ReadySteadyGo

Tap is awesome and knows that she can do this. *(((((Hug))))))*

You can have marriages in the church only. THat would be fine. But the government should accept all marriages or only recognize civil unions for everyone. Patty Green I could care less what you think God Ordained. Blah Blah the bible, Blah Blah. I wish people would stop speaking for God, I'm sure he finds it rude. I would if someone was talking about something they really knew nothing about using my Name. People do the whole seperation of church and state just like they do the bible. They pick and choose what verses in the bible they want to live by, and what they want to force others to live by, and ignore the others. People want seperation of church and state EXCEPT this issue or that issue. We are supposed to have SEPERATION. Complete. Ms. FF. I'm not going to respond to you. I can't be civil with someone who compares my life with a child molester or someone who would be with a horse, or a goat, or a duck for that matter. So, I will just tell you now, that I'm sorry I can't. I wish I had the time and the patience to show you, but I don't. So Ms. PGreen. Do you follow these laws? Do you think someone who doesn't is gonna "fail" along with the pro-choicers and the gays, and whatever else the bible thumpers are screaming about? In the same testament that the bible verse you love to throw around in leviticus? "If a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they punish him, then his father and mother shall take him before the elders of the city and declare, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and won't obey; he is a worthless drunkard." Then the men of the city shall stone him to death. In this way you shall put away this evil from among you, and all the young men of Israel will hear about what happened and will be afraid" Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (Look, they are supposed to kill their kids. KILL the rebellious teenagers! Or at least not let them get married. Being rebellious is a choice!) For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on Sabbath shall be put to death. Exodus 35:2 (Lots of people work on the weekend...Lets kill em...or at least not let them get married. Working on the weekend is a choice!!!) When the lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show no mercy. Deuteronomy 7: 1-2 (Yeah! Kill em. Who said they have a right to live there anyway? If we won't do the right thing and kill them all, we should at least not let them get married. Being in the country that WE want is a choice!!!) Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife. As Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in EVERYTHING. Ephesians 5:22-24 (Oh I get it now! How can gays get married? It's not written in a book who should submit to who! How confusing! They would have to have an equal relationship with communication and no orders. That will never do. I see the light now! Being a submissive wife is NOT a choice! Get off the internet all you married ladies and go ask your husband as meekly as possible to give you your opinion, then beg his permission to type it. Didn't want to submit to your husband. Shouldn't be allowed. Being a strong, opinionated woman is a choice!!!) Now, I don't want your acceptance. I want EVERYONE to have the same rights. Be they rebellious teenagers, countries we have invaded, People who work on the weekend, Wives of husbands, or the abominable gays. If anyone doesn't agree with my lifestyle, they have that right...see I would protect that one too. I would protect your right to argue with me. To live how you see fit no matter how much I think you are wrong. I don't agree with what you say but I'm glad you get to say it. But to try to hold someone down because you think they are immoral is unpatriotic, and oppressive. To take rights AWAY from any group of people is unconstitutional, and hopefully one day we will finally have that seperation of church and state.

Thank you Jaime, and OMG!!! A baby! Congrats, how did I miss that?!? Keep me updated. I'm excited for you.

MacMadame, maybe he was talking about the vote 8 years ago? I know this year it was a pretty close margin.

I just wanted to thank all the people who have posted who understand how important this issue, and these rights, are to people who are denied them. If you don't agree, this isn't a jab at you. I just have been touched by the of passion in the opposition of this suppression. Thank you.

I am stronger than my cravings; I can do this! I am stronger than my cravings; I can do this! I am stronger than my cravings; I can do this! it's gonna be a easy peasy weekend. Cause I am stronger than my cravings!!!

Okay. I'm trying to be patient...but come on. Your little "legal label" means this. finicial benefits for taxes, retirement, property ownership, inheritance, insurance rates, family and medical care, freaking car rentals, hospital visitation and the ability to make medical decisions for an incapacitated partner(very very very very important- If you are not considered immediate family you can be kept out of ICU when your partner of 20 years is dying), Adoption, child custody, sponsorship of a non-American partner, Surviver's rights to Social Security benefits, tax-free inheritance of a spouse's estate. Hey, Family discounts at national parks. An unmarried couple pays about 22 percent more for car insurance than a married one, (Doug Heller- Founder of Tax Payer and Consumer Rights.) Life insurance companies can fight against one partner's "insurable interest" for an "unmarried" couple. When one partner dies, Often they are stuck with huge tax bills for their partner's estate -- married couples inherit from each other tax-free -- and the surviver of a gay partnership is not entitled to get their partners Social Security or federal pensions. Then there is the simple thing of two people loving each other and wanting it to be official...just as official as yours. Plain- The end result in california as I heard it was 52- For prop 8 48- Against prop 8 Like a 400,000 vote difference. Am I wrong? Now in Florida it was about 60- 40. (I would also like to say that the tax free inheritance might be different state to state)

Wow, I had no idea. See now that old law seems ridiculous. Outdated. In louisiana we have old laws that outlaw any sex but missionary style, and we have a law saying you can't spit on the street. Of course, not enforced.

Plain and bbygrl I laughed out loud. I really did. I will have to compare two and tell you which one is better.

