I was watching the news Sunday and Monday, and heard about Cuba's Leader Fidel Castro's surgery which required him to pass the reigns of power onto his brother Raul for the next week or so. The scene then changed to show the reactions of Cuban-Americans in Miami and the Cubans in Cuba.

Outside of the totally opposite reaction to the medical/political crisis, I was struck with the following observations:

#1. Over 90% of the Cubans were Black, but about 90% of the Cuban-Americans were White.

#2. About 45% of the Cuban-Americans were in an age bracket to probably have been the grandchildren of the people that fled Cuba when Castro took control.

#3. About 45% of the Cuban-Americans were in an age bracket to probably have been the children of the people that fled Cuba when Castro took control.

#4. Only about 10% of the Cuban-Americans were in the age bracket to possibly have been the people that fled Cuba when Castro took control.

#5. The Cubans seemed concerned for their leader.

#6. The Cuban-Americans must have misunderstood the news to think that they had each hit the lottery. The last time I checked, most Cuban-Americans are Roman Catholic, which is a version of Christianity. I do not remember Jesus ever preaching the idea of gloating over the illness of anyone. Perhaps I am wrong and should go back to just observing. Obviously thinking about how sadistic the celebrations in the streets of Miami looked is beyond my comprehension. Many Cuban-Americans were chanting, "Castro is dead" while dancing in the street.

Didn't Jesus say: "Love thy enemy as thy neighbor and love thy neighbor as thy self."?

I guess many of the Cuban-Americans can't wait for Castro to die so that they can "go back" to Cuba, though that may be difficult, since many never have been there (see #2 & #3 above).

I guess that those Cuban-Americans have a right to be annoyed at Castro. If it wasn't for Castro, they would be Cubans instead of Cuban-Americans, and we all know how dishonorable it is to be a citizen of the USA. Don't we?

While I was watching the news today, I saw many Cuban-Americans interviewed in Miami and Newark NJ. Many said that they could not wait for Fidel to die, so that they could move back to Cuba. Many (as I mentioned above) have never been to Cuba, so I find it strange to hear that they want to "go back".

While I was living in NYC, many of my friends were Puerto Ricans who had been in Brooklyn since they were children (or had been born in Brooklyn). I lived with a Puerto Rican family after my parents had died and considered them to be family (step-siblings). About half of them moved to PR when they got into their 40's, but most were back in the NYC area within a year or two. It is one thing to visit and another to live in a place like PR when you are accustomed to NY.

I wonder how many of the 20 to 40 year old Cuban-Americans will move back (for the first time) to Cuba, only to return to Miami and Newark. If they move to Cuba, they will try to change Cuba into Miami. All the charm that they seek, will be destroyed by their invasion of the island paradise. McDonald's probably can't wait to hear that Fidel has died. After the Cuban-Americans of Miami, probably no one is looking forward to Fidel's death more than the fast-food chains and BuSh.

I dont think they see it as "dishonorable" to be a citizen of the US, but being unable to go to the country that thier family is from probably fuels the desire to go back even more. I am unable to understand this being an American, but little do they realize that Castros brother is a tyrant as well. How can someone possibly appreciate what this country has to offer if they havent seen the poverty where they came from with thier own eyes? I also do not believe that as soon as he dies, it will magicaly open the gate for people to come and go as they please in Cuba. But, let them rejoice at the possibility of the dictator that they have known to have a stronghold on what family they do have there as well as the lives of the current citizens, dying. I respect any immigrant who wanted to leave the suppression of a dictatorship and LEAGALLY came here to contribute to our society. We as Americans usually take these liberties for granted as most of us have no concept of what its like to have no rights. Thats until Bush was elected..umm..whoops, did I say that outloud? My bad..

Im not sure if politics should be discussed here. But in response to your post, I was born in Cuba and "escaped" at the age of eight. Castro had been in power for five years, during that time my father, grandfather and uncles were sent to prison, each between 5-9 years. My uncle was a catholic priest and was forced to leave Cuba. Castro order the murders of thousands and thousands of Cubans, and that was only one of many atrocities he committed.

