Lap Band Or Gastric Sleeve Surgery...losing My Mind

[LilMissDiva Irene 3,281]

Here is a prefect example of why it is so damn difficult to talk to people who choose a procedure different than the one you have chosen:

Which one of you are correct?

Shelly, I'm very informed in both, because I've had both.

Oma is correct and for ME and my experience Maddy is not. I was never able to eat normally with my band. I was forced to eat slider foods because that was all I could eat. I never found my sweet spot, either I was too loose or too tight. This knowing because my Dr. would fill / unfill me (over 20+ times in the course of my band days) the minimum and I'd still be this way.

Also after having my revision, I learned it was not my fault because I totally rocked my sleeve and hit goal in almost 7 months. I am beyond goal now.

HTH - and remember, this was my personal experience only. Everyone is different.

[LilMissDiva Irene 3,281]

Also, if you are interested in the plication, here is a link to the plication talk board.

http://www.sleeveplicationtalk.com/

[Shellyac 22]

Shelly, I appreciate that you are trying to get all the information you can on both procedures. It does sound like you are totally sold on the band with plication, though, so that should probably be your choice. Each of us is an individual and has different goals and different ideas on how to get there.

You quoted two people who seemed to have conflicting ideas in your post. One thought that you could eat more regular food with the band and the other thought you could eat more regular food with the sleeve. The truth is that both the band and the sleeve will allow one to eat regular food. Both will also allow one to eat slider foods like ice cream, cake, etc.

My choice of the sleeve is based on the restriction that the sleeve automatically gives without the need for fills. I can eat all those slider foods, but I can only eat so much of them before I'm too full to continue. THAT is the reason for sleeve versus band for me.

LilMissDiva gave you links to success and failure areas for both lap band and for vertical sleeve. If you are truly interested in reading more about both procedures, those are the areas to check out. And, you are definitely going to get more praise for VSG on this board because that is the choice most of us have made. I'm sure you'll have a similar experience on the lap band board. Those folks have chosen the lap band for themselves and are working their program as well.

I find it interesting that many lap band patients do end up having a revision from lap band to something else...and that revision is often to VSG. I knew that before I had my sleeve done and that was a factor in my decision.

Also, I never heard of plication during my research phase. I definitely never heard anyone suggest a band with plication. I don't know anything about that process at all. It may turn out to be better than either or both the LB or the VSG. I'm all for any process which helps us to lose weight and become healthier.

I hope that you will let us know how you are doing on your journey and I wish you the best of luck with it! :smile1:

I am sold on the band with plication but I still feel that I can both learn about what to expect after surgery on this board as well as the lap band board. I did seriously consider the band earlier this year. From the time I decided I was interested in weight loss surgery I always thought it would be the band, I think at some point 4 or 5 years later (the main reason for the delay was working for a small business that was excluded from having to cover bariatric surgery) I had finally finished all of my pre-op requirement and scheduled my surgery when my surgeon for I believe the 4th time wanted me to reconsider and have the bypass. And for the first time the office coordinator also tried to get me to consider bypass they even told me that the bypass was reversible! Needless to say when I left the office, after finally nailing down the date I was going to change my life and having two of the people who should be supporting me the most doubting that I will be successful , i was nearly in tears.

I took their doubt seriously and began to research both the bypass and the sleeve because I was determined to be successful with whichever surgery I ended up doing. I had decided that I would have the sleeve. My cousin had it done in June of this year and I knew that she would be a good gauge of how I would be able to cope because as I'm sure nearly all can sympathize with, I come from a family of eaters. I was also interested in the sleeve because if I was going to do something where I couldn't "un-ring the bell" I wanted to go with the procedure that would at least leave me with the most normal system. That is when I joined this forum. It was hear that I also learned about plication as a option and for me it was that light bulb moment. From what I read about plication, it would give me the restriction and digestive system of sleeve with the permanent removal that gave me anxiety about have the sleeve. Even then there were some obstacles, my original surgeon did not preform plication and even if I wanted to go ahead with the sleeve my insurance would not cover me because my BMI is under 50. Also it seemed that stand alone plication was only starting the process of clinical trials so I would have to wait until it was approved. Finally I stumbled across Hollywood Bariatric's website and everything fell into place. The offered the band with plication, my insurance would pay for it 100%, and they are located about 15 minutes away from my parents home so I could travel to have the surgery and have a place to recover for free until I am able to return home.

