Anti-Semitism In France!

[gadgetlady 4]

I believe she said she mocks "FANATIC FUNDAMENTALISTS OF ANY STRIPE, because they are dangerous and stupid."

It's abundantly clear from your posts that you are not a fanatic. Of any stripe. :biggrin1:

I doubt Sue would agree with you, and I daresay there are a lot of others on this thread that would disagree as well. I also doubt they'll speak up.

Thank you for your vote of confidence, though!

[Alexandra 55]

With all due respect, what some attacks Jesus and my faith, they are attacking me and I do take it personally. The can disbelieve and I have no problem with that, but when someone trys to make a mockery out of my faith, yeah, I will take it personally. There is no reason for it.

If I said disparaging things about Jew, Arabs, Irish or blacks, I would expect them to take it personally too! Wouldn't you? Why can't we disagree without going for the throat?

Why can't we, indeed? I'd like to see you display some of that, please.

[anonemouse 1]

I doubt Sue would agree with you, and I daresay there are a lot of others on this thread that would disagree as well. I also doubt they'll speak up.

I'll speak up. I don't think you are a fanatic. Fundamentalist, yes. Fanatic? No. I think you are a highly educated woman. I definitely don't agree with a lot of your beliefs, but you aren't a fanatic.

[gadgetlady 4]

I doubt Sue would agree with you, and I daresay there are a lot of others on this thread that would disagree as well. I also doubt they'll speak up.

Correction. I don't doubt Sue would agree with you. I know she wouldn't. She has called me such (I'm not looking up individual posts while I say this, so if not in so many words, certainly in spirit), and she's said very hateful things to me on other threads.

[Alexandra 55]

Alexandra, I think Ron's said more than once that people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe. And I know a lot of people on this thread lump me and Ron together, so I'll say it again. People have the right to believe whatever they want.

That being said, don't we all think our belief is right? If an athiest didn't believe that there wasn't a God, would he still be an athiest? Doesn't he think he's right in his belief that there isn't a God? Don't people who don't take the Bible literally believe they are right in not doing so? And haven't they said as much on this thread? Similarly, why is it wrong for people who DO take the Bible literally to say that they believe others are wrong in their beliefs?

I am a libertarian. I believe people are entitled to do whatever they want to do (so long as it doesn't interfere with other peoples' rights) and believe whatever they want to believe. But that doesn't mean I have to believe that their actions and their beliefs are RIGHT. I just have to believe it's OK for them to do or have them. If you think drinking green tea will cure an infection, when really you need antibiotics, you are entitled to your opinion -- but it won't CURE you!

You and Ron share a belief system, yet somehow you manage not to pick fights with people or try to change their minds or tell them they are wrong. What is Ron doing differently?

[gadgetlady 4]

I'll speak up. I don't think you are a fanatic. Fundamentalist, yes. Fanatic? No. I think you are a highly educated woman.

. . . whose husband is the head of her household.

(lest anyone get riled up, that was a JOKE , and you'd have to have read through this whole thread to get it)

Thank you, laurend. I think what I'm saying is that some people equate fundamentalistism with fanaticism. Knowing Sue was one of those people, I took her charge of "dangerous", "stupid", and "deserving of derision" to be directed at me.

[anonemouse 1]

I'll be honest, I think religion is the root of a lot of the evil in the world. Does that mean that I think that every person that practices religion is bad? No, it doesn't. But I do think that a lot of people that consider themselves "good Christians", "good Jews", "good Muslims", or "good Whosits" do a lot of bad things in the name of their higher power. Saying, "Well, they obviously weren't good Whosits" doesn't matter. You wouldn't be a good Whosit to them.

[anonemouse 1]

I think what I'm saying is that some people equate fundamentalistism with fanaticism.

Well, I think you have to admit that most fanatics are fundamentalists. I think people do have a greater chance of being a fanatic if they are a fundamentalist, but I also think you have to take it on a person by person basis.

ETA: Religious fanatics, that is.

