PBS special "The Mormons" made me furious!

JeninCO · May 8, 2007

... PBS didn't go into the widespread practice of forcing little girls to have sex with old men, and into polygamy, because that's not "officially" part of the Mormon religion, but that too makes me mad.

Mormons no longer practice polygamy and are appalled at the splinter groups who do. I'm an ex-Mormon and do not agree with the Church, but this is one myth that must be stopped.

Most Mormons I know are great people, pretty tolerant and very, very kind. Much kinder than the hypocritical evangelical Xians who condemn them. I don't agree with their religion or their politics anymore (I did at one time) but I do think people should be judged on their individual merits, not condemned by stereotypes.

I think all religion should be stopped. It corrupts and hurts far more than it helps.

WASaBubbleButt · May 8, 2007

Most Mormons I know are great people, pretty tolerant and very, very kind. Much kinder than the hypocritical evangelical Xians who condemn them. I don't agree with their religion or their politics anymore (I did at one time) but I do think people should be judged on their individual merits, not condemned by stereotypes.
I think all religion should be stopped. It corrupts and hurts far more than it helps.

Hear hear!

I don't think people typically have problems with the people regardless of belief, it's the organized religion that is such a horror.

WASaBubbleButt · May 8, 2007

Mormons no longer practice polygamy and are appalled at the splinter groups who do. I'm an ex-Mormon and do not agree with the Church, but this is one myth that must be stopped.

BTW, regarding the above.

Mormons have to understand that their "splinter" groups are still Mormon, just like the crappy Catholics are still Catholic, and the crappy atheists are still atheist. I have a real problem when one group decides if another group is of their religion or not. It's none of their business. It is between the person and their God. ... Or no God as the case may be. Again, this is where "religion" butts into the lives of others. Take away organized religion and I think most would have a great deal more spirituality.

areellady · May 9, 2007

oh my god Sunta..I thought I was gonna die laughing when I read that...please tell....please....oh shit...that was funny...well, the funny underwear they talk about wearing...its symbolic of something WHAT?? that you are mormon...you always know the temple married people cuz their shorts go down to their knees..but they think that you cant see their garments...(thats what the funny underwear is called) but EVERYONE can see them...they like it when people see them. It gives them some sort of "one up on you" attitude... i know my DH family wears them.....Sunta..you are too funny...Deanna

areellady · May 9, 2007

oh and another thing...the polygamy didnt stop until one of "THE PROPHETS" decided or sorry...had a divine prophecy ....to stop all polygamy...what a coincidence...polygamy stopped at the time that people were NOT joining the church because they thought the teachings to be TOO WEIRD!!!! HHHMMM.......Weird is not EVEN the word....

Sunta · May 9, 2007

oh and another thing...the polygamy didnt stop until one of "THE PROPHETS" decided or sorry...had a divine prophecy ....to stop all polygamy...

That "prophet" was probably Gay and didn't want one wife, let alone fifteen!

When I watched the special on Mormons, I swear I never saw such a group of Gay-seeming men. I read afterward that that alot of Mormon men act very effeminate (a disclaimer: I am NOT stating that all Gay men act effeminate! Just "some" and believe me, I know tons).

Why do they act so feminized?

Kat817 · May 9, 2007

Back in the 70's my former husband and I ended up in SLC for his job. I should qualify this by saying he was a baptised member of the Mormon church. He attended as a youth, with a friend, was scared so bad during the baptism or some part of it, he never returned. His being Mormon was enough for the new boss, he promised us housing, etc. We arrive, he finds out I am a Methodist, not a Mormon, and flat out refused to speak to me! He recinded the offer of the housing, we were left in a car and a U Haul truck for the night, in a very unfriendly city! We rented an apartment the next day....I was turned away from 17 listed apartments, because I was not Mormon!! His boss called him into the office the first day, and said he had discussed our situation, and they felt the right thing to do was to have our marriage annulled. He could work towards his mission (?) while I joined the church, and then we could be properly joined in the Temple. When we refused that---he was given every crap job in the place! I was not allowed to come to his job even! Groups of women would come to the door, to pray, and I had one spit on my doormat when told I was not a Mormon! His boss set me up....told my ex he needed to get his uniform shirts at a store downtown called ZCMI----a store I as a non mormon was not allowed to shop in!

I have met many nice people of the Mormon faith here in New Mexico where I now live. I would not however for any reason ever return to SLC. I have lived in many, many places-----8 states, and 3 countries with DH's job---and never been treated as poorly as I was in SLC. And we even lived in an area deemed so unsafe in Nigeria, we were not allowed off of compound without guards---and I was treated with more respect!

The experience I personally had with Mormonism in SLC, was not christian in any way, shape or form. I found it very sad.

