BJean

Green, is there any chance you do windows?

What has always floored me (although I guess it shouldn't) is when I make some self-deprecating remark because I'm embarrassed, that whoever is there decides they can go ahead and add their 2 cents by agreeing that I'm fat or old or whatever. Either that or someone will say, "oh don't be so hard on yourself, you're not THAT bad." Yeah, right. Just gotta learn not to put myself down, even when I'm trying to be funny - like in the case of trying to get into an impossible raft while fighting off alligators or snakes or whatever. I'd much prefer someone would just laugh along with me and forget it. I got really hurt one day when a good friend of mine who is 5'10" and probably weighs over at least 190 lbs. and her mother, also a big woman, and I went to lunch. (I am 5'1.5" and at that time weighed 180 lbs.) Anyway her mother, having met me for the first time, and knows that her daughter and I are very good friends, says to me, "What's wrong with you that you'd let yourself get so fat? You'd be very pretty if you'd lose the weight." I mean she and her mother are both overweight and big women. What gave her the right to critscize me? But the one that hurt the most, for some reason (I guess because children don't lie) was when I was with another friend and her grandson visiting from California (home of the beautiful people.) We took him to Disneyworld. My friend is older than I and probably about 35 lbs. overweight. We're walking along enjoying the day when her grandson (about 6 yrs. old) turns to my friend, makes a nasty face and says, "Eeuw, she's fat!" Just out of the blue. I didn't even have on shorts or a sleeveless top, so my fat wasn't exposed, but for some reason he focused on my body and was disgusted. No, that didn't make me lose weight either. Just made me feel sorry for myself.

I did not know that about espresso - thepressure vs. steam thing. My little Krups uses steam. I don't buy Starbucks espresso anyway, so I definitely can't duplicate their taste at home. Which is okay since going there is such a treat. Have you ever tried their zuchhini bread? Trust me, if you haven't, don't!! It is like their coffee, addictive!!! When I first get a fill, I can't eat it for Breakfast so I have to wait until it's time for another fill until I can have it and a latte from Starbucks. I do like "illy" Italian espresso to use with my little machine and skim milk makes the best froth. When the new biz gets us making more money than we can think of ways to spend (they tell you to think big!!) I am going to buy one of those cool machines like yours. Then maybe Green will grace me with her presence as well.

Carlene: You must be proud! Those machines are awesome. Which one did you get? I'm one of those addicts who has to have her Starbucks once in a while even if I am trying to cut back on caffeine. We started a new business recently and for our office we made the jump to Keurig. The cool thing about it is that you can make one cup of coffee at a time and it is very fast. I resisted any attempts to change my brew until I started enjoying the coffee my DD had been making for me. You use the little pods and I have a huge selection of coffees, teas and even hot chocolate (if I'm in desparate need of a chocolate fix.) At home I have a large commercial type machine made by Kitchenaide, which was expensive by most standards, but came with a separate hot plate for a second (usually decaf) pot and it's been great when I have guests. Plus I have a small Krups espresso/cappucino machine that makes a surprisingly good cappucino. Almost of the quality that I got hooked on in Montreal. But I've always admired some of those machines in Starbucks. Have you totally mastered the art of the perfect creama? I'll be impressed when you tell me you can swirl it into the shape of a heart, like I saw a girl do on TV.

Wheetsin: Move toward the light.......

Reading your posts is like doing the Tango. Around and around and around we go! Where we stop? Who knows? I guess it will stop when I don't read your posts and respond to them. There's no reasoning with you. Bless your heart honey, you wear me out.

wavy: The argument that the Commander put forth is just plain assinine! How is it any different for heterosexual people (with all of their urges, for heaven's sake) serving side by side than for homosexual people to serve side by side? He's showing his bias big time, and that's the trouble with the, Don't Ask, Don't Tell rule. People can control their urges, whoever they are, or aren't. He's making homosexuals out to be people who have sex like animals - anywhere, anytime the urge strikes them. How patently ignorant.

Fran, you're doing great! Dynamo: Your picture is darling! You're a very pretty lady.