Let me add this then I promise to stop flooding this thread. Copy and pasted. Italics from constitution. Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. Clause 1: The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." In other words, no State has the right to ignore civil agreements reached in other States. So if a same-sex couple in Massachusetts, or California, gets married, no State has the right to ignore that marriage. In fact, all States are required to recognize that marriage, because it is a Civil matter. So, if I got married to my SO in a state that it was legal, they couldn't keep me out of the hospital room as she was dying if we happened to be in a state it was not. If not, they can. In many other states they do not recognize even civil unions. All states recognize a marriage. So if I am legally married, even in a state that doesn't think I should be, they can't keep me out. Plus. If the more progressive states allow marriage, then hopefully in the years to come the southern states will take the less (to them) extreme allowance of recognizing civil unions. This is my hope, but if there is no marriage in places like California, then there will be no civil unions in louisiana. I don't care about the word, I care about the rights. Some people do care about the word because they are very religious and want their marriage to be in the eyes of God. Gay doesn't mean Godless. So for them, I fight for it, and argue for it. For me, I demand the same rights that anyone else gets.

Ahhhh, Your the sweetest.

You don't have the same rights with a civil union, this is not about California, this is about step backwards. Besides, most of the Prop 8 commercials were lies. Churches were not and would not be forced to marry gay couples, Teachers would not be forced to teach gay marriage in schools. And the "rights" are flawed because that ammendment in California is flawed. It's not the word I care about. It's certain churches sticking their big nose in government business and disrupting peoples lives.

I agree. Do you know what I think would be good. If the government only recognized civil unions. Peroid. The church's could still have their marriages, and could be married in the eyes of whatever religious diety they chose, but our government only recognize civil unions, not marriages. For the GLBT community and all straight couples. Seperate but equal just doesn't work.

I never said you were a demon, you are allowed your own beliefs. What I said is I don't care what you believe, but if someone was trying to take your rights away whether I agreed with you or not I would fight for you. If everyone was straight (before birth control) maybe the world would have overpopulated ourselves out of extinction years ago. But all that is silly, and I won't discuss biology with you. You feel this, I feel that. What matters is you don't let your beliefs hurt someone else. By taking away civil liberties from a group of people simply because of your own beliefs (be they personal, religious, or other) is cruel. They, I, am asking not for your approval, but for your tolerance. If I choose to get married, how does that affect your belief? How does my marriage invalidate yours? I don't think you are either demon or saint, I just ask that noone take away my rights as a human being because I will not lie to myself or those around me.

What she say? I missed it.

I believe that is how it should be. Noone should be denied rights. I don't think that any church should be forced to marry anyone they do not believe should be married.

I am a christian. I just don't believe in the literal translation of the bible. You have some kind of block in your head that can't grasp that someone can be gay, and religious. One does not mean you can't be Christian.

In california, from my understanding, you just need a majority. It's a very easy constitution to change, and I am sure that if it passes again, they will revote in five years with different results...or the same. But 8 years ago it was a much larger quanity against, and this year it was really close. We, as a country, are learning tolerance. Some people are just slow learners.

It was overruled because it was unconstitutional, according to the california constitution to ban anyone from marriage. That is why is was overturned. It isn't the vote that bothers anyone. Voting is fine. It's that the proposition was started out of state, funded primarily out of state, and has used extremely misleading, and sometimes out right lies in their commericals, ads, and signs. Keep shouting to the roof tops. I really don't care what you believe, but you know what...If someone was trying to take your rights away, I would be standing in the street fighting against it whether I agreed with you or not. I certainly wouldn't support something that did that. And I certainly wouldn't vote for it. Ten years ago people were saying the same thing about interracial marriage. That it was against God, that They races should only marry their own. The thing is that didn't feel the need to make a law BANNING it. I don't have a problem with not marrying in a church, I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE TAKING MY RIGHTS AS A HUMAN BEING AWAY!!! I don't even want to get married, but I don't want someone telling me I can't because of their own out dated beliefs. I think that it is cruel. But the thing is if you are going to spread the discrimination, at least be honest about it. The people who started this proposition (from out of state in the mormon church) could care less about free speech, justice, or voting. They just wanted to force their beliefs on others. They have done this with lies and propaganda. Vote, by all means, but let the people know what they are really voting for.

Old doesn't mean right. My grandmother still throws around the "N" word and won't watch movies with interracial couples. The lady who raised my mom. My Mom is better and more open minded, but she is clouded by the way she was raised. I am smart enough to know that I can love them, respect them, and know that they are 100 percent wrong.

I haven't read your post yet, but what you said just reminded me of the things I've been hearing around here, not that you said them, it just had the same ring. I was talking about the issues not you directly this time. Sorry if it came out wrong. Now let me read the rest of your post. I said "down here" about anti christ. I meant where I live, in louisiana. Get me? "Down here" means louisiana, it's a common term here. I forgot that some people who haven't grown up here wouldn't know that. The things you said reminded me of the things I've heard. Ok. So I will give you that some people voted for Obama because of skin color....but some people voted against Obama because of skin color. I do not think he won because of race, but I think that celebrating that he won despite his race is understandable. I hope the issue dies because of this election too, look, something we can halfway agree on. Imagine that. Maybe next time someone that isn't republican wins we won't say it's because he was black, we will say he had the better campaign. And Obama did, whether you were Republican or Democrat, or neither like me, Obama's campaign was tighter and ran better. I've said many times, I like McCain, but his campaign just didn't go well. I'm not going to touch the comments on segregation.

Jodi- My mom was one of those too. She is an smart, wonderful lady...but we don't agree on anything.

It will take me awhile, but I think your right. I am just still on that learning curve...apparently I'm a slow learner.

I'm up today. Two lbs. :-( Oh well, I'll just keep swimming. It's my own fault. I didn't make the right choices this week, and I know that. So I am not discouraged, I am determined. Determined to stop being a dumb &*#

It's so easy to eat in front of the TV, shoes. It's really hard to watch your fullness and what your putting in your mouth. For sure. I stayed up waaaaaaaaaaaay too late to watch Obama's speech. I woke up five hours later for work cursing myself.