How important are the rules really?

[oldoneyoungagain 200]

The battle was lost, possibly left with tail between legs. White flag flying. Who knows, but a debator he/she wasn't. All the postings were awesome and a lot of insight. Bravo, everyone.

[joho 0]

I'm still waiting to hear from that successful long term bandster who doesn't think its important to follow their Dr's rules. We have heard from a few newly banded ones but not anyone who has had their band over a year and is at or near goal, someone who doesn't consider themselves slow losers. I wonder why?

Actually I did reply on page 2 and although my wight loss is not as much as a lot and I could probably do with losing a few more kgs I am actually happy where I am, I have been at this weight for more that 18 months.

Sometimes life can dictate what you can and cannot eat. For me I have an added issue of MS diagnosed only 6 weeks after my band was fitted and totally out of the blue. At first it didnt seem to make any difference to my band or vice versa but after a few months as my MS progressed at first, my stomach muscles became sluggish. I have to work with what my body will allow me to eat. If my MS is not playing up I can eat very well and sensibly. If my MS is a little flared up my muscles will not push food through even Soup or mashed potato. I have to resort to a very thin Soup, a milk drink or similar and maybe a coke for some sugar as NOTHING will stay down, sometimes even they wont either. this can last for up to 3 weeks and then I am very down and begin to hate the band and then the next day I could be fine again. This is the reason why I have had so much out my band that my doc actually says that I am at the stage where no more can come out as its basically empty anyway but still I have the same issues but not so often.

Each step of the way I have discussed my issues with my doc, who has been very supportive. I realise that I am not the norm but everyone is different and we should support them rather than criticise them. The OP has probably run for cover and will never post again and I think that is a shame for them.

Jo

[LeighaMason 19]

Jo- I had read your post on page 2 but I didn't think you were advocating flouting your Dr's advice. To me it sounds like y'all work together to meet your individual needs. Which I think is a wonderful thing.

[joho 0]

Jo- I had read your post on page 2 but I didn't think you were advocating flouting your Dr's advice. To me it sounds like y'all work together to meet your individual needs. Which I think is a wonderful thing.

Thats cool:thumbup:. I am not perfect by any stretch when things are going well, just not enough to put any weight on.

My only thing is that I feel for the OP, I re-read his original post and am sure that heaps of people agree with or would love to ask these questions. Maybe its not a good thing to do but I am disappointed with a lot of the (in my opinion) judgmental replies. There are ways of saying dont be an idiot without sounding mean. This is meant to be a supportive site for people to come for support and advice not criticism.

Jo

[LapNYC 3]

But see...I wasn't judging him for his questions. We've all had most of the same questions. They're not original at all, but they're not offensive either. I've been very good about following my doctor's advice since my surgery BUT I ate a bagel during my pre-op liquid diet. So who the hell am I to judge? It was the tone that bothered me. A lot of people here have gone through a lot to make the most of their bands and I think that they deserve a little respect from Mister disappearing fake rebel 'mixed messages much' guy!

[lellow 1,713]

Like Jachut (and also from Australia) I wasn't given a lot of rules to follow. I had a post-op diet, which I followed, after which I was told to eat healthily, exercise at least 20 mins 3 times a week, and only eat when I was hungry.

I didn't do low carb, didn't count calories, ate a balanced diet from all food groups, I drink alcohol (always have) and I exercised. I started with a relatively low BMI too and I lost all the weight I needed to within 7 months, then lost more, and then have maintained for over a year now.

I think following the post-op diet is important because that's when you're healing. But after that, how you lose is pretty much dependant on you, and how sensibly you eat.

Mind you, I don't drink carbonated drinks coz they make me feel sick. If something doesn't 'sit well' with me, I don't eat/drink it. But I try everything at least once.

Personally I think if I'd had too many rules to follow, I would have been more likely to fall off the wagon. Having few rules made it easier to 'follow' the rules I did have. I even drink with meals sometimes, when I'm out at a restaurant. Then again, I'm not very restricted anymore. :waytogo:

[SavvyCat 0]

The battle was lost, possibly left with tail between legs. White flag flying. Who knows, but a debator he/she wasn't. All the postings were awesome and a lot of insight. Bravo, everyone.

