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BUN/creatinin levels can rise because of nothing more than quick weight loss. It's part of why this WLS is TREMENDOUSLY taxing on both the liver and the kidneys.

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18 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

Ash my low carb diet is the same exact amount of Protein as when I was doing my prepping nut diet. 74g. Low carb/keto is only EVER originally intended to be "protein ADEQUATE." If you're upping your protein to more than you need, it's not a good thing. And it means you're not doing low carb/keto correctly.

All I can say is that prior to this, I was eating very well balanced meals. I was also obese and needed to cut carbs to generate a quick change for surgery. I wasn't necessarily eating more than 74grams on purpose. But I was eating less than 20 carbs per day and I still had severe proteinuria. All I'm saying, is that it *can* happen to people. Its not something you can just dismiss.

And what I meant by the liver shrinking diet being more extreme than Keto.... in Keto you still get carbs from lactose, more so than the liver shrinking diet. I couldn't eat cheese or yogurt on my liver shrinking diet, but it is OK in a Keto diet.

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I think I’ll just not try the Keto thing lol

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People say Keto .... but do they mean low carb? Keto has high fat, low Protein, super low carb.

"The general ratio of macros to follow is 70% fats, 25% protein, and 5% carbohydrates"

I don't see how most WLS patients can get to 60 g+ protein, if it only comprises 25% of their calories, especially if they are eating a reasonable amount of calories a day.

I also think that 5% calories from carbs is very very hard for most people to sustain long term. The constant counting and sense of deprivation leads people to fall off the wagon.

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36 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

BUN/creatinin levels can rise because of nothing more than quick weight loss. It's part of why this WLS is TREMENDOUSLY taxing on both the liver and the kidneys.

Fair point, but its interesting. My weight loss actually increased (I lost 40lbs pre-op and 100lbs post op) but my proteinuria didn't stop until after my diet leveled out.

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33 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

BUN/creatinin levels can rise because of nothing more than quick weight loss. It's part of why this WLS is TREMENDOUSLY taxing on both the liver and the kidneys.

My liver and kidney numbers have been picture perfect since weight loss surgery. The only time they ever spiked was when I was on Keto.

To each their own, Fluff....but for having been eating high Protein low carbs for the past 18 years as you've stated....you have a hell of a lot of health problems. Cancer, had to be put back on diuretics after surgery, heart issues. Sorry girl...but no thanks. Not saying there's a conclusive link there, and I know you've gotta do what works for you..........but I'm just as happy to be eating Carb Rich mayo Clinic Diet...off all my meds (save thyroid) and have perfect labs every time.

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The mayo Clinic diet looks very interesting and I think it would be something my husband would be happy to follow with me. He's not overweight but has hypertension and high cholesterol and a strong family history of cardiac issues. He likes to eat healthy and this would make it a team effort!

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30 minutes ago, Creekimp13 said:

My liver and kidney numbers have been picture perfect since weight loss surgery. The only time they ever spiked was when I was on Keto.

To each their own, Fluff....but for having been eating high Protein low carbs for the past 18 years as you've stated....you have a hell of a lot of health problems. Cancer, had to be put back on diuretics after surgery, heart issues. Sorry girl...but no thanks. Not saying there's a conclusive link there, and I know you've gotta do what works for you..........but I'm just as happy to be eating Carb Rich mayo Clinic Diet...off all my meds (save thyroid) and have perfect labs every time.

Let's be perfectly clear here. I have NEVER eaten a "high Protein diet." EVER. That way for me is death. I have eaten a low carb ADEQUATE protein only diet ranging from 60-74g/day. That is ADEQUATE not HIGH protein. LOL.

And, I developed horrible disease states as a result of having a form of blood cancer as a child and being on prednisone for the better part of the first 11 years of my life. As a result I had full blown PCOS from the time I was in puberty and was already hyperinsulinemic. PCOS aka METABOLIC SYNDROME aka Diabetes Type 3 which goes hand in hand with obesity and fat mediated cancers.

I controlled my prediabetes (actually Type II diagnosed by A1C 18 years ago) with low carb. My fat was roughly about 60-65% and my protein was adequate at 60-74g/day and my carbs were around net 25-35g per day. I CONTROLLED the progression of those disease states for longer than is usually estimated I can do that while still being obese. I got surgery for a metabolic reset. I lost from 325 to 260 and could not lose any more without going below the 900 cal/day deck--something I did regularly on low carb in order to lose for awhile but it was excruciatingly painful without the WLS.

I developed cancer because my insulin was already out of control due to my Metabolic Syndrome THAT I'VE HAD SINCE I WAS A TEENAGER.