I know that this a new procedure and that I am stepping into the unknown but there was a point not too long ago when the first sleevers were doing the same thing. I have high hopes for this procedure not as a replacement of the sleeve but as a was to bring in the people like me who didn't want to consider an irreversible procedure, or those who don't qualify for the sleeve, and hopefully also make the band surgery a safer procedure overall.

I'm not surprised that you haven't heard of the band with plication, if it weren't for the pressure to reconsider the band I wouldn't have found out about it either.

The reason I posted those quotes wasn't because I didn't know the correct answer (which is of course the one you gave) but because that I felt that they illustrated what I see as the biggest problem on these boards, I would be willing to bet that these same conflicting statements could be found within a some thread on the lap band board on why the band is better. That problem is that people are so caught up in justifying their decision and trying to convince others to make the same one that they don't realize that they are misinformed themselves.

Another question I have for those of you who have revised from the band to the sleeve, especially those of you who were in the green zone, does the feeling of restriction differ with the sleeve than with the band or even with that stuffed feeling with overeating with a normal stomach? It would be helpful to know which feeling restriction I will be similar to once I'm finally on the other side.

Michelle

[Shellyac 22]

BTW I am a member of all three boards. I guess the reason why I am fanatical about wanting people to stop trying to push their procedure by bashing the other is that I feel that the banded plication will give me something in common with all three and I would like to be able to share and learn without judgement

[Lissa 2,631]

I am glad that you are a member of all three boards. That means you are doing your research and looking for the right choice for yourself. I'm a Virgo, so I understand wanting to have all of the information possible before making a decision...and it better be the right decision, too.

I don't see people here bashing the band so much as posting what they think about things. And, that's a good thing. I spent a lot of time on the LB boards where it seemed like most people were sold on their choice as well. I didn't get the impression they were bashing other types of WLS, either.

It's good that you have spent a lot of time researching and have stood firm on what you think is the right decision for you. All of us have individual reasons for making our final choices, whether it is because insurance will or won't pay for a procedure, or because we don't like the thought of losing part of our stomach, or because we want to be able to reverse the procedure we have done.

My final decision to do VSG over LB is that I wanted the restriction for even slider foods and I have a latex allergy that was discovered after minor surgery. I know the LB is supposed to be non-allergenic, but I felt would be that one person who became allergic to the material which composes the band. I'm also allergic to the glue used to put shoes together, so my body definitely knows how to pick it's allergies!

I really do want to hear about your journey with the LB/plication, so I'll be looking for your posts. I hope you are extremely successful!

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

Michelle, I wish you the very best of luck and hope that new surgery of band with plication works out to be excellent. I have not intended to bash anybody for their choice, but rather to share my 10 year experience with the band and why I would not recommend it to anybody now, having the 20/20 hindsight that i do. i cant say that I regret my choice given that it was either the gastric bypass or band - and I still don't want a gastric bypass except that maybe i shouldn't have had any surgery at all a decade ago. you takes your chances, that is what I did.

My stomach is in the process of trying to heal from the damage the band caused, so i haven't been sleeved yet to fully answer your question. One thing that I have observed is not everyone experienced feeling "Satiety" with the band. I was one of those people, that say a year out, could have food in my pouch but still felt hunger in the rest of my stomach. I have some sort of imbalance or something - I am quite literally pretty much always hungry. It isn't because of comfort or emotional eating, it just like there is a signal constantly being sent to my brain to eat more. I am praying that the removal of some of my oversize stomach reduces that signal so I not only lose weight, but I am also free from being hungry all the time.

[ProudGrammy 8,322]

when i told my dr I wanted WLS - he immediately suggest the lap band. that was really the only WLS i have ever heard of.

I went to one of those seminars, after different WLS were discussed - i realized i definitely did not want the lap band.

i chose the sleeve due to complications that i could think of with the lapband.

After reading so many great things about the sleeve, i'm glad i opted for the sleeve.

