Anti-Semitism In France!

[GeezerSue 7]

That is a most interesting quote which you have posted, Geezer Sue. Thank you.

I thought so...I just wish I knew who the hell Roberts is/was. He's quoted on several sites...

[BJean 16]

Geezersue & Green: http://proverb.taiwanonline.org/display.php?about=true

[Ron Cusano 0]

The difference is that I believe in the God of the Bible, the only true God. Your next question, I am sure, is why is the Bible true and the Qu'ran not true. Rather than beat a deah horse, read previous posts on this thread that speak to mathamatical proofs concerning the Bible and prophecy.

So, Ron...what makes YOUR conservative religious beliefs any different than the conservative religious beliefs of, say, the Taliban?

And before you answer, you might want to consider the words of Stephen F. Roberts, who said:

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

[Ron Cusano 0]

How do you get that "God set us up" from Him giving us Free Will? What kind of twisted logic is that? It was no "set-up" if we had free choice!

Far from being cruel, God showed great love and mercy by providing payment in full for our sin, by sacrificing His Son on the cross for us. I know you don't understand why that had to be and I'm not going to explain it again so you can have something else to make snide remarks about.

Zel used the reference to "Jonestown" which was a cult ministry and/or religion. Don't split hairs.

Ron: God gave us free will so he could set us up? I've known some people who parent that way. They think it will teach the kids a lesson if they learn it the hard way. It seems very cruel to me.

I don't think that zel said that you made up your own religion. What he said was "ministry".

[anonemouse 1]

It was no "set-up" if we had free choice!

So how are diseases a result of our "free choice"?

[lisah25 3]

How do you get that "God set us up" from Him giving us Free Will? What kind of twisted logic is that? It was no "set-up" if we had free choice!

Far from being cruel, God showed great love and mercy by providing payment in full for our sin, by sacrificing His Son on the cross for us. I know you don't understand why that had to be and I'm not going to explain it again so you can have something else to make snide remarks about.

I still have problems with this concept. God created us, and He gave us free will. He is all-knowing, so He had to know what we would do, right? Why did He create us with the weaknesses to make the bad choices we do?

I'm honestly not trying to take shots at you, I've struggled with this one for a while.

[GeezerSue 7]

How do you get that "God set us up" from Him giving us Free Will? What kind of twisted logic is that? It was no "set-up" if we had free choice!

Far from being cruel, God showed great love and mercy by providing payment in full for our sin, by sacrificing His Son on the cross for us. I know you don't understand why that had to be and I'm not going to explain it again so you can have something else to make snide remarks about.

Zel used the reference to "Jonestown" which was a cult ministry and/or religion. Don't split hairs.

Perhaps more prayer for the patience to deal with the unenlightened might be in order...otherwise, prayer for a career where everyone will agree with you from the get-go might be a good choice.

Meanwhile, zealots are zealots...whether they call themselves Christian or Taliban.

[BJean 16]

Ron: I define ministry as the service (by a clergy) or the act of ministering religion - not the religion itself.

I promised no more snide remarks and I mean it. I was trying to redeem myself and understand the discussion.

For you to tell me that I don't understand why God did something is another reality check for me. What I honestly do need to understand is that no matter what I say, you will continue to use insults in your rhetorical style of arguing.

I let you use a phrase like "twisted logic" when addressing me in previous posts and I vowed that I would not let you push my buttons again, and I will not.

[Marimaru 7]

I'm with Lisah25 on the idea that God is all knowing, yet gave us free will, knowing what we would do with it, and now punishes us. THAT is what was meant by being set up.

"The difference is that I believe in the God of the Bible, the only true God."

YOU believe that this is the case. Other people believe in other gods and believe that theirs is the "one true" god(dess), and believe that you are wrong. This is honestly the biggest problem I have with any kind of organized religion. I'm sorry, but I don't believe there is any possible way anyone really knows, other than by "faith" which is by definition "belief that is not based on proof".

I am not an atheist, nor am I agnostic, however, I don't really believe in God in the sense of the Bible, either I guess, which is my form of faith.

