My Suggestion-Stop The Obsessing. Rules Are Meant To Be Broken

[doxieville 799]

actually I think you arent reading clearly' date=' I didnt post about the coffee lol

that was Doxie but I can say I totally agree with her <img src='http://www.bariatricpal.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

good day[/quote']

LOL!

[O.T.R. sleever 3,386]

Umm, I'd like to make an observation here.

I've noticed that there just doesn't seem to be any long term (over 1 year) success stories from people who start out not making a major dietary & lifestyle changes.

The thing you have to realize is over time some bad habits are going to creep back into our daily life. And nobody is going to stay as vigilant as we start off.

This is where the major difference comes in. If you start off with "I'm just going to eat less" and over time you become less focused, where does that leave you? Conversely if you make radical lifestyle & dietary changes, and over time you also lose some focus, where does that leave you.

Consider it this way. If you couldn't swim and were going out on a boat that has proven to be less than seaworthy, would you not take a lifejacket?

[Butterthebean 8,146]

So I have read through all the posts on here' date=' and I agree on some and disagree on others. I am getting close to my 2 yr anniversary, so I am not sure if that allocates me as a veteran, but I do think have a more experience than some.

[/quote']

You certainly qualify as a veteran. Thanks for your input.

[doxieville 799]

Stepping in line for the lifejacket.

[Kalimomof3 613]

So I have read through all the posts on here' date=' and I agree on some and disagree on others. I am getting close to my 2 yr anniversary, so I am not sure if that allocates me as a veteran, but I do think have a more experience than some.

Here is my take. The rules are there to help people develop new habits. I used my first 6 months to develop new eating habits that I could live with. Did you read that part, that I could LIVE with. I do worry about some of the people on here that go to absolute extremes with post-op diet, obsessing over every calorie, carb or Protein gram that passes their lips. Neilsleeve, you are correct in that. We were all good at diets, but diets are not something that you can live with forever. I never counted or weighed anything. BUT, I did use that time, like I said, to form a new routine, a new way of looking at food, and a new way of eating.

I think telling people to go out and eat whatever they want is not good advice. Like ButtertheBean said, there are the people out there that have not dealt with their issues and are just waiting for someone to say it is ok to eat a chip. I don't think people can go into this surgery expecting to not change a single thing and have a positive result. Sure, you will lose weight. Will you reach your goal, maybe, maybe not. Will you be able to maintain, chances are probably not. The further out you are, the more you can eat. And trust me, although it is nothing compared to what a person could eat pre-op, if you aren't careful, you can eat a substantial amount. And if you continue to eat foods that are unhealthy, you are going to be in trouble. How do I know, I have seen it. I have seen others that have went through the same program that I have. They have not changed anything. Eating chips and crackers, eating fries everyday and justifying it by saying, well, I can just eat a little. And some of those people have lost the weight, only to start to regain. Maybe not the 100lbs that they lost, but all of a sudden they have put 20 or 30 lbs back on, which is harder to lose 2 years out than 2 months out. It takes 1 year to form a new habit, take the first post op year to form yours.

I do completely agree with the obsessing. Now, you have to do what works for you. But, cutting out complete food groups or going to eating extremes does not form a healthy relationship with food nor do I think that it is sustainable for the long term. If I like Bananas and I post a recipe with Bananas, I am not asking you to come on here and preach to me about how "fattening" bananas are. Do they have carbs? Yes. Are they higher in calories than other fruits? Yes. Are they unhealthy? No. If your world is consumed by every morsel you are putting in your mouth, you are going to be miserable. Like I said, I have never counted anything, and I have never dieted. But I also know my trigger foods and do not keep them in my house. Does that mean I never have anything that would be classed as a treat? Hell no! I have ice cream, I have chocolate, and I have chips. They key is, I only have small amounts and I do not have them often. The key here is healthy, lifelong changes, not diets.