Kat

anonemouse · May 9, 2007

Back in the 70's my former husband and I ended up in SLC for his job. I should qualify this by saying he was a baptised member of the Mormon church. He attended as a youth, with a friend, was scared so bad during the baptism or some part of it, he never returned. His being Mormon was enough for the new boss, he promised us housing, etc. We arrive, he finds out I am a Methodist, not a Mormon, and flat out refused to speak to me! He recinded the offer of the housing, we were left in a car and a U Haul truck for the night, in a very unfriendly city! We rented an apartment the next day....I was turned away from 17 listed apartments, because I was not Mormon!! His boss called him into the office the first day, and said he had discussed our situation, and they felt the right thing to do was to have our marriage annulled. He could work towards his mission (?) while I joined the church, and then we could be properly joined in the Temple. When we refused that---he was given every crap job in the place! I was not allowed to come to his job even! Groups of women would come to the door, to pray, and I had one spit on my doormat when told I was not a Mormon! His boss set me up....told my ex he needed to get his uniform shirts at a store downtown called ZCMI----a store I as a non mormon was not allowed to shop in!
I have met many nice people of the Mormon faith here in New Mexico where I now live. I would not however for any reason ever return to SLC. I have lived in many, many places-----8 states, and 3 countries with DH's job---and never been treated as poorly as I was in SLC. And we even lived in an area deemed so unsafe in Nigeria, we were not allowed off of compound without guards---and I was treated with more respect!

The experience I personally had with Mormonism in SLC, was not christian in any way, shape or form. I found it very sad.

Kat

I'm pissed off for you. That's sickening behavior. Unless I get an amazing job or grad school offer, there is absolutely no way I will ever go live in Utah. Heck, that state may even be higher than Texas on my "no way in HELL" list.

anonemouse · May 9, 2007

To be honest, I've had a bad taste in my mouth about Mormons ever since my former roommate got married (and subsequently divorced). She married into a Mormon family. She converted to LDS when they were first dating, just so that she could date him. The guy came from a large family. The family was very disfunctional, which stemmed (in my view, at least) from the controlling aspect of the religion. In my experience, the more you try to control someone, the more they try to break free. Anyway, the guy was the most immature boy I have ever met. He went straight from living with Mommy and Daddy to living with his new wife. He was very conflicted about his beliefs, and he rebelled against them pretty much any time he was with my friend. I think this conflict made him very passive-aggressive, depressed, etc. He expected my friend to wait on him for everything, even when they weren't yet married. She did his laundry. She made him meals. He made her get up to get him refills of meals and drinks. I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture. He was raised to believe that men are waited on hand and foot by women. He was the ultimate mamma's boy. Unfortunately, he never got the teaching that men are supposed to support their families. Once they were married, he moved in with my friend and refused to do house work, refused to go back to college (he was maybe a year away from graduating), and refused to get a job. He just sat there and played video games and played on the computer. Obviously, it wasn't a huge shock when my friend separated from him after 6 months and was officially divorced from him the day before their first anniversary.

leatha_g · May 9, 2007

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but part of what you said is that there are both internal and external causes of depression. It's not all hereditary/chemical. And I think having 8 children can be phenomenally stressful, especially in a world where you are also expected to be subservient, to be the perfect housekeeper, and to willingly (if not eagerly) sacrifice all your own needs for respect, appreciation, and self-fulfillment.
I'm not saying all Mormons are bad and wrong. I'm just saying that the religious life, in general, is usually much tougher on women than it is on men. Women have the same needs men do for respect within the society, creative expression, self fulfillment in career and in family life. Yet with 8 kids and a demanding, insensitive, chauvinistic husband, it can be pretty tough to avoid some of the "externally" caused depression you mentioned in your post.

When a women's soul is crushed and she is left without respect and appreciation, the woman loses, of course. But the truth is, all of society loses. Men certainly lose. There is no way a man can be truly happy if his wife is desparate and unhappy. And in contrast, there is no greater force for good on this planet than a happy woman.

Amen! I totally agree with you!

Carlene · May 9, 2007

My only personal contact with Mormons was 3 young men doing their mission work. I was the director of a multi-denomination social service agency and these darling, clean cut Mormon boys showed up to ask if they could help in any way. They sorted donations, bagged food from the pantry, swept the parking lot - anything there was to do, and they did it with joyful purpose. I had almost no Christian youths volunteer during my 15 years with the agency, in spite of the fact that we were sponsored by over 50 Christian churches. Thousands of Christian young people and maybe a dozen showed up to help with this ministry.

One of my "Christian" volunteers - an older woman who was conspicuous for her grumpiness - complained about the Mormon boys. She believed the Mormon church to be a cult. I rescheduled her so that she did not have to rub shoulders with the 3 "heathen" boys.