[gadgetlady 4]

You and Ron share a belief system, yet somehow you manage not to pick fights with people or try to change their minds or tell them they are wrong. What is Ron doing differently?

Again, I'm not sure everyone would agree with you. There are many who think I try to pick fights or change minds.

For want of a better term, I think it's our usual audience that makes the difference.

My parents are both transplanted New Yorkers. Living in California, which is much more laid back, they can seem abrasive to some people. Some of my employees have told me they can deal with me fine, but they can't handle my mom. The funny thing is, she and I agree on pretty much everything, yet they would rather have me tell them "XYZ" than my mom tell them the exact same thing. Ron's approach is a function of his life and his ministry.

Let me give you another example. Last week I was in Las Vegas and I was on the Strip watching the fountains at Bellagio with my parents. All in front of the fountains were street evangalists with megaphones preaching (I've never seen this before; usually I'm accosted by people handing out porn). Besides the normal "they have guts to do that in THIS city!" thoughts, I also wondered if they would get through to anyone. A guy with a megaphone would never get through to me. But then I noticed that one of the evangalists had put down his megaphone and was having a heart-to-heart conversation with a non-Christian who had been walking by. They talked calmly for at least 20 minutes, at which point my ride arrived and I had to leave.

Would a megaphone get through to me? No. To you? Perhaps not. But to that guy on the street, it was the impetus that started the conversation. We all have our methods and they don't work with everyone.

[gadgetlady 4]

I'll be honest, I think religion is the root of a lot of the evil in the world. Does that mean that I think that every person that practices religion is bad? No, it doesn't. But I do think that a lot of people that consider themselves "good Christians", "good Jews", "good Muslims", or "good Whosits" do a lot of bad things in the name of their higher power. Saying, "Well, they obviously weren't good Whosits" doesn't matter. You wouldn't be a good Whosit to them.

But you shouldn't base your opinion of the validity of the Whosit religion on what the so-called Whosits (who aren't really Whosits because they don't subscribe to what the Whosit religion preaches) do.

[gadgetlady 4]

Well, I think you have to admit that most fanatics are fundamentalists. I think people do have a greater chance of being a fanatic if they are a fundamentalist, but I also think you have to take it on a person by person basis.

ETA: Religious fanatics, that is.

Ahhhh, but the reverse is not also true. Are most fundamentalists fanatics? I don't think so!

[Ron Cusano 0]

Oh, I have tried to and will continue to, but you don't expect me to sit quietly while someone mocks and provokes me, do you? Would you??

Why can't we, indeed? I'd like to see you display some of that, please.

[Ron Cusano 0]

You know what!! We agree on something! But, not all "good Christians", "good Jews", "good Muslims", "good Whosits" or "good athiests" come out of the same mold. You just have to be true to what you believe or not believe!

I'll be honest, I think religion is the root of a lot of the evil in the world. Does that mean that I think that every person that practices religion is bad? No, it doesn't. But I do think that a lot of people that consider themselves "good Christians", "good Jews", "good Muslims", or "good Whosits" do a lot of bad things in the name of their higher power. Saying, "Well, they obviously weren't good Whosits" doesn't matter. You wouldn't be a good Whosit to them.

[anonemouse 1]

But you shouldn't base your opinion of the validity of the Whosit religion on what the so-called Whosits (who aren't really Whosits because they don't subscribe to what the Whosit religion preaches) do.

I don't, and I don't think most of the people here do, either. Criticizing how a person tries to spread his or her beliefs isn't the same as attacking the belief system. Obviously, as an atheist, I don't think Christianity is valid. But that wasn't a conclusion I came to because of the actions of Christians.

And I think we can debate on who is or isn't a Whosit. What person one may consider as subscribing to the tenets of Whositism, person two may consider to be going beyond those tenets. Of course, person two would be considered to be people who aren't living up to those tenets by person one.

[Alexandra 55]

Ahhhh, but the reverse is not also true. Are most fundamentalists fanatics? I don't think so!

Neither do I, and neither do most of us. I haven't seen that claim made here.