The last point I would like to make, and sorry for the long post, but it was touched on, is the guilt and shame around food. We have spent our whole lives feeling guilty and made to feel bad about what we eat. It creates a vicious cycle of eating something we think we shouldn't, feeling guilty and beating ourselves up, and then eating more to shove down the pain of the guilt. The sleeve is an opportunity to develop a healthy relationship with food. And it is not easy. There are days that I still struggle. But I have worked very hard at putting those feelings in their place. If I have a few chips, should I feel bad about it. No? If I eat half a bag of chips, should I feel bad? Equally, no. Learn from it and use it as a chance to change. Tomorrow is a new day and use that new day to make better choices. Let's stop beating ourselves up and berating ourselves every day. I am not going to let food define who I am anymore.[/quote']

Amen

[Butterthebean 8,146]

@butter I stick to my original post. I am not lumping...

I wasn't referring to you when I made the reply about lumping. That was someone else. We are good.

While I don't agree with everything you said, I do agree with your sentiment about obsessing and I appreciate your willingness to speak your mind and not make it personal when things get heated.

We need more people around here who aren't scared of a healthy debate. I hope you stick around. Your outlook on things will likely change in a few months. In what way I cannot say, but for me the more I read this forum the more my view of obesity and weight loss surgery has changed. I thought everyone here was in the same boat as me, now I know we are all not even in the same ocean.

[Chimera 644]

It seems that there are two major groups on this forum. Those who get the sleeve and use the tool to eat less and loose weight and those who get the sleeve to kick off a new life of healthly eating, exersice, Protein shakes and basicly a totally new life. The first group, in which I belong, is a little more laid back, we are going to incorporate birthday cake and margaritas. I would love it if the group of "Sleeve life changer- health nuts" would give us "Laid back sleevers" a break and not accuse of us of being trolls, or giving bad advice. We have a different lifestyle, it is okay not to be just like you, I promise. There needs to be room for both types of people on this forum. When I first started reading I thought the only people on here were health fanatics, I am glad to see there are people who are not running 5k's and drinking Protein Shakes 4 weeks out.

Just wow on that one lol.

Chiming in on this after just coming off of a month long stall which began the very day that we brought a big mess of the foods we used to eat into the house for our 16 yo's birthday and visiting out of town guests. We had a few slices of birthday cake, croutons, and baked potaotoes over the course of a week - I know nothing major right - let me tell you how insulin resistant my husband and I are (he also had a vsg two weeks before my own) those carbs instantly set off a cascade of old addictive responses and cravings that took two weeks to dampen down.

When I eat stuff like that all I can think of is food.

When I eat those foods, my losses stop - and the cycle of negativity once again rears its ugly head - that I am a failure, that I am weak.

The key is balance.

When I eat the way my nutritionist and surgeon advise to - I no longer feel those cravings and am fueling my body in a healthy and nutrient dense manner. I simply feel better and I am also changing my body chemistry - because we are not really designed to eat the crap that the food industry makes billions on, and destroys our health in the process. Take a look at Gary Taubes or David Kessler's work - or Paleo and primal sites.Very enlightening.

Lumping the fine group of folks here into two camps is utterly ridiculous - we all come here for information, insight, and support and have a wide range of experiences. I know that I have tried to model Tiffykins - someone who eats quite normally now - but was strict during the losing phase - there is a reason that this first 6 months to a year is referred to as the honeymoon phase.

[doxieville 799]

I wasn't referring to you when I made the reply about lumping. That was someone else. We are good.

While I don't agree with everything you said' date=' I do agree with your sentiment about obsessing and I appreciate your willingness to speak your mind and not make it personal when things get heated.

We need more people around here who aren't scared of a healthy debate. I hope you stick around. Your outlook on things will likely change in a few months. In what way I cannot say, but for me the more I read this forum the more my view of obesity and weight loss surgery has changed. I thought everyone here was in the same boat as me, now I know we are all not even in the same ocean.[/quote']

How boring it would be if we were all in the same boat, BTB!

