If you still struggle afterwards, why do it?

[NtvTxn 1,262]

I'm sorry. I meant to ask how grams of carbs NtvTxn has per day.

I have NO idea, seriously! Dr. Davidson does not focus or have his patients count carbs UNLESS the patient isn't losing, then it is an issue. I've never had a problem, so it's never been discussed after the seminar. I religiously track my calories and Protein. I'm sorry!!!!!

[NtvTxn 1,262]

I'm nearly 5 months out so not the Veteran you are looking for, and I hope some of our long termers like Lauraven, Gmanbat and some of those very eloquent long term "slow" losers (whose monikers i cant recall right now) wade into this with their words of wisdom. Thanks to Ntvtxn for her response (although I am dead jealous of someone who doesn't struggle).

I know you're not asking us why we did this or why you should do this, but rather why do this if long term the outcome is the same. It's a good question, particularly for younger people, that should probably be considered more before we throw ourselves into getting otherwise healthy bits of our body chopped out.... often at great risk and cost.

I lost 20kg in 2 months without really trying, and another 2 kg in the 3 months since, so I think it's fair to say I'm struggling. I've just had a load of blood tests so am hoping to find out there's something medical going on that can be rectified. I'm also suffering from really severe reflux now, and that makes me want to eat "slider foods" that soothe my very sore throat and oesophagus. All in all, life isn't super fantastic right now, but I hope my dr will be able to solve these problems.

Do I regret my surgery? NO WAY. I feel amazingly better 22kg lighter, though still need to lose another 10kg. I feel like I've "re-set" myself - which is not the same as feeling transformed I hasten to add.

My head is still my head, and I like food and tend to comfort eating when I'm down, same as before. I badly needed restriction and to get my appetite under control, but I think the latter is more about low carbs than the sleeve per se (for me at least). My dr and dietician also say it seems I need to eat less than 800 cal/day to lose weight and 1000 to maintain - far lower than most and than I'd have believed, but I've since noted on these posts that I'm certainly not alone in that.

If I had known the calorie restriction I should be on and the power of a low carb diet on my appetite I might have tried harder - I did lose weight with these mechanisms before but always regained quickly. That this still happens now has made me realise there really is no way out of these strategies for me - a useful but hard won insight.

I can see that I've changed v significantly in terms of my expectations of portion size, and that's terrific. Eating a whole pizza was so easy to do before and now the thought is distasteful on so many levels. One or 2 (or more likely a couple of bites of a second piece) is more than enough and there's no lack of satisfaction as I watch the family tuck away more, whereas there used to be when I tried to restrict myself even a little.

I feel more in control - not completely under control - and have great hope for the issues I have being resolved and those next 10kg getting the attention they need. I don't expect it to be easy but previously I felt helpless, and trapped inside a body that didn't feel like mine anymore. I think that's the key to deciding on drastic action like this.

Now hopefully more vets will tell us how it is to struggle 2, 3 and 4 years out, and whether it still seems worth it to have gone through the pain, costs and risks of the sleeve.

Thanks for asking such a pertinent question. It's of value to us all, even to those of already sleeved and struggling, as we try to work out strategies to shift us from "unsuccessful" or "somewhat successful" to "successful and satisfied".

Good luck with your decision and your weight loss journey, however you decide to embark on it.

You have a realistic view of what it's all about. Don't be jealous, I'm just really obsessive! I do tell people at support groups that I am successful, TODAY. For all of us, it's one day at a time. In the back of my mind, I am scared of waking up tomorrow with a ravenous hunger and weighing 25 lbs more than I did the night before.

I am living what your doctor said to you, close to it. When I was losing, I averaged 400 - 650 calories per day, the last month I was getting 700 - 800, never over 800. I maintain at 1300. My doctor didn't give me that number though. After I reached goal, I was told to increase my calories, but that I'd have to play with the amount to see what worked for me. It's a fine line between gaining, losing and maintaining.

Great post!

[marfar7 1,533]

I think the same thing when I read some peoples posts. Many are OBSESSED with every calorie, every carb, every gm of Protein they put in their mouths. I was so tired off dieting, its why I had wls in the 1st place. If I have to diet for the rest of my life then ur right, why bother taking out 85% of my stomach?

I started with the lapband almost 4 yrs ago. Lost 104 lbs and was 9 lbs from goal. Loved my band. Until my frequent vomiting caused it to slip. Then I hated my band. Everything I ate either hurt or made me vomit. Even after having it totally unfilled and gaining 30 lbs in 18 mths, I still vomited often. It was my choice. To either have it out and do it myself or have it out with another wls. I already proved I can't be trusted with keeping the weignt off myself. I decided against RNY because of the side effects (knew Id never be able to stick with the diet 100% of the time to avoid dumping). That left the sleeve. I was worried that taking 85% of my stomach was crazy. God put it in there for a reason. But the risk was worth it to me.