These young men cheerfully answered questions about their faith and offered much insight into its beliefs. During their mission, BTW, they were allowed one phone call home - on Mother's Day. The dressed impeccably in white shirts and ties and rode bikes (in the Texas heat) because the person in charge of the mission trip did not feel that they needed a car, since there were only 3 of them. This was not a complaint, but merely an explanation. I have never met more respectful, dedicated, and genuinely HAPPY young men. If they are representative of the Mormon church, I can find absolutely nothing wrong with it.

sweethot143 · May 9, 2007

oh and another thing...the polygamy didnt stop until one of "THE PROPHETS" decided or sorry...had a divine prophecy ....to stop all polygamy...
That "prophet" was probably Gay and didn't want one wife, let alone fifteen!

When I watched the special on Mormons, I swear I never saw such a group of Gay-seeming men. I read afterward that that alot of Mormon men act very effeminate (a disclaimer: I am NOT stating that all Gay men act effeminate! Just "some" and believe me, I know tons).

Why do they act so feminized?

Why are you so mean? Actually the President of the Church at the time Wilford Woodruff stopped poligamy, I don't remember the exact reason why, but I think it had to do with the fact it became illegal in the country at the time. That Prophet is actually a direct decendent of one of my bestfriends. He was not gay and it probably took a lot of courage to go against what the people at the time had known to be true. I'm sure he got a lot of crap for that. Polygamy was practiced in the Bible for a reason and during early Mormon times for a reason. I'm just happy I was not alive and a member back then, I know it's not for me, and to me kind of contradicts everything i've been taught about the sacred marriage between a man a woman. From what i understand it was not a sexual thing at all, and a lot of men at time were being killed off and leaving large families behind that needed to be provided for. So some men not all men were allowed to take on more one wife and support those families. It wasn't a sexual thing.

What do you mean by feminized? Is it that they are sensitive and kind? Or that they are not covered in tattoos and crushing beer cans on their head and walking around in a drunken haze? Or is they don't use cuss words, and that they treat others with respect?

I just had a good friend of mine (non-mormon) tell me that she wishes that she could find a guy like my husband. My sister has told me that a hundred times as well. They like that he is a family man, doesn't drink or smoke, lives to spend time with his family, and obviously has a close relationship with God. He attributes that to his Mormon upbringing and what he learned from watching his Father.

Sunta · May 9, 2007

Why are you so mean?

I don't understand. Are you saying that calling someone "Gay seeming" or "feminine" is mean?

See, I don't think of it as insulting or mean to say that someone is Gay or that they act feminine.

I guess if you knew the wide variety of Gay men that I do, you would start to see some similar patterns in some of them. While some Gay men are very masculine, others are very feminine, and some are right down the middle. But I have never met a straight man who was actually straight, who acted effeminate, because they always turn out to be Gay.

I think you know what I mean by effeminate. I think you probably have seen some depictions on tv or mabe even know some people who seem "swishy" or fay. Of course not all Gay men are like that, (in fact I know some who do crush beer cans on their head and love sports, etc.) but some of them are for sure. They even joke about it with each other and will say "oh you're such a girl!" or "stop being such a poof" (that's the British version). In fact, there is some backlash within the Gay community against men who act "too effeminate". Here's a link to a great book (written by a Gay man) about this:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Sissyphobia-Gay-Men-Effeminate-Behavior/dp/1560239905]Amazon.com: Sissyphobia: Gay Men and Effeminate Behavior: Tim Bergling: Books[/ame]

Well, the men I saw on this special just came off as being very feminized and actually, when I talked to some of my Gay friends about it who had also seen it, we were cracking up because they thought the same thing on their own!

I think it's wonderful for men to be sensitive and to be in touch with their feminine side, but when they're very in touch with it to the point they act "poofy" then they usually turn out to be Gay.

And, there is nothing wrong with any of these things whatsoever, and I don't consider it to be an insult in any way to say that a man acts feminine or that he might be Gay.

bitteroldhag · May 10, 2007

While many Mormon practices may seem strange to non-Mormons, I suspect that many of the practices of old churches seem as strange. Many protestants don't understand how a Catholic can go to confession and get a clean slate. Many other don't quite understand why protestant religions stress the angry God of the Old Testament. As a Unitarian, I have a problem with the idea that the crackers and grape juice/wine of the communion is actually the body and blood of Christ. Isn't that cannibalism? All religions have little quirks and I don't think we should judge religions without plenty of information. Besides, I have had a lot of Mormon friends, and I just loved them. They never made a big thing of me being a Unitarian though the Southern Baptists did. They won't associate with our pastor in the inter-church organization in town. The Mormons, Catholics, Methodists and Episcopalians had no problem with our minister. Personally, I have a lot more problems with Southern Baptists than with Mormons.