And a healthy debate is good and kudos to OP for sticking around and sticking to his convictions w/o slinging mud. There are some posts on here....whew....can curl your toes!

OP, I really look forward to you sticking around and posting in other topics. While I don't agree with your statements about eating freely, I totally agree in the statement 'agree to disagree.'

And I really do wish you well in this crazy trip we are all on! The ups and downs, successes and stalls are celebrated and supported by all around here, even when we disagree!

[NJSleeveboy 212]

Yes, Debates are great and we are on here for different views.. If someone wants to do what I said, but unsure if anyone has done it, then perhaps they'll enjoy this thread. I never sling mud when people are nice and smart and have things in common. We all have the latter. The only "heated" part is when someone who was insulted that not everyone agrees with their ways, had to call me full of SH)##@ and say I am a troll, on here to just say crazy stuff to make people irate.. That's insane and not appreciated, hence my sarcasm.. But, yes, all good stuff here!

[Chimera 644]

I agree - I enjoy a healthy debate, it is good to discuss these topics because they are issues that we all deal with everyday.

I know for myself that getting to my goal weight is VERY important - and when i started I had 188 excess lbs to lose, that is quite a journey so I need to be serious and I need to be brutally honest with myself in regards to my food consumtion, its nutitional value, Water, Vitamins, exercise etc. If I am not I will not get to where I want to be - i am getting too old to keep farting around with this dance with the food.< /p>

I am human and am always stumbling at this but hopefully I will reach that elusive goal.

I myself am addicted to substances that are crunchy and savory so I cannot keep them in the house - that is one of the things that has contributed to my success. ice cream i could care less - so, know your demons and work with them accordingly

[Getting There 198]

Wow, this is by far one of the more interesting threads I've read on this site. There are parts of many posts that I both agree and disagree with. One thing that I think has to be remembered is that each surgeon develops their own plan based on their experiences with patients and perhaps those of their peers - with whom they agree.

Much like classes in elementary school, the curriculum has to be developed to address the most common group of students. Just as teachers can't be expected to develop a curriculum for each student, no surgeon can be expected to develop a plan individualized for each and every patient. The surgeon must take into account the typical, average patient. Seeking to maximize the results for that group of patients. There will always be those above, and those below, the curve.

There is an issue of liability here as well. If a surgeon has a plan that pretty much allows for a "free-for-all" post-op diet, then if/when something happens to Patient X, who reacts poorly to eating a meatball or whatever, the surgeon has a certain culpability. Designing a post-op plan that is conservative and gradually introduces new food and new textures is the proper thing to do. That is proven to work best for the majority of patients. Yes, some will do OK with more aggressively adding foods and textures; others will take longer to adapt to that.

Speaking only for myself, I find the post-op plan (I refuse to call it a diet!) from my surgeon to be one of the more conservative out there. And for that I am grateful. I want to be successful and to give this new tool I've been given every chance at succeeding. If that means I go for another week or two or more without giving in to a craving or temptation, so be it. I have the rest of my life to have a few bites of pizza or to eat a turkey burger or nosh on a bit of birthday cake. For now, I want to concentrate on learning new habits that I can incorporate into a life-long lifestyle change. A lifestyle that will eventually include a margarita now and again, eating out with friends, etc. A lifestyle that will include a permanent weight loss, something I've not achieved previously.

I wish everyone luck on their individual journey. Discovering what works, and what doesn't, for each of us is part of the journey we are on. We just have to respect that each person's journey is down a slightly different path.

Sorry for the lengthy post - you can tell that like others I feel very passionate about this whole new experience

[PdxMan 4,292]

It seems that there are two major groups on this forum. Those who get the sleeve and use the tool to eat less and loose weight and those who get the sleeve to kick off a new life of healthly eating, exersice, Protein shakes and basicly a totally new life. The first group, in which I belong, is a little more laid back, we are going to incorporate birthday cake and margaritas. I would love it if the group of "Sleeve life changer- health nuts" would give us "Laid back sleevers" a break and not accuse of us of being trolls, or giving bad advice. We have a different lifestyle, it is okay not to be just like you, I promise. There needs to be room for both types of people on this forum. When I first started reading I thought the only people on here were health fanatics, I am glad to see there are people who are not running 5k's and drinking Protein Shakes 4 weeks out.

