Lets try not to get out of hand. Keep nasty remarks to yourself(hopefully I can practice what I preach!). Lets all try so we can keep coming on here and having fun.

So I post PROOF, of the left using the same tactics and you just what? choose to ignore it? Is that how that works? That seems very similar to you making up your own definitions to words and using them. You can say all you want I do that to the term liberal, but the only reason I use it is because you call yourself one, you were calling me a neocon in an attempt to insult me, and when it didn't work, and I showed you that you didn't know what you were talking about, you were using a definition that is made up, you decided that definition is the one you'll use anyways, because you want too. My new definition of yellow is a cloudless night in October, does that make it the new definition? You talk about backpedaling, your falling down backwards so hard it's laughable. Literally.

If the use of the term neocon and the meaning that I used it as is good enough for Maureen Dowd (a successful writer for the New York Times), then it is good enough for me. I didn't make it up - it has been used in the mainstream media, as I have used it, and I will continue to use it. When words are used in our lexicon as times change, they often take on new meanings.

The way you use the term liberal, whether in reference to me or in general, is meant to be an insult. And it hardly fits the definition I posted, so you just made up your own definition (wanting everyone to be dependent on the government) Just like calling dailykos crackpot. I find more accurate info on there than any other site and often it beats mainstream media to the story.

As to dismissing your map post. Like I said, two lame maps. Big deal. But what you ignored was all the very specific information I posted, naming names. You have not offered any proof that the majority of the hateful, gun metaphor, anti-government rhetoric comes from the left. You have not offered the names and quotes from anyone on the left who has said the equivalent to what I posted from the right. Because you can't.

And if you go back and look at my posts and yours - you will see that the more I post factual information that you can't refute, the more you attack me personally. That was a trick of pattygreen's too. When she had nothing, she attacked me personally. And you have nothing.

More hate speech with references to killing coming from the right:

Some very nice quotes for a book on Eliminationism. Here's a few taken from his page.

Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for."

Ann Coulter: "We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee. ... That's just a joke, for you in the media."

Melanie Morgan: "I would have no problem with [New York Times editor Bill Keller] being sent to the gas chamber."

"The Political Insight":

Let's start with the following New York Times reporters and editors: Arthur "Pinch" Sulzberger Jr. , Bill Keller, Eric Lichtblau, and James Risen. Do you have an idea where they live?

Go hunt them down and do America a favor. Get their photo, street address, where their kids go to school, anything you can dig up, and send it to the link above. This is your chance to be famous -- grab for the golden ring.

Rep. Jim Gibbons, R-Nev.:

While praising the efforts of American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, Gibbons accused liberals, movie stars and song makers of "trying to divide this country."

"I say we tell those liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippie, tie-dyed liberals to go make their movies and their music and whine somewhere else," he told the crowd, according to the Elko Daily Free Press.

He then said it was "too damn bad we didn't buy them a ticket" to become human shields in Iraq.

Rep. Peter King:

And Joe Wilson has no right to complain. And I think people like Tim Russert and the others, who gave this guy such a free ride and all the media, they're the ones to be shot, not Karl Rove.

Bill O'Reilly:

Where does George Soros have all his money? Do you know? Do you know where George Soros, the big left-wing loon who's financing all these smear [web]sites, do you know where his money is? Curaçao. Curaçao. They ought to hang this Soros guy.