And my heart issues came from having CLEAR arteries before cancer. And NO HEART DISEASE before cancer treatment. OK? I had left side cancer. Obscenely HIGH levels of chemo to fight the tumors AND radiation to my mediastinum. Over 85% of women with left side breast cancer, chemo and radiation develop CAD within 5 years (and most in as little as 18months) following treatment. I lived but my lovely parting gift is pericardial effusion and a fibrous growth on my heart from the radiation to my heart while they were trying to kill any remaining cancer cells left behind. Do NOT TWIST MY TRUTH--like you try to do with Dr. Atkins.

So let's get the FACTS straight ok?

I'm done with this conversation. Low carb isn't for everyone. But for most people with healthy kidneys, it will NOT harm them. And as they are learning, it might even be a treatment for those with CKD. And btw? I'm off all my meds too except for my cancer drug and thyroid and the omeprazole my surgeon told me I would take for life.

Neither is the mayo Clinic diet for everyone. If I ate what you ate, my A1c would STILL be over 7 and I'd regain at an obscenely high rate. My insulin levels would be in the high 20s and I would most likely have a cancer recurrence.

Funny, I'm 7 years cancer free, and I had about a 30% chance of living 5 years. I give MUCH of that credit to my healers who got the biggest part of it the first time, but also to my diet which has kept the insulin and blood sugars as low as possible while being in SUPER MENOPAUSE from the cancer drug I take.

Edited by FluffyChix

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Let's be perfectly clear here. I have NEVER eaten a "high Protein diet." EVER. That way for me is death. I have eaten a low carb ADEQUATE Protein only diet ranging from 60-74g/day. That is ADEQUATE not HIGH protein. LOL.
And, I developed horrible disease states as a result of having a form of blood cancer as a child and being on prednisone for the better part of the first 11 years of my life. As a result I had full blown PCOS from the time I was in puberty and was already hyperinsulinemic. PCOS aka METABOLIC SYNDROME aka Diabetes Type 3 which goes hand in hand with obesity and fat mediated cancers.
I controlled my prediabetes (actually Type II diagnosed by A1C 18 years ago) with low carb. My fat was roughly about 60-65% and my protein was adequate at 60-74g/day and my carbs were around net 25-35g per day. I CONTROLLED the progression of those disease states for longer than is usually estimated I can do that while still being obese. I got surgery for a metabolic reset. I lost from 325 to 260 and could not lose any more without going below the 900 cal/day deck--something I did regularly on low carb in order to lose for awhile but it was excruciatingly painful without the WLS.
I developed cancer because my insulin was already out of control due to my Metabolic Syndrome THAT I'VE HAD SINCE I WAS A TEENAGER.
And my heart issues came from having CLEAR arteries before cancer. And NO HEART DISEASE before cancer treatment. OK? I had left side cancer. Obscenely HIGH levels of chemo to fight the tumors AND radiation to my mediastinum. Over 85% of women with left side breast cancer, chemo and radiation develop CAD within 5 years (and most in as little as 18months) following treatment. I lived but my lovely parting gift is pericardial effusion and a fibrous growth on my heart from the radiation to my heart while they were trying to kill any remaining cancer cells left behind. Do NOT TWIST MY TRUTH--like you try to do with Dr. Atkins.
So let's get the FACTS straight ok?
I'm done with this conversation. Low carb isn't for everyone. But for most people with healthy kidneys, it will NOT harm them. And as they are learning, it might even be a treatment for those with CKD. And btw? I'm off all my meds too except for my cancer drug and thyroid and the omeprazole my surgeon told me I would take for life.
Neither is the mayo Clinic diet for everyone. If I ate what you ate, my A1c would STILL be over 7 and I'd regain at an obscenely high rate. My insulin levels would be in the high 20s and I would most likely have a cancer recurrence.
Funny, I'm 7 years cancer free, and I had about a 30% chance of living 5 years. I give MUCH of that credit to my healers who got the biggest part of it the first time, but also to my diet which has kept the insulin and blood sugars as low as possible while being in SUPER MENOPAUSE from the cancer drug I take.
Don't leave the conversation, no one will ever get the information that YOU have to offer. I hate that these threads take these turns but we NEED all perspectives out there. So please stick around, continue to help

VSG2017 HW 249 SW 238 CW 167

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Just now, Tealael said:

Don't leave the conversation, no one will ever get the information that YOU have to offer. I hate that these threads take these turns but we NEED all perspectives out there. So please stick around, continue to help

VSG2017 HW 249 SW 238 CW 167

There are two things that always get heated between Creek and Fluffy... Keto and Dr. Atkins... it's best that it stops before someone's feelings get hurt beyond repair. There are plenty of people who can speak to the love of Keto.