You must not read all my posts or you would know that I do not always take an "attack postition" in my posts. I often disagree with what you post and I imagine that is why you assume I take an "attack position" all the time. You may not like to be opposed by me and that's understandable, but I seldom make my posts personal because I don't feel that makes any sense. I try very hard not to be sarcastic also because I do not think that makes any sense. We had an misunderstanding and I was doing my darned level best to explain why I thought it had happened. I didn't think that an apology was necessary. The misunderstanding had to do with things I posted as well as things you posted. At least that is my take on the issue. On another thread, you posted that you do not respect people who are for a woman's right to choose when it comes to abortion. How can you expect people to respect you when you disrespect others just because their beliefs and opinions are different from yours? One can be decent to people they disagree with and they can respect them as well, even though they do not agree with or respect their beliefs.

Man, you are one super-sarcastic person. Maybe that's why your posts are so hard to understand sometimes. Is that why you asked if what I posted was an apology? So you could take a very little snotty sarcastic jab at me? Nice. Real nice.

Thank you, Butch. Another good post. Sorry if you find my posts unworthy and too focused, but it is difficult to give in to people who are exactly what Mark described. Perhaps I'm too inflexible about the topic too, but I have seen what the country is like for women when something so basic as a woman's right to choose, being taken away from them. It was, in a word, horrible.

Ghetto: So your last post is the one that's correct about the Bible quote? I guess you hadn't read it or forgot the wording when you repremanded me for saying, spare the rod, hate the child. Whatever. The spare the rod, spoil the child thing probably came about because sensible people thought that "hate" is a pretty strong word when it comes to whipping children or not whipping them. Like I said, when my dad used to show us love and affection and assure us that our spankings were for our own good, my sisters and I knew the score. He was feeling guilty for whipping us. Hugging us and telling us he loved us was his way of feeling better about the whole thing and it was an effort to reassure himself that he was a good person and a fine parent. We were not nearly as convinced as he was.

JeninCo and kyethra: I'm pretty much in agreement with both of you. Good to read your posts. Thanks.

Oops no, that wasn't meant to have been taken as an apology. If I had meant to apologize for something, I would have said, gadget I am very sorry for.... um, whatever it was that I felt sorry for. The cheese remark was there because I think this thread is doing a slow death. Now that I've said that, I'm pretty sure it will be revived if it is like other aging threads that have been on the verge of death only to be brought back with another gale force of hot air.

HA! You and I agree on one thing, gadget... nobody should be compelled to abort a baby, ever. But we'll never agree that someone can accurately have a clue how many abortions were performed when they were illegal. It does make a difference whether it is a 1500%, a 1000% or a 1300% increase if you are posting something as fact. The real fact is, you have no idea how much of an increase there has been in abortions since they were legalized. You can say that it only makes sense that there has been a huge increase, but you cannot say it with any real proof. If you want to be taken seriously, you shouldn't cite statistics that cannot be proven. It makes it seem that you are willing to exaggerate the numbers to make your case. It is great that your friend is a foster parent. Does she have any idea if and when the baby is going to be adopted? How old is the baby? I'm sure everyone here will be happy to hear that she's being properly cared for.

P.S. Ghetto- if the Bible is mis-quoted, take it up with late.

ghetto & late: If I understand you correctly then, you're both saying that spanking is not the only effective means to disipline children. Good, I'm glad we agree at least on that. After reading your earlier posts and the Bible quote, it made me think that you believe that spanking is the best way to disicpline a child and that God approves of hitting your child by virtue of that certain passage in the Bible. Btw, ghetto, late's the one who quoted the passage from Proverbs 13:24 "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." I was only going by what late says is proof that hitting equates to love and sparing the rod equates to hate.

Who said that "crack" babies should be aborted? What are you thinking, and why would you assume that pro-choice people are desirous of aborting "crack" babies? The fact is, pro-choice people are not suggesting that anyone get an abortion.

There you go, posting ridiculous stats again. There is no possible way to calculate that there are 1500% more abortions now than when abortions were illegal. You came up with that figure how? There is no possible way to know how many illegal abortions have been performed. At best, that's a guestimate. Ok if you post it and state that it is a guess or an estimate, but to post it as if it were fact is incorrect. late: If your comment wasn't made to be nasty, that's nice, but the fact is that it was nasty. Why don't you worry about how you're going to answer for your sins and not cast judgment on others? That's not your job. And I guess your last sentence tells us that you are not a Southern Baptist Born Again Christian because they believe that the only people getting into heaven, even if someone asks for forgivness with a repentant heart, are Southern Baptist Born Again Christians.