DOS 12/15/11

[M2G 1,836]

I already have my back up plan in place. I am having the band with plication. I will not be able eat around the band because of the plication, and initial studies have shown that this procedure results in a lower risk of band slippage, band erosion, and there are fewer fills needed and they don't need to start until much later than with a regular band patient or may not be needed at all. Also I have yet to hear of any banded plication patients that have needed to be revised, the closest I have seen was one person who said that banded plication was a planned first step in her weight journey.

I have honestly learned alot of great info from people on this board.

Congratulations on your decision. The reason I stated something about the backup plan in place is because I do believe the band is a temporary solution to a long term problem. I was one who hesitated about having a foreign object in place inside my body and while someone with a pace maker or a knee/hip replacement would also be considered as having a foreign object in their body, there are issues with that as well. There are studies done on using mesh inside the body and and it also can go painfully wrong, and cause problems (sometimes mesh is used to hold the port in place...not sure if that is still done or was in earlier versions of the band surgeries.) But honestly there are things that can go wrong with the having foreign object in your body no matter where they are or what they are used for. So I think as long as you know and have calculated the risks and have decided it is worth the risks, then you are in a good place. Yep the titanium staples in my body are also a foreign object, and yep there could be issues with those staples down the road, but I think our bodies do have an amazing ability to heal and once my sewn-over staple line was healed my stomach has functioned normally ever since. So yes, there is a risk with staples, but I believe that risk to decrease with each and every passing year. Time will tell.

I talked about a back up plan because there are SO many complications with the band. My surgeon's nurse had the band for 5+ years. She did a tremendous job with it, losing over 130lbs. She was the epitome of a "perfect bandster" ...she knew the risks, could nail down the excuses, and was a huge seller of the band for the surgeon. In May of this year she had the surgeon take the band out and do a bypass. So even being the "perfect bandster" did not protect her from the medical risks associated with band. She still doesn't blame the band, and I think is still a big proponent of it, but honestly she is a NURSE working for a BARIATRIC SURGEON and she still had complications. So based on that, yeah, my personal opinion is that there are MANY people who will not make 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years with a band inside of them. You may be an exception and I truly wish you all the best in your new journey. Please do stay on our boad and keep us posted on how things go, you are definitely in new territory and it will be good for you to share your experience with others who might be considering the same surgery.

Also, I think most people reading and/or responding to this thread DO realize that this is a VSG board. The answers you might get from another type of board, be it Band, RNY or DS are going to vary greatly from what you see here. Education is definitely your best friend!!

[omamilam 11]

Here is a prefect example of why it is so damn difficult to talk to people who choose a procedure different than the one you have chosen:

Which one of you are correct?

If anything I think that this illustrates that most of us aren't as informed as we think about the other procedures. We hear about these procedures and then there is the one that you know is right for you and then you start researching. For some you're just looking for all of the positives of what you want to do and reject anything negative. For others you see and hear what can go wrong and realize that you want to go with something with less "risk" and never look back. And for others you keep an open mind and acknowledge that you choice as both benefits and risks and work to come to peace with your decision.

I find it funny that I have not once questioned a person decision to get the sleeve yet nearly every post since mine and been to tell me why my choice is the wrong one. To me it seems like a classic case of cognitive dissonance in the sense that those with the sleeve have made a choice that cannot be reversed or fixed so there is nothing so in order to be at peace with your choice you have to believe that all other options are inferior. I AM NOT SAYING THAT SLEEVERS REGRET THEIR CHOICE.

For those of you who think I am making the wrong choice do you think that I should just not have surgery because I cannot afford to pay for the sleeve on my own, and my insurance will not cover the sleeve. If I should just get the bypass then why didn't you get it instead of the sleeve? Or should I just stay obese because I can't get the surgery that you have? For those of you who have an issue with having a foreign object inside your body, are you planning on telling your doctor no if she says that you need a pacemaker to help your heart or you need an artificial knee to help you walk? Oh and I thought those staples that were used to form your new stomach were permanent.