WOW!!! I hate to disappoint you all... flag isn't flying nor do I feel it should be. My post was the first time I have ever posted anything on anything. I haven't logged on until now because I have 11 mo old twins and have little free time. I stole some time on Friday to ask what I felt to be legitimate questions from those who have walked a similiar path. Some of you chose words or phrases to sink your teeth into, rather than absorb my entire posts. I was not advocating for patients to ignore their doctor's orders. I did not say that I ignore ALL of the "rules", but noted the ones I was conflicted with. There are leaders & followers - I am neither, which is why I looked to the "sheep" &/or the non-sheep for some help. Clearly I am not so vain as to think that I have all the answers or I wouldn't have asked the questions. I skimmed through many of the responding posts and was shocked by the animosity in many of them. Really? Is being successful in doing things your, (or your doctor's way), cause to be so hateful? Everyone who posted was unsuccessful enough in dieting to be banded and I'll venture to guess suffered some judgement during their "fat lives". If what I posted made you feel judged then re-read the posts and take a look at yourself, because it was not what I intended. Some of you can't say the same. In the meantime I'll continue to tread Water until I figure out what works best for me. BTW, I was banded on 3/15/10 - I have lost 28lbs. & 4" off both my hips & waist. Could I have lost more? Hell yeah, but the band wasn't put in my brain and I have years of bad habits to unlearn.

[joho 0]

But see...I wasn't judging him for his questions. We've all had most of the same questions. They're not original at all, but they're not offensive either. I've been very good about following my doctor's advice since my surgery BUT I ate a bagel during my pre-op liquid diet. So who the hell am I to judge? It was the tone that bothered me. A lot of people here have gone through a lot to make the most of their bands and I think that they deserve a little respect from Mister disappearing fake rebel 'mixed messages much' guy!

I think you may have read the question and her response in the wrong tone, again I have just been to read her posts and I can't see anything wrong with what she wrote. Even the bit about sheep was I think not meant to offend just a description (probably not a good one). I am still baffled to be honest. And as she has just explained she doesnt have much free time so. I probably would have been in tears with all the comments, and gutted when I was feeling so down that I got creamed instead of supported.

Not meant to offend just my point of view and to give the poor OP a bit of support.

Jo

[Marine mom 3]

When people choose to use words like "sheep" to describe the behavior or others it is offensive. Choosing to follow the suggestions of the experts in the field is usually called smart. If I follow the advice of the people who know the system, my car can last twice as long with half the problems. (yes, we have a 15 year old honda with 500,000 miles on it).

I think that people need to work with their experts, study on their own, and talk some more.

As I said earlier, many of the rules are there because many people have problems with those issues. If you don't, then, number 1, count yourself blessed, and 2, be honest with the people dealing with you.

[Marine mom 3]

Ps...I don't know if you have ever dealt

with sheep, but they are some of the mist difficult and stubborn animals around!

[jarynty 3]

The sole purpose of this site is to help each other with our struggles, praise each other with our achieved goals and maybe recieve some valuable information from the bandsters that have been around a while...NOT TO JUDGE PEOPLE!

However, I do have to admit that the original post did irritate me somewhat because I am a self-pay bandster that had to work my tail off to get this paid for because just like many other insurance companies you have to jump through so many hoops to get approved...anyhoo...

On the soda issue...I LOVE SODA...I would rather have soda than most foods, but I haven't had it since my pre-op diet in early February. It's not easy, but I choose to listen to my doctor (who has been banded himself) and I don't want to chance stretching out my pouch.

On the fill issue...on the day of a fill I can only have clears only, then full liquids, then mushies then back to a regular diet on day four. Sounds brutal and sometimes it is, but I tend to swell alot after a fill and sometimes it takes me longer to get back to regular foods. If you have some form of restriction you will realize how important it is to do this...obviously you have never had a "stuck" episode and then you might realize the importance of this.

Now, just because you have the lapband doesn't mean that you can't ever again have a piece of candy, cookie or whatever it is that you crave. It's all about moderation. And if someone tells you that they have never splurged and have never fallen off the waggon I would tend to wonder if they were being honest to you and to themselves. We all have done it and WE ARE ONLY HUMAN!

Anyway, I hope you continue a healthy lifestyle and wish you luck in your weight loss...and with TWINS???? WOW! I have a 3 year old and can't imagine two...LOL!

Good luck!

Banded 2/24/10

Start 241#

Current 195#

Total so far 45#

[JoiaRox 430]

I'll be a bad bandster and post here...I'm not a rule follower either. I've read and read this site, threads, other research, blogs, etc....and I truly believe this journey is about finding what's right for you. I know the rules and generally stick to them - not because my doctor told me to, but because trial and error have proven that I should. I can't drink right after a meal - PB results. I surely can drink before, and even sip some Water during...just depends on how my body is responding to what I put in my mouth.