Wow, is that how you have interpreted my post? Or my posts on other threads?

My intent on this board is two-fold. To learn other people's experiences and to share mine. Nothing more.

I don't want anyone to turn into a health nut or go out and run a 5K, if they don't want to. I don't want you to be like me. I want everyone, whether pre or post sleeve, to have the best information they can to fulfill their goals. Some people are looking to only cut back on the quantity of food they eat, as is evidenced by the post asking, "I'm three days post-op, what can I order at Dairy Queen?" While that did make me go, "WOW", it is their choice and their own personal goals. That is fine. Other people are looking to change their lives completely. That is also their choice. I try to share my experience and answer whatever questions are posted honestly as I can. Have I avoided judging people on here? I'd like to say, "No", but alas, I know I, too, have been guilty. I'm human. I am trying to improve myself.

But, look at the threads. Not just the ones posted in the past day or week. The OP says they have read ALL the threads (tongue in cheek, I know) in pre- and post-, which would encompass thousands of threads. If even 10% were read, you would see the common topic of people sliming, throwing up, in terrible pain.

What would you suggest to them?

"Come on! You're 3 weeks post op. I could eat meatballs by then ... what's your problem?"

Real people are having real problems on here. Real people are researching the sleeve and using this site as a reference. I don't think it is responsible forum membership to give the impression that you don't have to follow your Drs guidelines. No matter what your goals are.

That is the jist of I interpret from this thread. Now, just know, the OP has edited his posts and the content has changed, but I am not able to follow each of those edits.

BTW, I define a troll as someone who come on a forum and kicks the hornets nest for no other reason that to create a buzz. That may easily apply to me as I do seem to attract controversy at times. But it is funny, I really don't think I am THAT controversial by suggesting you actually follow your Drs guidelines and call out someone who tells people not to worry about them ...

Curious ...

[PdxMan 4,292]

The only "heated" part is when someone who was insulted that not everyone agrees with their ways, had to call me full of SH)##@ and say I am a troll, on here to just say crazy stuff to make people irate.. That's insane and not appreciated, hence my sarcasm.. But, yes, all good stuff here!

At no time did I say you were full of SH)##@. As a matter of fact, if you read my first post, I said I agreed with you, so, uh ...

What I disagreed with was that people don't need to follow their Drs guidelines. I just don't agree.

I put myself in the shoes of someone researching the sleeve, coming on here, reading and thinking, "Oh, I really don't have to do purees post-op, then. Cool!" Then, they get the sleeve, do their own thing and get in trouble.

This is the person I worry about most when I read this thread.

[COsleeveDude 273]

So when I read these comments I feel like y'all are saying I'm going to fail.

These foods you're talking about eating in moderation, I no longer crave.

I'm truly asking here, is there no chance for success for someone who has fallen out of love with all those unhealthy foods, and just wants to eat Proteins and green veggies?

If you can fall out of love, you can fall in love again.

My guess is most of us will face challenges again down the road. It took me several tries in my 20s of trying to quit smoking to finally be fully successful and kick it forever.

I don't think success is impossible, I think PERFECTION is impossible. And when we think perfection is the goal then we risk ruining the whole thing over a few mistakes. If we get used to making and managing imperfect decisions as part of the path to success, that one bump wont be a sinkhole.

But, just my opine. We should all check back in 2-3 years and see who is wrong. And then make them cry.

[lessofmeismore 1,405]

Don't bother posting unless you agree with the op because he only goes back and changes ALL his posts and comments.

That is deceitful and shows your character.

You are editing your entire posts and responses. Much more then adding a disclaimer or quotes from other posters. Unbelievable

Smh