I already have my back up plan in place. I am having the band with plication. I will not be able eat around the band because of the plication, and initial studies have shown that this procedure results in a lower risk of band slippage, band erosion, and there are fewer fills needed and they don't need to start until much later than with a regular band patient or may not be needed at all. Also I have yet to hear of any banded plication patients that have needed to be revised, the closest I have seen was one person who said that banded plication was a planned first step in her weight journey.

I have honestly learned alot of great info from people on this board. I think that we have several things in common and can share our experiences. We will have the name nutritional needs since we don't have to deal with malabsorption. We should loose weight at similar rates (that is if we all follow our post surgery diets correctly, especially the banders) I think it is important to those of you who needed to revise to go the lapband board and give advice to those that are having problems and frankly there are some people who are on there who you can tell from jump are making the wrong choice but unless they go to the revision forum they won't have anyone to show them the error of their ways. I would be interested in hearing why you chose the band the first time? Was the sleeve not available? Did the reality of getting the fills or how you had to eat and what you could eat differ from what you expected how so? Looking back is there anything in the pre-op process that was a warning you ignored that could have saved you the grief of two procedures? Is there anything post-surgery that could have helped you not need to revise? I always feel like the people who post that their band it tight and think it is a good thing because they need to lose weight are going to be the ones that get in trouble down the line because they'll end up eating around the too tight band or their band will start to erode or slip.

I'm sorry if I tend to ramble but I'd like to hope that we can turn these boards into a place we help get the people who come here for advice to be best for them. I think it is a disservice to discourage someone with a lower BMI who's insurance is never going to approve them for the sleeve from having the band, bypass, or plication. I would rather have someone have a procedure that will help them as long as they put the right amount of work in and do it fully informed than decide to not have one at all or going into a another procedure expecting to eventually fail.

Here is a prefect example of why it is so damn difficult to talk to people who choose a procedure different than the one you have chosen:

Which one of you are correct?

If anything I think that this illustrates that most of us aren't as informed as we think about the other procedures. We hear about these procedures and then there is the one that you know is right for you and then you start researching. For some you're just looking for all of the positives of what you want to do and reject anything negative. For others you see and hear what can go wrong and realize that you want to go with something with less "risk" and never look back. And for others you keep an open mind and acknowledge that you choice as both benefits and risks and work to come to peace with your decision.

I find it funny that I have not once questioned a person decision to get the sleeve yet nearly every post since mine and been to tell me why my choice is the wrong one. To me it seems like a classic case of cognitive dissonance in the sense that those with the sleeve have made a choice that cannot be reversed or fixed so there is nothing so in order to be at peace with your choice you have to believe that all other options are inferior. I AM NOT SAYING THAT SLEEVERS REGRET THEIR CHOICE.

For those of you who think I am making the wrong choice do you think that I should just not have surgery because I cannot afford to pay for the sleeve on my own, and my insurance will not cover the sleeve. If I should just get the bypass then why didn't you get it instead of the sleeve? Or should I just stay obese because I can't get the surgery that you have? For those of you who have an issue with having a foreign object inside your body, are you planning on telling your doctor no if she says that you need a pacemaker to help your heart or you need an artificial knee to help you walk? Oh and I thought those staples that were used to form your new stomach were permanent.

I already have my back up plan in place. I am having the band with plication. I will not be able eat around the band because of the plication, and initial studies have shown that this procedure results in a lower risk of band slippage, band erosion, and there are fewer fills needed and they don't need to start until much later than with a regular band patient or may not be needed at all. Also I have yet to hear of any banded plication patients that have needed to be revised, the closest I have seen was one person who said that banded plication was a planned first step in her weight journey.

I have honestly learned alot of great info from people on this board. I think that we have several things in common and can share our experiences. We will have the name nutritional needs since we don't have to deal with malabsorption. We should loose weight at similar rates (that is if we all follow our post surgery diets correctly, especially the banders) I think it is important to those of you who needed to revise to go the lapband board and give advice to those that are having problems and frankly there are some people who are on there who you can tell from jump are making the wrong choice but unless they go to the revision forum they won't have anyone to show them the error of their ways. I would be interested in hearing why you chose the band the first time? Was the sleeve not available? Did the reality of getting the fills or how you had to eat and what you could eat differ from what you expected how so? Looking back is there anything in the pre-op process that was a warning you ignored that could have saved you the grief of two procedures? Is there anything post-surgery that could have helped you not need to revise? I always feel like the people who post that their band it tight and think it is a good thing because they need to lose weight are going to be the ones that get in trouble down the line because they'll end up eating around the too tight band or their band will start to erode or slip.