As soon as I turned 18, I became a American Citizen, when my father came to this country he always dreamed of becomming a citizen, and did so, like many Cubans who had too fled Castros regime.

All the Cubans that I personally know love this country and are forever greatful for all the opportunities she has given them.

I woud love one day to go to Cuba, many of us regardless where we were born or where our parents were born yearn to visit those places. I plan to go back to visit, and I hope my children and my husband who were all born in this country will join me to go so I can share things about my cuban culture. But yes the US has been my home for all of my adult life and this is where I, and I belief many will stay.

The older generation, who were in their 20-40's when Castro came into power were uprooted from their homes living everything behind,(many left with just the clothes they were wearing) they all thought it was temporary that one day very soon they would return to Cuba. My father is 80 same age as Castro, I hope one day he can go and visit Cuba.

The lounge is for all "off-topics," as in everything not band or weight loss, and politcs can certianly be "off."

I'm cuban as well, came to this country when I was 14, I second everything that "readytogo" said. My story is pretty similar and I feel the same way, this is my country, my father was one of the first cubans to volunteer to defend this country on WWII, since he was born in Cuba, but lived here since he was 8 and returned to Cuba when he was on his 30's.

However, I would like to let you know, that you need to live in Cuba under the dictatorship of Castro to even begin to understand the pain that these people in Miami, and all over have gone through, unless you have walked in their shoes, it's better not to even form an opinion or or try to judge them or even understand them. The pain that they have insde is way too deep and great, I for one thing am a christian , but would be happy the day that Castro dies, am I a bad christian?maybe..but an honest one..

i think that there are many horrible dictators around the world. some are aligned with U.S. foreign policy some are aligned against. i think the coverage is consistent with american spin on a dictator that is aligned against the U.S. no more no less.

Agree Indeed

No one said that Castro is a good person, but Batista and many of the people who were made rich by his policies were not good people either. I am not saying that anyone's family on this board were deserving of persecution. I am a white man (born and raised in the USA) and even though I have never knowingly discriminated against Blacks or Hispanics, I may have benefited many times when it came to promotions on my job or in my school days by teachers who gave me preferential treatment over minorities. Maybe if:

#1. The US government had helped Castro when he came to them for help ridding the Cuban people of Batista

or

#2. The USA had tried to barter with Castro later to help Cuba economically in exchange for more civil rights for Cuba's people

the situation would have been different.

Many of the Cuban exiles where people who benefited by the Corrupt Batista regime. Many were influential in keeping down the Cuban Blacks and poor, but many were (like I) just lucky to be white in a society where being white meant you were better and they fled because they dreaded the change in the status quo.

A lot of US whites complain about the current state of race relations in the USA. They long for the "Good Old Days" when Blacks knew their place and they could be discriminated against legally.

I'm sorry, bu i disagree with you in many of your views,

Firstly I don't think that it was the US goverment's responsability or even moral duty to help Castro when he came asking for help, because he was definitely the wrong person, with disgusting moral values and known to many the kind of person he was, in fact I think the US made a very informed and wise decision by not helping him.

Your second point..I don't think that the US should negotiate with Castro in ANY way, even if that entails helping them economically in exchange for civil rights in Cuba, sorry, but I don believe in negotiating with terrorists and murderers. And if you don't think that he has been behind many terrorists attacks, financed terrorists and has ordered the killing of many innocent people, think again.......He should allow for free true elections and allow civil rights in Cuba, without any country having to negotiate with him, that is my opinion.

Your next point....Some of the cuban exiles may have been benefited by the Batista regime, I don't think that "so many of them" but I agree that some may have, actually that goes on on every goverment in most countries, even the on most decent goverments, is it ok? of course not, but it's a fact. Batista, by the way was 100 times better person that Castro, you may think I'm crazy by saying that, but I'm not, you may want to look deeper into that, Batista never killed as many innocent people as Castro has , that's for sure. Actually, if Castro has helped the poor and the blacks that much, I wonder why so many blacks, mixed and poor people have been willing to risk their lives and have dies in a raft in the ocean trying to leave Cuba in the past decades?