Carbonation? I was a Diet Coke-aholic before starting this process. I gave it up and am an avid iced tea (plain) drinker now. But, all that iced tea wreaks havoc on my stomach from time to time and I find that a Diet Sprite or 7-Up helps my stomach deal with it. I stay away from beer (I was a Bud Light drinker, but never NEEDED a regular dose of it), but I still enjoy my screwdrivers (the serving of fruit in the orange juice is great too! lol).

Bottom line? I know the rules. I'm not openly defying my doctor, but I'm taking those rules and utilizing them to make this band work for me. I don't think negatively about myself, nor do I scoff at the extensive procedure I had done. I HAVE lost 60 pounds since starting a little over five months ago. Sorry - I'm not a regular workout kinda gal. In fact, working out generally makes me maintain. When I start to plateau? I'll add regular workout.

The LapBand is a TOOL - how you make it work for you is your choice. I've had 5 fills, am at 9cc in a 14cc band and am stoked to have lost 3 pant sizes in 5 months, in addition to the 60 pounds. I don't count calories (I did in the early months), I pay attention to what my stomach tells me...and I'm a success so far. When I'm not being successful, I'll re-evaluate and change what I need to in order to continue being successful.

Just because you've found what works for you (either strictly following doctor's orders and logging everything in a computer or not)...don't berate others for doing what works for them. We all got fat in different ways, we all have different mental issues that go along with our obesity, and we're all on very different journeys, regardless of the LapBand surgery as a common denominator. I'm happy...you should be too!

[Spartan 4]

I sometimes wonder why some people even BOTHER to get a Lap Band or any other kind of WLS. I also sometimes think that the Lap Band constricts the flow of blood to the brain in some people.

I am quite amazed at the number of people here that advocate doing it their “own” way, and ignoring the instructions that were given to them by the Surgeon, and their team. And the only thing worse than not following the specified protocols is BRAGGING about the fact that you haven’t. By doing so, you are encouraging others to follow in your not-so-smart footsteps.

So…. when you get a prescription from a Doctor, do you ignore the instructions and just dump the whole bottle down your pie-hole…because that’s what you WANT to do? I’m thinking you probably don’t. So, why would you ignore the instructions given after a very expensive and potentially life-changing surgery?

The rules are important, and it doesn’t make any difference whether you or anyone else thinks they are or aren’t. The only one whose opinion matters is the person who PUT YOUR LAP BAND IN. Period. And if you choose to ignore the instructions, then you deserve what you get. And most often, what you “get” is problems with your band and less-than-hoped for weight loss.

So what if the instructions vary between Surgeons. Their installation techniques vary as well. Some place it a little higher, others a little lower. They suture it in differently. They angle it differently. They have their OWN METHODOLOGIES for performing the surgery. And, if they are good at what they do, they have their own, specific post-op protocols that have been developed to ensure YOUR SUCCESS. AND THEIRS.

Good surgeons have a vested interest in you being successful at this. They want you to succeed, if only for the reason that it makes them look good, and will potentially bring them more business.

IF you have selected a GOOD Surgeon who has a proven track record of success with Lap Band patients, there is no reason NOT to follow his/her direction.

One REAL problem in the weight loss surgery industry is that there are a lot of clowns who have jumped on board the WLS gravy train to take advantage of all of the insurance money that is being thrown this way. They are not experienced, they don’t have a track record, they don’t keep good records, they don’t follow up, etc. And this is just one more reason that you need to put some serious effort into finding the right Surgeon to place YOUR lap band. There are doctors that give lousy instructions. There are Doctors that give NO instruction at all. But….there are plenty of very good Doctors out there, and if you take the time to look for them, you WILL find them. And it will be in your best interests to FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS.

I have long been an advocate of following the Surgeon’s instructions to the LETTER. And it’s funny to see some of the people who have disagreed with me on this issue

are NOW recommending that you DO follow the instructions. Funny stuff…talk about sheep…..

So…you think you know better than your surgeon? Well, think about this: You became FAT by following your OWN rules. It’s time to sit down, shut up, and follow the rules of a Medical Professional who has experience in helping people with this problem. Your way DIDN’T WORK. And chances are that your fellow lapbander who thinks that Spaghetti-o’s, Frappucinos, and berry Parfaits are “good ideas” is not going to be of much use to you, either.