I'm sorry if I tend to ramble but I'd like to hope that we can turn these boards into a place we help get the people who come here for advice to be best for them. I think it is a disservice to discourage someone with a lower BMI who's insurance is never going to approve them for the sleeve from having the band, bypass, or plication. I would rather have someone have a procedure that will help them as long as they put the right amount of work in and do it fully informed than decide to not have one at all or going into a another procedure expecting to eventually fail.

Shelly, I'm very informed in both, because I've had both.

Oma is correct and for ME and my experience Maddy is not. I was never able to eat normally with my band. I was forced to eat slider foods because that was all I could eat. I never found my sweet spot, either I was too loose or too tight. This knowing because my Dr. would fill / unfill me (over 20+ times in the course of my band days) the minimum and I'd still be this way.

Also after having my revision, I learned it was not my fault because I totally rocked my sleeve and hit goal in almost 7 months. I am beyond goal now.

HTH - and remember, this was my personal experience only. Everyone is different.

Thanks LilMissDiva. Apparently Doctors agree with both of us.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Endobariatric#p/c/DCC7DC6C03E9469B/14/5rTcnv40efE

Oma

[omamilam 11]

Maddy obviously didn't watch the Doctor video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Endobariatric#p/c/DCC7DC6C03E9469B/14/5rTcnv40efE

Bottom line..........do the procedure that best suits you. Just be sure you do ALL your homework so you have no regrets later. A sincere Good Luck on your final decision. Keep us posted on your surgery and progress. Oma

[Trixie 4]

My doctor was very candid with me about my choices when I made my decision. Here is what he told me:

1. All WLS is PERMANENT. Do not think of a lap band as a reversible procedure because it is not, not really. The only reason they ever remove the lap band is because of complications. It is designed to be a permanent implant. All WLS is surgery, and all WLS has a risk of complications.

2. The band is a good choice for people with a BMI of 40 or less since it produces relatively less weight loss than the other procedures. It requires a lot of dedication, as you will still feel hunger even though you will feel full on less food. You also need to be available for lots of follow-up with your surgeon to allow the band to be continually adjusted as you heal and There are complications with the band that range from adjustment issues (under or over-filling the band) to ulcers and perforations of the stomach wall.

3. The vertical sleeve gastrectomy is also a good choice for people with a BMI of 40 or less, but it produces consistently more weight loss than the band. It requires a commitment of at least three months of healing time, during which time you will gradually add foods back into your diet. But, with no adjustments to be made, you will have fewer follow-ups with your surgeon. Like the band, the result of the surgery is a reduced-size stomach pouch, but unlike the band, your surgeon actually removes the part of your stomach that produces ghrellin, the hormone responsible for sending hunger signals to your brain, so you won't feel hungry despite being on a reduced calorie diet. Complications are mostly related to the surgery itself (e.g. leaks in the initial stapling), and to failure to follow the post-op dietary instructions and rushing into eating solid foods too quickly.

I chose the sleeve because I did not want a permanent foreign implant in my body, because eI don't have time for constant adjustments, and because I didn't want to feel hungry all the time. My doctor agreed with my choice, but at the end of the day, it was MY choice. Read all of the information on both procedures and figure out what is important to you. I wish you all kinds of luck in making your decision.

[Shellyac 22]

Maddy obviously didn't watch the Doctor video.

http://www.youtube.c.../14/5rTcnv40efE

Bottom line..........do the procedure that best suits you. Just be sure you do ALL your homework so you have no regrets later. A sincere Good Luck on your final decision. Keep us posted on your surgery and progress. Oma

I did watch the video and I have some concerns about it

1. The doctor does not site any research in regards to his claims. You should not trust a medical professional who cannot refer you to research that supports their claims. And you should not trust a medical professional that wants to preform something on you that does not have some scientific evidence to support that it will work.
   