12 wks ago I got my revision, all at the same time. It took my dr an exgra 30 minutes to dig my band outa my stomach. Post op recovery wasn't easy. Very painful. Weightloss has been slow, really slow. I knew it would be cuz I started at 174. But its ridiculously slow. Could I speed up the loss by watching every bite I put into my mouth? Probly. But that's the reason I got wls in the 1st place. I'm never dieting again. I eat whatever I want (in very tiny portions, however) except ice cream (major tummy troubles)). I eat bread, rice, Pasta, and potatoes. While I can only eat 4-6 fries, if u told me I could never have them again Id be really sad. As I said I'm losing really slowly, but I'm happy. Happy to not count everything that goes into my mouth.

So, should u get the sleeve or not? Can't tell u that. I can say that there r some of us that don't diet and still manage to lose. How can u not? Losing 85% of ur stomach, ur bound to lose. While yes, u can regain eating sliders (things that go right thru, don't stick), the probability is lower than regaining without the sleeve. So, is it worth it to me to long for a full Thanksgiving dinner but only be able to eat 8 bites of dinner? Absolutely. I do occasioanlly mourn the AMOUNT of food I can eat, I. Don't mlurn WHAT I eat. In fact, its quit empowering. Its amazing how little it takes to keep u alive.

Good luck with ur decision.

[NurseGrace 509]

There is no magic wand to weight loss. For me, the reason I did it was for consistency. It was something I lacked prior to surgery... I could do any stupid diet for a month or two, and then it was back to the same old same old. Now, I CANNOT have binge days, because I would be so uncomfortable I would be forced to vomit, and thats just not something I can subject myself too.

It's hard to believe when your post op that you can have so much of your stomach removed and STILL struggle to get to goal, but that's how it is for most people. It's normal. Don't look into this surgery thinking your not going to have to fight and muscle your way through it.

[Healthygal 50]

There is no magic wand to weight loss. For me, the reason I did it was for consistency. It was something I lacked prior to surgery... I could do any stupid diet for a month or two, and then it was back to the same old same old. Now, I CANNOT have binge days, because I would be so uncomfortable I would be forced to vomit, and thats just not something I can subject myself too.

It's hard to believe when your post op that you can have so much of your stomach removed and STILL struggle to get to goal, but that's how it is for most people. It's normal. Don't look into this surgery thinking your not going to have to fight and muscle your way through it.

No, I had no thought at all that there wasn't going to be work involved. What had originally bothered me was that some long-time sleever people's posts spoke of just being absolutely miserable trying to keep their weight from going back up. When I read that, it made me really wonder what the justification was for having such a major surgery in the first place if it still felt like THAT in the long haul. I needed to have it explained to me exactly what was the "tool" doing in that fight, because I wasn't seeing it in some of those posts. There'd be no reason to have such a drastic surgery if 6 years later you felt exactly the same way you did when you started out. People have helped me understand much better in this thread.

I'm a nurse, too! Currently working towards my BSN and then NP, so that was even more reason to understand the long-term viability of the sleeve. Glad to have your input.

[CowgirlJane 14,261]

Well I think people forget that they struggled even harder pre sleeve. In my case I battled to stay under 300#, now I work to stay at goal. It is easier now with the sleeve tool and I have a better life.

[Healthygal 50]

Well I think people forget that they struggled even harder pre sleeve. In my case I battled to stay under 300#, now I work to stay at goal. It is easier now with the sleeve tool and I have a better life.

Yes, I'd much rather work to keep at my goal weight than work my ass off to try to get 100 pounds off when I never get there and I end up with more to lose when I'm done! This is like a redo. I think most people who keep slim and fit DO have to work to keep it there. Most slim people seem to be doing some sort of exercise and certainly they avoid some kinds of foods. So it's no different, I would suppose. That kind of struggling I can deal with.

It's really weird...all during high school I was over 200 pound. The lowest I ever got myself to go with extreme dieting and loads of biking was 165. I wonder if that's basically where I'll have to stop with the sleeve, too? Guess we'll see.

[moonlitestarbrite 902]

not to hijack this thread, but i wonder the same thing. i have always been happy with 150-160, which is 30 pounds more than i m "supposed" to weigh. i still have 30 more pounds to go, i guess i shouldnt think about it too much about it! lol

[NtvTxn 1,262]

No, I had no thought at all that there wasn't going to be work involved. What had originally bothered me was that some long-time sleever people's posts spoke of just being absolutely miserable trying to keep their weight from going back up. When I read that, it made me really wonder what the justification was for having such a major surgery in the first place if it still felt like THAT in the long haul. I needed to have it explained to me exactly what was the "tool" doing in that fight, because I wasn't seeing it in some of those posts. There'd be no reason to have such a drastic surgery if 6 years later you felt exactly the same way you did when you started out. People have helped me understand much better in this thread.

I'm a nurse, too! Currently working towards my BSN and then NP, so that was even more reason to understand the long-term viability of the sleeve. Glad to have your input.