Another point....I don't know what part of the country you live, but I have lived in different states, I'm Cuban, I look white that's true, my last name is Muguire, and it's my maiden's name, because my parents were born in Spain, my grandparents from my father' side were irish, but i still tell everyone that I'm cuban, at work, everywhere, since I'm proud and have nothing to hide, and I have NEVER and I mean never been discriminated against, maybe I'm just lucky..... I have friends that are cuban, have accents, look hispanic and they have NEVER been discriminated against either, in jobs, school days, etc. I think this country and it's people has changed for the better very much from the old days and lastly, I strongly disagree with you when you say that A LOT of US whites complain about the state of race relations in the US, and they long for the good old days, maybe a few, sure, because racism has always existed in the world , not just here, and I think that unfortunately will always be there, but in a much lower scale, but to say "a lot" I find it preposterous. It's sad that anybody can feel the way you do, I wasn't born here and I believe that I trust this country, it's goverment and it's people a lot more than you, I give it/them credit for so much, because I believe that this country is nobel and absolutely great and what makes this country great is its people and it's yes, its goverment as well, we may have good or not so great goverments sometimes, but at the end of the day, it is still our goverment which by the way has blacks in positions of very high rank and in my opinion we shouldn't bash it, I as you may have realized by now, am a republican, but have never bashed the democrats either, I vote republican, but again, at the end, we all must come together... call me crazy, idealist or naive.........but I just love my country.

Honestly, I don't think that you are well informed and are qualified to speak about cuban affairs, I can definitely see that you are not well informed, and I only say this, because I'm 44 years old and have paid attention and have been informing myself for the past 40 years, plus it was my country of birth and where I grew up for 14 years and know so many cubans with so many stories that are too many to count, etc. so don't take it personally, it's just my opinion...

It would seem to me that the US government has seldom based their relationships with foreign dictators on how bad or good they are. It's almost comical when Americans justify their lack of any attempt to build better relations with Cuba on how evil Castro is. I think we can all agree that th U.S. government has been able to cosey up to some very bad dictators over the last 50 years.

maybe so, but I'm happy that they didn't dosey up to Castro, hey at least one down, that's a victory

I'm sorry, bu i disagree with you in many of your views

Don't be sorry. You have as much right to your opinion as I do to mine. I am assuming that you think that I have a right to my opinion. Right?

I don't think that it was the US goverment's responsability or even moral duty to help Castro when he came asking for help, because he was definitely the wrong person, with disgusting moral values and known to many the kind of person he was, in fact I think the US made a very informed and wise decision by not helping him.

And Batista was the right man with high moral values?

Your second point..I don't think that the US should negotiate with Castro in ANY way, even if that entails helping them economically in exchange for civil rights in Cuba, sorry, but I don believe in negotiating with terrorists and murderers.

As a citizen of the country that has terrorized more countries than any other in the world, I find that a strange statement.

And if you don't think that he has been behind many terrorists attacks, financed terrorists and has ordered the killing of many innocent people, think again.

As many innocent people as the innocent civilians in Iraq?

He should allow for free true elections and allow civil rights in Cuba, without any country having to negotiate with him, that is my opinion.

And in my opinion, the USDA should have as good a school system and medical system as Cuba.

Your next point....Some of the cuban exiles may have been benefited by the Batista regime, I don't think that "so many of them" but I agree that some may have, actually that goes on on every goverment in most countries, even the on most decent goverments, is it ok? of course not, but it's a fact. Batista, by the way was 100 times better person that Castro, you may think I'm crazy by saying that

I do not think you are crazy. I just don't agree with you.

Batista never killed as many innocent people as Castro has, that's for sure. Actually, if Castro has helped the poor and the blacks that much, I wonder why so many blacks, mixed and poor people have been willing to risk their lives and have dies in a raft in the ocean trying to leave Cuba in the past decades?

Maybe it is the stories about the street paved in gold that they hear about.