2. The doctor that made the statement offers both the lap band and the plication to his patients. If he honestly felt that they were dangerous for his patients wouldn't he be ethically obligated to not offer them or is he willing to put his objections aside in favor of getting paid by the people who still want those procedures over his objections or does he plan to change their mind once they come in, which for most will be the day they come in for surgery and probably don't have the time to research the consequences of changing their mind.
   
3. The ASMBS has published a statement about plication. In essence they say, it is a new procedure. There is insufficient published research to make a decision this time but they support continued research.
   

The ASMBS has also published a statement about the sleeve

"The ASMBS therefore recognizes SG as an acceptable option as a primary bariatric procedure and as a first stage procedure in high risk patients as part of a planned staged approach."

But you may be surprised to know that that statement was only published in October 2011 This recommendation came after 2 other reports that I assume did not recommend the sleeve as a primary procedure. (I cannot access the articles but anyone with access to Surgery for Obesity and Related Diseases can, they are the first two citations in the sleeve statement). I believe like the plication it was because there was not enough research at the time of the first statement (2007) not an indication that the sleeve was unsafe or ineffective.

I am fully aware that the band with plication is investigational at this time and I am excited to be one of the pioneers. If it weren't for patients like me, the sleeve might not have been available as a choice for you. Imagine what would have happened if doctor didn't a patient who wasn't obese enough for the Duodenal Switch (the second phase of the traditional sleeve surgery) the chance to have the sleeve alone.

[omamilam 11]

It appears that I have upset some of you and I am sorry. My previous message was sincere and intended to be positive and encouraging. I do not feel I should be attacked for voicing "my opinion" in this forum. I was only trying to help and encourage research before commitment to ANY CHOICE made toward surgery.

[tamou37 2]

hi guys. thanks for the advises. I had a date of the 10th to have the band but freaked out one day earlier and moved the date to after the holidays. the lap is a better option I guess if I get pregnant soon while I have to wait 12 months with the sleeve. Doctor does both sleeve and band, blood test done for both so it is a matter of deciding. thank you all.

[waterlover 15]

i believe everyone has the right to choose their own surgery for their own reasons. these are mine... i'm not trying to convince or scare anyone it's just why i am choosing what i'm choosing.

first i wanna say, we already have titanium in our bodies so i wouldn't worry about the staples. its an organic element.

now with the plication, can they see inside the folds? can you still get ulcers and gastritis and cancer in that part that has been sewn up? does it meld together over time (which would make it, i guess, irreversible?). i could not do plication because i already have gerd, so it was never an option as they don't recommend it. but i'm curious about the procedure and will follow the long term results. i hope it's successful in the future for the sake of all the people choosing it right now and not something short lived due to failure and complications...

i chose the sleeve over the lapband because

1. my doctor advised me not to have the band (he doesn't perform either procedure and i'm going self pay to Mexico so he has no vested interest or kickback from my procedure). he just said he's had a lot of lapband patients end up having to be revised to sleeves and it would probably be better for me to skip the whole in between and go straight to the sleeve. i understand his thought process and i can see it's something that happens just looking at the revisions forum.

2. i do have a freaky feeling about having a foreign item in my body that's not organic material. i'm afraid of developing more auto immune problems from it.

3. i truly believe once your sleeve has healed up, you should not have to worry about complications and live your life. this might take up to six months (as i've read about people springing leaks a time out but not past that mark i believe). with a band people can have a complication any time, even after a couple years of great results. the plication is too new, and again, i don't like the idea of not being able to scope the tissue in case i had cancer ... now i know i could get cancer in my sleeve but i am sure that it would be found much sooner than with a plication therefore giving you a better chance for treatment before metastasis took place.

i was freaked out about losing 85% of my stomach forever at first. but then realized it's still my stomach and will still work like a stomach, it's not being rewired (like with a bypass or ds) and if i looked at it with an xray it would still be a stomach but smaller. i also have had a history of peptic uclers in the fundus of my stomach, so seriously this is something that they would do for me if my ulcers ever got so bad they would bleed etc. i'm just kinda nipping it in the bud this way. my doctor told me they have been doing this for years (the gastrectomy) on ulcer patients and their life expectancy and quality of live has improved.