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Ultimately, this is one of those judgement calls people will each make on their own...hopefully with a little input from their doctor and nutritionist.

I think it's important to remember that bariatric surgery and post bariatric surgical diet...in the grand spectrum of medicine...are in their infancy.

The first laparoscopic gastric bypass, for instance, was performed in 1994! First sleeve gastrectomy, as part of a duodenal switch surgery...was done in 1988...it wasn't done laparoscopically until 1999!

Diets and fads in dieting come and go. Doctors and nutritionists are all over the map with diet recommendations both before and after surgery.

We're in a very grey zone here, folks. What one doctor will tell one patient will utterly contradiction what another doctor tells another patient. If you really want to make it interesting, look at the advice given to different populations around the world after bariatric surgery!

You pay your money and take your chances.

You do the best, healthiest diet you can, and try to protect your health. Hopefully, you get lots of exercise and keep moving, too.

The most important thing your diet should be (in my opinion)....is sustainable. Something you can eat forever. Something with enough flexibility, you can live with it and not feel deprived. Something that doesn't damage your health over time, that leaves you with good energy, good labs, good quality of life, and a good outlook.

Fluffy, I meant no offense, I know you're a passionate ketovangelist...and good luck with that. Sincerely.

On a happy note, I'm one pound from goal, and inches from walking off into the bariatricpal sunset here pretty quick...so no one has to worry about my "all this Protein will ruin your kidneys" rants before too long. LOL.

I wish each and every one of you success...however you can find it. And long healthy lives free of illness as much as possible.

Edited by Creekimp13

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There are two things that always get heated between Creek and Fluffy... Keto and Dr. Atkins... it's best that it stops before someone's feelings get hurt beyond repair. There are plenty of people who can speak to the love of Keto.
I have been on multiple threads with them but the OP and other people may still want info...

VSG2017 HW 249 SW 238 CW 167

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Ultimately, this is one of those judgement calls people will each make on their own...hopefully with a little input from their doctor and nutritionist.
I think it's important to remember that bariatric surgery and post bariatric surgical diet...in the grand spectrum of medicine...are in their infancy.
The first laparoscopic gastric bypass, for instance, was performed in 1994! First sleeve gastrectomy, as part of a duodenal switch surgery...was done in 1988...it wasn't done laparoscopically until 1999!
Diets and fads in dieting come and go. Doctors and nutritionists are all over the map with diet recommendations both before and after surgery.
We're in a very grey zone here, folks. What one doctor will tell one patient will utterly contradiction what another doctor tells another patient. If you really want to make it interesting, look at the advice given to different populations around the world after bariatric surgery!
You pay your money and take your chances.
You do the best, healthiest diet you can, and try to protect your health. Hopefully, you get lots of exercise and keep moving, too.
The most important thing your diet should be (in my opinion)....is sustainable. Something you can eat forever. Something with enough flexibility, you can live with it and not feel deprived. Something that doesn't damage your health over time, that leaves you with good energy, good labs, good quality of life, and a good outlook.
Fluffy, I meant no offense, I know you're a passionate ketovangelist...and good luck with that. Sincerely.
On a happy note, I'm one pound from goal, and inches from walking off into the bariatricpal sunset here pretty quick...so no one has to worry about my "all this Protein will ruin your kidneys" rants before too long. LOL.
I wish each and every one of you success...however you can find it. And long healthy lives free of illness as much as possible.
I'm going to go there because it needs to be said, it was a low blow to bring up someone's health problems to sway an argument in your favor. It wasn't even necessary.

VSG2017 HW 249 SW 238 CW 167

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4 minutes ago, Tealael said:

I have been on multiple threads with them but the OP and other people may still want info...

VSG2017 HW 249 SW 238 CW 167

I could probably post a link to about 5 different threads that they've debated the topic, if needed LOL

Sorry, I'm not trying to make fun of the situation just hate to risk the exit of two very knowledgeable people because one conversation went too far. everyone has their limits.

Edited by AshAsh1

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I'm leaving at the end of the month (not news, and has nothing to do with anyone here)...so there's really no issue.

I hope Fluff stays. She's entertaining and fits in very well here!

Myself...not so much. And it's cool:) It was a fun ride, but at some point we all get what we need out of Bariatricpal (particularly the Mighty Muffins...God, they were good!..LOL).....and it's time to move on:)

Ash, you're a peacekeeper...and I love that about you. Tealeal, you're a justice and truth seeker, and I love that, too.

Fluff, you just want to get to your damned goal once and for all...and I respect that.

Good luck to everyone.

Edited by Creekimp13

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