Another point....I don't know what part of the country you live, but I have lived in different states, I'm Cuban, I look white that's true, my last name is Muguire, and it's my maiden's name, because my parents were born in Spain, my grandparents from my father' side were irish, but i still tell everyone that I'm cuban, at work, everywhere, since I'm proud and have nothing to hide

There is neither anything to be proud about nor ashamed about. You had no more choice in your racial makeup as you had in the number of fingers that you have.

Honestly, I don't think that you are well informed and are qualified to speak about cuban affairs, I can definitely see that you are not well informed, and I only say this, because I'm 44 years old and have paid attention and have been informing myself for the past 40 years, plus it was my country of birth and where I grew up for 14 years and know so many cubans with so many stories that are too many to count, etc. so don't take it personally, it's just my opinion...

So you know more than me because you are 44 and were born in Cuba? I am 61 and born in the USA. Neither proves anything. I doubt that you can be objective however, since you are so proud of being Cuban. I an not Cuban, so I have no axe to grind either for or against Cuba, the Cuban exiles or Castro.

I have not had a chance to post since my previous one, due to a last minute medical complication which may mean cancelling my surgery for friday. I will be having an angiogram tomorrow morning, and God willing everything will be allright.

Elena, I agree with your statements.

Tired Old Man: Elena is 42, and you 61, Im 46 and yes I do think we know Cuba better than you. The things that she and I experience can never be completly understod by reading books or watching documentaries.

As we speak there are many children and young adults living in places that are being torn apart by wars and by horrible governments. When I am 61 and these young people are 42, I know that I wont ever be able to know more than they do about their birthplace or its government.

Again, I second everything "readytogo" said.

You definitely have the right to your opinion, thanks to your goverment and to the fact that you live in this country. If you lived in Cuba you couldn't express absolutely nothing...

Batista may have not been the right person, but I tell you, by comparison with Castro, he was still much more deserving of help than Castro.

Do you really think that our country has terrorized more countries than any other in the world? Maybe you should live somewhere else, what are you still doing here? If I felt that way, I definitely wouldn't live here, that is exactly why I left Cuba, because Castro is a terrorist. I'm really shocked at this statement....

I feel very bad that civilians have to die in Irak , unfortunately that's how much is taking to help them establish a better life for them in the future, sacrifices have to be made sometimes to obtain what you want and need. It happens all over the world and even in our personal lives. It's unfortunate but a fact.

A good school system in Cuba...That's exactly why I know that you are extremelly and wrongly informed. I grew up there remember? Since you are 10 years old, they make you go 3 months every year to what looks like concentration camps with no electricity or even the basic human needs, no clean Water, no food, but water, bread and maybe coffee, without the consent of your family to work 10 hours a day doing very hard work and you must do this every year until you graduate, if you don't go, the goverment won't let you stay in school and your family will be harrased in a daily basis and forever and the child will have no right to education, and I'm not going to talk about the brain washing and the lies that they teach the children in school and all the anti-God propaganda and the communist bullcrap. That's how the children and parents pay for school in Cuba, it's not free, it comes at a very high price....

As far as medical system.....I could be writing here for hours, but I don't have the time, however, the hospitals in Cuba have no basic needs either, no A/C, the patients and families are sweating while they are dying, there is no medicines available, sometimes not even aspiring, but they are available to the big shot comunist, while you see your relative dying because they won't give them the medicine that they need, it's ver sad...... the bathrooms are clogged with excrement and urine, no toilet paper, you can't even bring your own fan for your dying relative, because they don't want you to use their electricity, the hospital beds are old, broken, dirty, the sheets tear up, once my grandmother was being transfered from one hospital bed to another and the sheets teared up in half and my grandmother in her 70's an ill ended up on the floor, the doctors and nurses make such a small salary that they don't care for anybody, they are tired and frustrated and don't care to provide good service, and I could go on and on....but you wouldn't understand , you had to be there, you really don't want to land in a hospital in Cubaif you live there, unless you are paying top dollars, then Castro will love you, because he loves the allmighty dollar. Is that the medical system that you long for? or maybe you don't believe me...............