People can blather on all they want about this being “Their Journey” and how They “know their own body”, and all sorts of garbage like that, but the simple fact is your “journey” thus far has been a failure, with regard to weight loss. Your “journey” has brought you to the point where you need a silicone noose wrapped around your stomach to keep you from shoveling down so much food. The decisions you have made regarding your consumption of food thus far have been, at best, faulty. It’s time for someone ELSE to begin making those decisions for you, and if you don’t “get” that, you will very likely have a long, ugly “journey” ahead of you.

As human beings, we are imperfect by nature. We make mistakes. We make bad choices. And one of the most valuable lessons we can learn is when to step outside of ourselves, and let someone else HELP US MAKE GOOD CHOICES.

Another part of this that isn’t discussed much: There are a number of people on this board who are self-pay. They can do what they want with their money, I don’t really care. BUT…if you are someone whose insurance is paying for your surgery, and you choose to disobey the rules laid out by your surgeon, well,….I have a big problem with you, and potential Lap Band patients should as well.

Insurance companies are tightening up with their money for Bariatric surgeries. They do not approve the procedures as readily as they did a year or two ago, and a part of the reason is the increasing incidence of failures: Increasing Erosion, Slippage, and the inability of the band to effect the desired weight loss in many people is causing the insurance industry to re-think the way it allocates funds for these surgeries. And part of this reevaluation is because of the nitwits that decide that they know better than their Doctor how to behave post-surgery. They eat what they want, when they want, and how they want, and then whine about how they’ve only lost a third of the weight they need to lose, or their band slips.

YOUR failure has the potential to impact the chances of other people to have their band paid for by insurance. So, if you are not going to play by the rules laid out by your surgeon, you need to stand aside, and let someone who WILL cooperate get their band, and be successful with it. Every Lap band success means that there is a better chance that insurance will continue to pay for this procedure. Every failure diminishes that chance.

Here’s the bottom line, as I see it:

Follow your Surgeon’s instruction TO THE LETTER.

If you do not see significant results in six months to a year, then consider making some changes. BUT….Consult your surgeon first. If you don’t feel like you are getting the answers you need (and that means NEED, not WANT), then consult another doctor. You are not married to your Surgeon. If you feel you have made a mistake in who you chose to perform your surgery, then look elsewhere. Get professional advice. SOME people have been able to be successful with the Lap band by doing it their OWN way. But they are the exception, rather than the rule. You need to do it your Surgeon's way first, and if you are not successful, THEN try something different.

You’ve been doing this on your own for your entire life, and the result has been that you are fat and unhealthy. You need to put someone else in the driver’s seat, and for the first year or so, that person needs to be your Surgeon, or someone qualified on his/her team. And just because someone else on this forum has been successful THUS FAR by creating their own rules does NOT mean YOU will be. It only means that they have been lucky.

Period.

The Cat ain’t so savvy, sorry to say…..

S.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."

- Douglas Adams

Edited June 15, 2010 by Spartan

[elcee 3,340]

Some great straight talking there. Love it. It's good to have you back.

[Marine mom 3]

if by straight talk you mean rude, you are right.

Many of the people here became fat by following the advice of the "experts." it is high time that people take responsibility for themselves and their weight loss.

I have no responsibility to my surgeon or to others to lose weight. I think that surgeons who put rules out there to make their numbers great rather than to support the health of their patients, while good surgeons possibly, are fos otherwise. I picked my surgeon because he is a damn good surgeon. pure and simple. if someone is going to slice into me, they are going to be the best.

he has, unfortunately left his practice and i am forced to find support elsewhere. i will look for someone who supports my beliefs. what is the difference between that and doing what I believe to be right on my own?

My band is just a tool. i don't worship it or the guy who put it in.

i'll even take it a step further with a reminder that the reason surgeons are into this surgery is because it is an easy, steady money maker. they have no training in nutrition, or exercise. they are trained to do one thing and do it well. my dad is a doctor with a specialty. he is awesome at that specialty, but does not know everything about medicine and health by virtue of being a doctor.

I would never blindly trust any doctor even within their specialty. when mom had cancer, even though we were dealing with one of the best hospitals in the nation we still got a second opinion. then we went with the assumption that neither the surgeon nor the oncologist knew diddly about nutrition. We hired a specialist for that.

Edited June 15, 2010 by MissyMS