I haven't attacked you personally, I call you a liberal because you consider yourself one, not as insult, you very clearly are calling me your version of a "neocon" as an insult. Funny you just posted that when someone can't refute another post they turn to personal attacks. "Hey kettle, your black" said the pot. The definition of the word liberal is used in the media by many and has the same meaning as I've used for it, so what is that you said? "it has been used in the mainstream media, as I have used it, and I will continue to use it. When words are used in our lexicon as times change, they often take on new meanings." So I guess thats the new meaning then right? Can't argue with your logic. Two lame maps, big deal? Well it's showing the left doing what the right does. I also posted people calling for and rooting for a violent revolution by the left. But, hey big deal, they don't mean it, and if they do, well, not as much as someone on the right would mean it. As for personal attacks, here's one; your math skills are sub par. I clearly stated multiple times the unemployment payout is $1800 a month, in what world does that = $300 a week? Looks more like $450 a week to me. You still have defended the point that the left and the dem's in particular are making people more dependent on the government, it's much easier to just rely on the handouts now a days then actually working. If my buddy were married and she collected the same handout as he does your looking at a combined salary of 3600 a month, thats $43,000 a year, thats pretty decent, especially when you factor in the FREE health care via medi-cal.

ariscus quote: And another statistic they put up on the screen was about obama bragging that 1.3 million jobs were created in 2010, and that he failed to mention that over 8 million were lost, so that puts us at a net loss of over 6 million jobs last year.

Speaking of math skills, I am still waiting for your math to show the net loss of 6 million jobs last year (2010). And that $300/week unemployment figure was an average that I have heard over and over again in the media. Each person's unemployment is tied to the salary of the job they had. If your one friend makes $1800/month, then it is above average. That's still only $21,600 a year. Certainly not enough to support a family without another paycheck.

Ted Rall, Frances Fox? Who even heard of these people? This is the best you can do. Lame. Look at the audience of the people I quoted. In addition, Ted does not call for violence - he was simply saying that historically there are 4 ways to change the government, violence being the last and least desirable. He would prefer people take their money out of the stock market or quit paying their mortgage. Wow! Really violent stuff.

And as for Frances Fox:

So where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations, sit-ins and unruly mobs?” she writes. “After all, the injustice is apparent. Working people are losing their homes and their pensions while robber-baron CEOs report renewed profits and windfall bonuses. Shouldn’t the unemployed be on the march? Why aren’t they demanding enhanced safety net protections and big initiatives to generate jobs?” [Emphasis added]Those are the questions that frame what can best be called a roadmap for revolution. And it’s not long before those questions give way to directions. The first instruction: get angry.

Her questions reflects more on the tea party movement - angry crowds, unruly mobs, demonstrations and getting angry. Again, no violence.

I have posted numerous specific things that those on the right, who reach millions a day, say that refers to guns, violence or killing. You have not commented on any of them.

I, the media, smart people - we all know where the hateful rhetoric is coming from. So, therefore, I am done going back and forth with someone who is in obvious denial and making weak attempts to deflect from the facts.

I will apologize for the unemployment figure, I have searched and cannot find anything that says what I posted. I heard the figure while watching your ol' pal Rachel Maddow the other day, one of her guest's was repeating the number and no one tried to argue with it, I guess I should have fact checked a little better. Of all the shows I would believe info from without fact checking, hers is typically the bottom of the list. I will concede there were not 8 million jobs lost. You keep making personal attacks, which is quite funny, given your stance on what that means. Francis Fox Piven was not talking about the tea party, she was saying, that she cannot figure out why the democrats and more specifically the lower class unemployed American's have not started a violent revolt. Van Jones has stated the same thing. Who's ever heard of Francis Fox Piven? Well, her and her late husband were close friends, and "advisors" to Clinton, and she has been said to be a obama mentor. And we all know who Van Jones is, top down, bottom up, and inside out right? You are in such DEEP denial about the FACT that both left and right wing, or, republican, and democrat alike, have used these target/bullseye's on people, and have both used hate speech, just to say, "those that you have shown don't count because I don't like them" is puerile, and you know it. I'm not saying the right wing doesn't say these things, all I'm saying is so does the left, and for whatever reason, probably your deep seated denial, and blind faith of all things democrat you can't see this. IT HAPPENS, deal with it.

Here's another for you, in 2008 barrack obama(i think a few people have heard of him cm) said, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we'll bring a gun." Just a simple example of how people on BOTH sides use the same type of speech. Believe it, or not.