Spare the rod and spoil the child, huh? Sparing the rod is the equivalent of hating your child? Jesus would spank (hit) his child? Sorry, in spite of your Biblical quotation, I do not believe it is so. Besides, just because you spank your child, there is no guarantee that you won't have a child who continues to act out. You speak as if some insurance policy comes with each spanking that says you will have a perfect child as a result. It's interesting to read that some of you have decided that spanking is the proper way to disipline a child and for some reason you've concluded that it is the ONLY way to raise a child who is respectful and well behaved. That is nonsense. Spanking is a much quicker solution to a child misbehaving than for a parent to take the time to understand the behavior and examine the most effective way to correct the child for that particular behavior. Sure, spanking gets the attention of a child who is out of control. It definitely gives you the upper hand. But it not the best way to raise a child and it is definitely not the only effective means to correct misbehavior. Those of you who hit your children, whether you tell yourselves it is out of love or whatever, you are hitting your children - spanking is by definition "striking with the open hand." And just because someone is smart enough to be able to lovingly discipline their child without striking them doesn't mean that they're "trying to be friends with them." It may only mean that they have the patience not to resort to striking their child. There are wild little misbehaved children everywhere you look. Blaming it on the fact that the parents may not spank their children because they want to be "friends" with them, is a total cop out. Physically active and out of control children are as likely to be children of parents who spank as they are to be children of those who choose not to spank. At least we can be sure that those parents who spank can never be accused of wanting to be friends with their children. And that's a good thing because? I am my never-spanked grown daughter's best friend and she is mine. I wouldn't trade that relationship for anything in the world and I could never hit her and then declare that it is proof that I don't hate her.

I've been on Wellbutrin XL for several years. At first it made me not sleep well and I still don't sleep more than 7 hours straight, but the positive effects are worth it. I do not eat as much. My knees do not hurt as much so I move more. I am way more interested in sex. And when I have sex it is much more fun. I am not depressed and a couch potato anymore. It's great for me. I never had any itching or welts. Frankly if I had, I would ask my doc for a different drug. There are so many out now. When I took Lexapro it made me very lethargic. That was only supposed to last a couple of weeks. I took it for about 6 months and the longer I took it the harder it was for me to stay awake. I slept 8 or 9 hours a night and then napped off and on all day. It actually did give me a feeling of well being with no depression, but the lethargy wasn't worth it!

late: That's just it, spankings are not what it takes to mold any children to be moral, respectful and responsible adults. It is just the only way you know how to deal with your child. Think about this, if Jesus had a child, do you think he would ever have hit him? If you say yes, you're dreaming. If Jesus had the patience and love and kindness not to hit anyone, why can't we see it that way?

late, that's a nasty little comment you made to IndioGirl... although it is so in character for someone who believes she is the person who can make reproductive decisions for all of the other women on this earth. Well you can't. And no ugly thing you can come up with will change that. It will only go to prove how unkind you are. Seems to me that you may have some hard questions to answer one day.

You know what gadget, the whole reason I bothered to post anything at all after you posted your link to that article was because I thought you were following the lead of whoever wrote the article by giving the impression that there was shocking news that there are credible studies that prove that capital punishment is a deterrent to crime. I thought the article was clearly just a sensational one to get people stirred up and not because it really presented a definite finding from a credible study. The news was not as sensational as the headline and a few paragraphs would lead one to believe. However if one pulls just those sensational paragraphs and omits the qualifiers, it surely does seem sensational. That's what I had a problem with and I thought I went pretty far in explaining it. You are the one who started the whole personal affront about what I posted. And if you can't understand why I posted what I did, I certainly can't understand why you reacted the way you did. The bottom line on this whole silly bit is that our feelings from other threads where we disagreed have undoubtedly colored our posts on this issue. That's pretty understandable really, since we are generally so diametrically opposed in every other arena. I believe I'm ready for some nicely warmed Brie, preferably with simple little Water crackers.

No, once again you're wrong. Perhaps you're reading through my ultra long posts too quickly. I can't blame you for that! I never said you were against capital punishment, because it is or is not a deterrent. Your posts gave the impression you are FOR capital punishment and that you think that it is a deterrent. If that is not what you believe or want us to believe (which I think is sometimes the case) then it is great that you straighten us out by posting exactly what you want us to think you believe.