything untoward. Try, just one time, to be his friend on the subject of this "thing" that is so important to him. Stop thinking about how YOU feel about it and try to learn exactly what HE thinks about it. Stop thinking about how it is impacting YOU and think about WHY the time he spends with porn is an integral part of his life.

You could learn a lot about what you're up against. You might be able to determine if this is something that, given the right circumstances, he can give up. On the other hand, if it really is an addiction that is nearly impossible for him to give up, you need to know that too. If it is the latter, then you will know for sure that nothing you say or do will change his behavior. You will know for sure that you need professional help in knowing how to save your marriage and your husband.

Hypothetically take the actual word pornography out of the equation and substitute it for almost any other word that describes destructive and addictive behavior and I think you can understand better what you are probably up against.

Look at it like this: what if you had a gambling addiction? What if your gambling addiction was causing you to neglect your husband and children? What if your gambling addiction caused you to adversly impact the family because of the money you lost? What if your husband was at the end of his rope and was depressed and accused you of not loving him and of ignoring his needs? But you couldn't help yourself... you just HAD to gamble.

In that case, would you want your husband to give up on you or would you hope that he loved you enough to help you beat it - for your own good as well as that of your family?

[Darragha 0]

A long time ago, when I was young and dumb, I married a man, who when presented with this choice, "It's either you go to treatment or we get a divorce. What's it gonna be? Marijuana or me?"

He chose marijuana. It's not easy to share your life with someone when there's a third party hanging around. Addiction makes a poor bed partner. Side note: I'm glad I'm not married to him! It's been 20 years since we split up!

It's easier to stay stoned than deal with marriage troubles.

It's easier to get numb (because the titillation ends at some point and you just want and need more more more) looking at internet porn than it is make love to another person. Sharing yourself is hard!

Porno is a destroyer of the beauty of conjugal bliss.

[BJean 16]

Darragha: For the record, I agree with you about porn and the weed. However if you love someone and have pledged your life to them, you really should try to help them if there is any reasonable way to do it. If you honestly do your best to help them through it, and they resist kicking the habit, then fine, grab your walking boots.

[TerriDoodle 6]

These last few posts are just chuck full o' wisdom! Women rock.

[Darragha 0]

grab your walking boots

I wore them proudly and kicked his sorry rear end out the door He later went to treatment. And failed. Then beat up his current girlfriend. When he got out of jail, she beat him up. By then, I was with my current husband (18 years!)

Darr

[gadgetlady 4]

OK, gadgetlady reporting in here. I asked my dh to create a username at LBT as "that's.mr.gadgetlady.to.you" but he declined, wanting to use my name instead. So I'm turning over my keyboard . . .

-----------------------------

I'm sad to report that in the last 20 years I've gotten used to seeing bare-breasted women tattooed on the arms of men at 7-11, "skin industries" decals on the backs of vehicles driving down the road, and, worst of all, women in their 40's who have had breast implants, liposuction, lip enlargement, and who-knows-what-else done to their bodies, not because they think it makes them look more beautiful, but because they feel that is the only way to get noticed in this day and age.

When I first discovered pornography, I knew it was bad. Instinctively, I knew it was something that I shouldn't be looking at. And I would be willing to bet that 95% of American men had the same reaction and they just "denied their way" into a belief system that it's OK. Tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel good about something, but that doesn't make it OK. If you're a single man and you don't ever plan on getting married, and you're absolutely certain that you can never become a rapist or a serial killer, then I say "knock yourself out". Get season tickets to the Playboy Mansion and write letters to Larry Flint telling him how wonderful his product is. But for every other man out there, if you think it's not affecting the way you look at women, you're living a lie.

I want to address the "sex is just a physical release for men" issue. There's a big difference between a guy who lives alone, has no one to be intimate with, and feels the need to find "release", and the man who has a wife who sleeps right next to him every night. Unless for some strange reason she has actually encouraged him to go and "find release", then he's fooling himself if he thinks she doesn't crave his affection. And what may seem to him like a harmless "release" will actually have a great affect a couple of hours later or a few days later on the amount of desire he has for her.

Unfortunately, most men were exposed to the idea (as young boys) that sex was this thing you try to get away with with someone cute when no one's looking. It's treated in the same manner as underaged drinking. It's this fun thing you get away with, you do it for selfish reasons, you do it because other people are doing it, you do it because you think it's cool. It all seems so harmless to approach things this way. But in the end, what you get in many men is a "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am" mentality. And that's just not what it is, what it should be, or what it's intended for. So yes, some many may believe sex is just for physical release, but that's because that's what they've been conditioned to think.

I hope that helps you ladies! I'm turning the computer back over to gadgetlady.

[BJean 16]

Mr Gadget: That was terrific. I appreciate very much your taking the time to express your manly thoughts on this. Of course you're right on!

However it would be great if you would weigh in with advice on how some of the wives here should help their spouses get their heads (pardon) back in the real game instead of escaping into their fantasy world all the time.

[areellady 1]

Mr. Gadget,

Thank you for the reply. That was awesome!!!! You state exactly how I feel about this subject.

Why would a man WANT to look at fantasy if he has the real thing next to him? Is is because he can not make himself find beauty in the real woman he is with compared to the porn queens online????

I wonder if a man is soo deeply rooted in porn and has been for many many years how he comes out of that?

[Darragha 0]

Well, said Mr. Gadget.

Darr

[ssankofa73 2]

How soon after being banded did you start having sex again?

[IMFine 0]

I haven't had sex yet, but am ready, willing, and able just the minute my head pulls himself away from his "hobby".