[Victoriana 10]

If God didnt allow us a choice, how would it be love if we worship and trusted Him out of a lack of other options. God understands love, and the Word says He is love, it was out of love that he allows us the choice, and if we choose to deny Him, thats it. He provided a perfect, sinless, disease free garden and the tree that we were instructed to not eat from. Hoping that obedience would ensue. But since Eve never had anyone lie to her before, she didnt know she could not trust the serpent when he asked her the question, Did God really say... and caused her to doubt, and sin. But God did warn her to stay away. As a parent I taught my children what was dangerous, but sometimes they tested me and had the consequence of getting hurt. This broke my heart to mend a cut finger or something like that. But, God in His infinate love knew that He could still provide a way to be with Him again, but it still comes as a choice, to love Him or abstain. Just because He doesnt force us to love Him doesnt mean that He doesnt continue to hope that we would choose Him. He did take my punishment upon Himself after all, even if I choose to ignore Him.

It seems that there is a pervasive rule somewhere that says that since God knows everything, He set us up for punishment. Its just the opposite, He knows we are not perfect, so He still gives us the choice to come back to Him.

Personally, I was such a wretched person without His intervention. Not that I was mean to people, or a murderer, or thief. I had a basic moral code that I followed, and believed in personal ingegrety and honesty. I was wretched because inside my self, I was insecure, sad, lonely, and allowed people to walk all over me, I had no value in my own eyes. When I learned how much I really am loved by God, I became safe, free from fear, peacefull, confident and so much more. The only thing that changed was my choice to choose Him, ask His forgivness for not loving myself, and therefore not loving others the way they should have been, and most of all, not loving Him enough to trust Him with my life.

That is why my signature about forgivness is on each of my post. I never want to forget the power of His forgivness.

Remember, I respect others choices, because God honors us with choices.

[BJean 16]

Victoriana: You explained that beautifully. It makes so much sense the way you put it.

It is wonderful to read what accepting God in your life has meant to you, and you sound like a person, a child of God, who must fill Him with joy everyday.

[Alexandra 55]

Victoriana, that's the way to talk about your faith. What a beautiful post! Clearly you've found meaning in your faith and it's improved your life. Thank you for sharing in such a thoughtful way.

Geezer, I've loved that quote for a long time. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention!!

[Alexandra 55]

BJean, once again we are on the same wavelength.

[Ron Cusano 0]

Fair enough! If you are serious, so am I and there will be no insults or remarks from me.

Your definition of ministry is correct, however it is not restricted just to the clergy. The Bible teaches that all Believers are given a ministry in the service of the Lord.

I understand that I can be argumentative when I feel attacked because of my faith. I apoligize for that! I am still human, imperfect and have things to work on in my life as a Believer . . . even after 30+ years.

The ministry that I was called to is "messianiac" which involves sharing with Jewish folks that Jesus was and is their Messiah. As you might guess, I am often met with hostility and aggression, however, many Jewish people, especially those who have studied Talmud, prefer an argumentive style of discussion. I come across Jewish folk who are very knowledgable in Tenach (The Hebrew Scriptures) which means that I also be so, and I have studied long and hard, which only confirmed that what I believe is correct. I would never want to have to stand before God some day and know that I taught something that was not true.

If anyone here wants to have serious discussion on the topic, I will go to great lengths to be helpful, informative and sensitive. When I feel that the faith that I consider the most important thing in life is put to redicule, I become very defensive, and I apoligize for that. I am offering an olive branch!

Ron: I define ministry as the service (by a clergy) or the act of ministering religion - not the religion itself.

I promised no more snide remarks and I mean it. I was trying to redeem myself and understand the discussion.

For you to tell me that I don't understand why God did something is another reality check for me. What I honestly do need to understand is that no matter what I say, you will continue to use insults in your rhetorical style of arguing.

I let you use a phrase like "twisted logic" when addressing me in previous posts and I vowed that I would not let you push my buttons again, and I will not.

[TamifromAL 1]

The ministry that I was called to is "messianiac" which involves sharing with Jewish folks that Jesus was and is their Messiah. As you might guess, I am often met with hostility and aggression

Ron, thank you for clarifying that! I was raised a Christian, and married a Jew. We both live our lives as agnostics. But, I always thought that if I wanted to return to the faith, that the messiantic ministry might be a way to blend Christianity with his roots and traditions of Judaism. However, now that I know that the goal is to prostelisize to Jews, I'll take a pass!

Tami