So you really think that someone wouldn't mind dying in the ocean because they heard stories about golden paved streets? These people come the US and many of them make a good life for themselves after a while , many of them have relatives and/or friends here and know exactly how we live here, I don't think that they risk their lives for a lying fairy tale, cubans are smarter than that..........they come here because it is practically impossible to survive there, that is the sad but honest truth.

I'm sorry that you have nothing to be proud about your country, yes, obviously we disagree, I am very proud of this country, which is my country , for soooo many reasons, and in my opinion, you express yourself in a manner that shows shame for this country, bitterness for this country and hatred for your country.

You being 61 and born here in the US proves a lot......Proves that you really don't know what it is to live in Cuba, like "readytogo" said, what cubans experience when they are born under Castro and have lived under Castro can NEVER be completely understood by reading about it or watching documentary, believe me, never...

You said that you have no axe to grindeither for or agains Cuba, the exile or Castro...........but you are grinding..........in a very high scale.........you really sound like a communist.....and that's fine if you are, but again, if you feel so much different from our country's ideas and goverment, it would be great if you tried living somewhere else where you may agree more with their goverment........you could always try Cuba, I'm sure Castro would love to have you there.........you may find it a great place to retire.....this is just a suggestion.........or how about Chavez in Venezuela? you do have a couple of options........that way you don't have to stay here under our goverment that you disagree so much with.........I know I would, well, actually, I know I did..........

Best wishes,

I came here this morning looking for the status quo on fills, etc. But instead I read a very interesting thread with passion! Wonderful I appreciate passion for anything.

I'm registerd Independent, and vote per candidate, not by party. That makes me wishy washy or openminded, depending on how you look at it. But the point I want you to understand is that I am not affiliated with either the republican or democratic party....

Okay my first point is that I think it's wonderful that we can be in a place where we can publically express our opinions and disagree with other's opinions. I have absolutely no experience living anywhere else but the USA, so that right is something I take for granted at times. This morning I'm more appreciative of it than I have been after reading all of this thread.

Secondly, I do think that vicarious experience or experience through reading, media, stories, etc. is less relavent than personal experience. Tired Old Man, it's likely that Elena and readytogo would have a hard time fathoming your views on our government. Their personal experiences in Cuba have lead them to appreciate our country on a level different from natives of the USA, because it offered more to them by way of freedom than they had experienced. And Elena and readytogo, it's likely that Tired Old Man for that same reason may have a hard time fathoming your views on Cuba.

And while Elena M makes the point that Tired Old Man might consider leaving a country he doesn't respect, that is something easier for her to argue because she HAS left a country she didn't respect. However: Tired Old Man has a right to be "shameful, bitter, or hating" if that is how he feels, because the USA gives him that right.

I think that two points should be made here: It's important that, although we could might not understand the walk someone else has taken in their own shoes, we should always strive to TRY to understand. And, two, I would hope that if there is something we disagree with as deeply as everyone on this thread has expressed, that we act to change it. To whatever extent that we can act.

The one other thing to which I wanted to throw my two cents in is regarding the affect of personal stories on how we perceive history. My father and grandfather told me stories of how they grew up and those stories have affected my outlook on life in general. My father was a farmer and they used EVERYTHING and wasted nothing. He told me stories of why they did that; they had no money, used what they had. Made shoes from non-shoe-like materials, etc. I was raised hearing how important it is to not waste anything. Hence I am fat now because I ate everything on my plate! *common thread we all have - we're overweight*. I digress but my point is that my perceptions were at least somewhat formed by the stories and history my family have passed on to me. Is it possible that those too young to have experienced Castro and his regime may have a hatred for Castro and the regime because they grew up hearing about the horrors and hate him and his regime because of what it has done to their families? This point is specifically for Tired Old Man. Have you never formed an opinion or feeling because of what another person experienced?

That is all Thanks for the lively conversation this morning.

do you feel this same fury when you see people in the middle east dancing in the streets to the fall of the world trade centers, burning our flags.?