Here is an instance of a democrat doing something I mostly agree with. New CA governor Jerry Brown, looks like he serious about cutting spending.

From the article;

California Governor Jerry Brown said he'll ask voters to keep tax increases from expiring while he cuts $1 billion from universities and slashes public employee pay as much as 10 percent while trimming $12.5 billion from spending.

"We're going to have to live in a more conservative fashion," he said in Sacramento, the capital, today. "Debt is a powerful tool. It has to be kept in balance."

Brown's plan chops an amount equal to 10 percent of the current year's $125.3 billion in spending. Cuts include $1.7 billion from Medi-Cal, the state's version of the Medicaid health-care system for the poor; $1.5 billion from CalWorks, a welfare-to-work program

"Schools have borne the brunt of spending reductions in recent years, so this budget maintains funding at the same level as the current year," the governor said.

Very glad to here that last part, as my wife is a teacher, and they have taken a huge hit in recent years, also looks like not many cuts to public safety, which again is nice. He is asking CA's to vote to not get rid of recent tax increases, and the recent hike in vehicle registration. If only the nation could start down this same rode. While I didn't like Brown, and as usual chose not to vote in the governors race here in CA because I personally didn't agree with either candidate, my union backed Brown, only because we just signed a new contract for the next 5 years that only us or the governor have the power to open and alter, and Whitman said she would, Brown said he wouldn't.

A bit of good news for gun rights activists,apparently this wasn't the first run in with the cops, and more importantly, he made death threats that the cops ignored. so yet again, this isn't a failure of gun laws, it's a failure of enforcement of the laws that would have prevented him from owning them legally in the first place.

A bit of good news for gun rights activists,apparently this wasn't the first run in with the cops, and more importantly, he made death threats that the cops ignored. so yet again, this isn't a failure of gun laws, it's a failure of enforcement of the laws that would have prevented him from owning them legally in the first place.

I don't know how you can extrapolate that this wasn't his first run in with the cops to THAT being good news for gun rights activists. He didn't have a criminal record which is why he bought his gun legally. So effectively, he was that "law abiding gun owner" that I refer to as only being one shot away from being a criminal. In his case it was over 20 shots.

And even though he made disturbing comments in writings, you cannot arrest a person for what they might do.

He was able to buy a magazine for his automatic Glock weapon that shoots 33 bullets in rapid fire. Our law enforcement officers have guns that only shoot 12-15 rounds in a clip (except for SWAT, etc.). There is no other reason for a civilian to be able to buy a magazine that fires 33 bullets in a matter of seconds other than to kill a lot of people quickly. And don't give me that lame "target practice" excuse.

Many in law enforcement are against much of what the NRA supports - like hollow point bullets sold to civilians, and assault rifles.

Responsible, common sense gun owners will support common sense gun laws. Those who don't are called supporters of the NRA.

Here is an instance of a democrat doing something I mostly agree with. New CA governor Jerry Brown, looks like he serious about cutting spending.

From the article;

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Very glad to here that last part, as my wife is a teacher, and they have taken a huge hit in recent years, also looks like not many cuts to public safety, which again is nice. He is asking CA's to vote to not get rid of recent tax increases, and the recent hike in vehicle registration. If only the nation could start down this same rode. While I didn't like Brown, and as usual chose not to vote in the governors race here in CA because I personally didn't agree with either candidate, my union backed Brown, only because we just signed a new contract for the next 5 years that only us or the governor have the power to open and alter, and Whitman said she would, Brown said he wouldn't.

I refer to your opinion about teachers as the "Cheney syndrome". If Cheney didn't have a daughter who was a lesbian his opinions of gays would be to shoot them at sunrise. Those on the right have made it open season on public employees, unions in general and teachers especially as the cause of all our state financial woes. So, I suspect that if your wife wasn't a teacher you would concur with their opinions. We all protect our own. We only look out for ourselves. If we have it it's because we worked hard and deserve it and did it all by ourselves. If you don't have it it's because you are lazy, shiftless, don't deserve it, and besides - you spend your money on big screen tv's....because I know someone who.....

and btw, I totally support teachers, nurses, firefighters and police and believe them to be the most unappreciated and underpaid workers we have for the work they do. I applaud your wife's work.