I don't find it difficult at all, but I do keep a watch and mindfully eat. I will still occasionally over eat, it is always when we're eating out and the conversation/company is good. I don't feel like I'm on a diet EVER, for the first time in over thirty years. I do track and do weigh and I know what I need to maintain, THIS week I've been under every day and have lost two pounds. It is just as important for me to track my calories so I don't lose as it is to track them so I don't gain. I have up days and down days, but all in all, it's normal, at least it is my new normal.

Anybody who doesn't make some lifestyle changes, I'd like to hear from them in ten years, if they can get a sleeve and do nothing else, ever, more power to them. There is a reason we all found ourselves sitting in the waiting room of a bariatric surgeon. It wasn't because we woke up fat one morning.

[becky2013 11]

This is from a post I made a few weeks ago' date=' it does not answer everything you asked about but it fall into the "tool" part (with an additional comment to follow):

"It was asked of me last weekend if I could clarify one thing about WLS, if I could make one notable point that has not been mentioned what it would be. So I thought, hmmmm….

We are constantly reminded that after WLS our stomachs have gone from being a sources of distress, these large cavernous things that CAUSED us to be overweight, FORCED us into eating poorly, etc. to valuable tools we use to lose weight. We have changed our stomachs to be sure. What, however did we change them to? VGS is generally a laparoscopic procedure that removed most of the body of the stomach. Starting generally below the pylorus, the suture/staple/cauterizing procedure extended along the length of the body of the stomach and removed the greater chamber, and may or may not have removed the fundus. So now what, what does that mean?

Now we have our tool. We eat less, we have to. The weight comes off. It may drop like a rock or progress slower. Different body types, health issues, meds, and still the foods we choose to consume will help determine this. So we have a tool for weight LOSS.

Then we maintain. Now we just eat less and it stays off, right? If you have been on the forum for even a little while you will see it is not always that easy. There are still many questions, lots of issues and answers still to be figured out, each in our own way and time. Many questions are about how to use the tool in maintenance.

BUT this post is not about maintenance; it is about the in-between, one of the less mentioned but in my opinion more profound things we do with this tool that affects our success. I define success not by an ideal size or shape but ability - ability to be a size that allows me to be active, and healthy, and off at least some medication, to name a few things. These are not the only goals I have, but they are the achievements I have that I now use to have a far superior lifestyle to the one I had before.

A big shift I have undergone is that I recognized that my tummy did something I did not expect. It provided a way to eat less and it has definite, defined physical ways it has assisted me, no doubt. Mentally it has assisted and even raised more questions! Beyond that, however, there is something more, and whether or not I embrace it I think is the true test of how successful this will be for me. I am talking about the “gap”. I have tried to find any reference to it in the articles and such that I spend a bit of time reading but so far I have not found that many.

The gap I refer to is that space that we never met successfully when we dieted. The ‘ –‘ in yo-yo. That point where the adulation of successful weight loss, and health and compliments began to lose momentum. It lagged with stress of home life, maybe. It was the burger and fries when, honestly, even if it had been a lackluster salad one could have ordered that instead, heck ordered TWO, whatever to be full – but did not. It is the sinking feeling one get when 50 lbs. of weight loss did not make the ailing marriage better, or the bills did not pay themselves. Maybe the issues that were under those layers were still there and still hurt. food was there, with food came feelings of comfort and simultaneous guilt, and a yo-yo began before the weight even crept back on.

Here is the “gap” the ‘ –‘ in yo-yo, and here is where our new friends, our new tummies, kick in. I think it is much underrated in the WLS journey. Our sleeves fill the “gap”. In between that space that we could not overcome, that ‘– ‘ in the yo-yo. We do not eat the burger and fries, we cannot overindulge by volume. We have a means to bridge that gap, if we want it. I think our longest terms of success can be affected by how we choose to take advantage of this bridge over the gap. Better habits, educating ourselves on food choices, understanding what got us here, learning to forgive and set vanity aside. Repairing the mental damage from being in the shells we were in, this is something our sleeves offer us that we did not have before. Much more important than just eating less and as vital as exercise - we have time. Time to recover before we even stumble, time to get equanimity from our minds and bodies at the same time we do not regress to bad habits and start that journey back up the scale.

We have time to make time – days and months and years to in turn create space to enjoy those days and months and years. If we did not gain a day from this, we gain quality. You know the sayings about rather have quality of years over a lot of years? We get an opportunity for both!!! From VGS and the bridge it gave over the “gap”."

Now, as far as everyone struggling years later, that is falling back into habits, and eating foods that they ate before. No one wants to hear this but you are undergoing a permanent, life altering event. To enjoy a long-term success, you will need to permanently alter your choices of foods, exercise as you can, get control of emotional triggers and I would seriously recommend reading “The Power of Habit” by Dughil.

If you are asking why incorporate this, and make the struggle easier, and yet still struggle – but say struggle at 250 lbs rather than 400, or 180 rather than 250. Well, that is your answer.[/quote']

Well said. Bravo Bravo.