One of the biggest causes of state's financial woes was the loss of so much of their investments in the stock market during the bush years that was to fund pensions. Another big cause is the increased need for government services due to so many being unemployed. And a third reason is that with so many being unemployed there are fewer paying taxes.

The best thing to reduce deficits - federal and state- is to get people working. Not cutting services. And the best way we can get people working is to get corporate America to get their asses off the 2 trillion in assets that they are sitting on. There is consumer demand out there. But corporations don't want to hire. Government has gone pretty much as far as they can to improve conditions for economic growth - like allowing businesses to write off 100% of capital improvements. Imagine if I could do that when I put a new roof on my house? And there have been many, many small business tax breaks and incentives. It's time for Wall Street to man up and contribute to this economic recovery that served them well, starting with the bailout and continuing with their obscene CEO bonuses.

There are several reports (unconfirmed) that he was making phone death threats and the cops told them not to Press charges as he was being taken care of by the mental health system. If true, they ****ed up. Which shows, if the police had properly done the job, he would not have been allowed to purchase or own a weapon.

I'm not sure you fully understand the difference in certain weapons, the weapon he used was a Glock 19, which is SEMI-AUTOMATIC, you claim that he was using an automatic weapon, which means he pulls the trigger once and fires all of the rounds, what he had in FACT was semi auto, meaning he had to pull the trigger once per round fired, this does make a big difference many ways, first and most importantly he wouldn't have been able to control an automatic Glock 19 with a 30 round magazine, without a shoulder stock attached to it which he didn't have. And while it's called a 30 round magazine it only holds 29 rounds. One bullet doesn't make any difference, the facts should be out there, factually. These are not semantics, these are FACTS.

There are several reports (unconfirmed) that he was making phone death threats and the cops told them not to Press charges as he was being taken care of by the mental health system. If true, they ****ed up. Which shows, if the police had properly done the job, he would not have been allowed to purchase or own a weapon.

I'm not sure you fully understand the difference in certain weapons, the weapon he used was a Glock 19, which is SEMI-AUTOMATIC, you claim that he was using an automatic weapon, which means he pulls the trigger once and fires all of the rounds, what he had in FACT was semi auto, meaning he had to pull the trigger once per round fired, this does make a big difference many ways, first and most importantly he wouldn't have been able to control an automatic Glock 19 with a 30 round magazine, without a shoulder stock attached to it which he didn't have. And while it's called a 30 round magazine it only holds 29 rounds. One bullet doesn't make any difference, the facts should be out there, factually. These are not semantics, these are FACTS.

So, it was semi-automatic. That doesn't change the point I was making. No civilian needs to be able to buy a clip for a semi-automatic gun that shoots 33 bullets in a short period of time. The only reason would be to kill as many people as you can in the shortest period with a weapon that is easily concealed. So, I oppose the sale of these types of clips to civilians.

So by your logic you only support teachers because you and your late husband were teachers? And I imagine you have some proof Cheney would hate gays if his daughter wasn't one? What is wrong with having something affect your life and enlighten your viewpoint? Why is that horrible. You tried to say the same thing about me, because I have to cousins and several friends who are gay, your claim was the only reason I'm okay with gays is because I'm related to some and know a some, well, what is wrong with that, if I wasn't related or friends with them, maybe I wouldn't know all that I do about them. Life is a learning experience, and I'll take all the opportunities presented to me. For the record I don't ever remember having a problem with gays, and was pretty happy for my two cousins when they told me, as both had lived lives full of horrible relationships with men, and when they discovered in themselves what they did, they both seemed much happier.