VENTING - can vs should

[BigTexasMandy 60]

Sorry this is long....

The first thing I MUST address is the way in which some people talk to on another on WLS forums. Often, I will stumble upon a post because I Google a question looking for an answer in the moment rather than asking something that may have already been asked and waiting. I've noticed a lot of people being extremely critical of the questioner...

Here is an example (in a weak moment -MOMENT being the keyword - I might add... I'm on the liquid diet), I found someone asking if in the pure liquid post-surgery diet stage if they could have sugar free soft-serve ice cream. The first response was from someone who decided that rather than answer the question, they would provide an impromptu lecture on slider foods and how they should be dealing with food post-surgery. While I recognize posting on the internet opens you up to opportunities of criticism, I would hope that most people on weight-loss-surgery forums would have enough common sense to understand that most people on here are adults capable of choosing what they want to do. She didn't ask if she SHOULD eat the ice cream, she asked if she COULD eat it. I'm not saying the concern about slider foods wasn't without merit, but it wasn't warranted in this situation. Turns out, the poster just wanted to see if she could indulge in a lick or two in a social setting (a birthday party or something). She wasn't planning to enter a soft-serve eating contest. And even if she was... SO WHAT?! How does that impact the responder in any way? Why waste the time responding? The question wasn't, "What's an exmaple of a slider food and what are the dangers of a slider food?" UGH!

This leads me to another thing I'm really, really, really frustrated with. NOT EVERYONE HAS MENTAL ISSUES WITH FOOD THAT IS OVERWEIGHT OR UNDERWEIGHT OR IS INCAPABLE OF CHANGE OR INCAPABLE OF LEARNING WAYS TO COPE WITH FOOD ADDICTION. I am not saying it will be EASY, but it doesn't mean someone can't overcome their addiction. I know people from all ends of the spectrum who have accidentally overeaten at a holiday or party or have made a bad choice (food related or not) and I know many people who OBSESS over the food they put into their bodies and have done some serious emotional and physical damage by being TOO restrictive. Here's the point I am trying to make...

WHAT WORKS FOR YOU MAY NOT WORK FOR ANOTHER PERSON. And perhaps this is my unsound opinion, but having HAD WLS does not make you an EXPERT on WLS no matter how long ago you've gone; until you've gone to school and extensively studied psychology, gotten your doctorate, etc. etc. etc., no one wants to hear it unless they specifically ask you hey what SHOULD I do! SHOULD BEING THE KEY WORD!

Yes, some people may find it best avoid slider foods at all costs for the rest of their lives. However, other people will be able to indulge in a few bites of ice cream, or whatever and it doesn't undo all of their hard work or everything they've accomplished.

I have to say that I'm so disappointed when looking for answers to certain WLS-related questions to see so many people 1 - not answering the question directly, 2 - providing emotional/psychological advice, 3 - just not showing a little more compassion to people regardless of where they are in their journey, 4 - assuming you know anything about the person based on a question they've asked. And hey maybe you can tell they're making a huge mistake, but they may have worded the question incorrectly, they may be having a difficult time with something else in their life and they're searching for empathy from someone else who may have gone through something similar... the point is, a simple question doesn't provide you all the facts so stop assuming things about people because they've had weight loss surgery or are contemplating it!!!

On a related note, I'm so disappointed in the frequency in which I read people who start off by replying, "I'm sorry, but..." YOU ARE NOT SORRY! You are about to say something hurtful. If you have to say BUT after sorry, you're just not and you should delete your sentence and go read a book. Unless you're saying, "I'm sorry, but you're totally awesome and I love that you're realizing you're perfectly capable of realizing this is an internet forum and not a conversation with your doctor..." but rarely does it go that way.

FINALLY, I am so tired of reading things that are presented as black and white. I bet there are a bunch of people who disagree with what I have said... okay, fine, but does that mean I'm wrong? DISAGREEING WITH SOMEONE DOES NOT MAKE THEM WRONG AND IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU RIGHT. SOMETIMES YOU CAN BOTH BE RIGHT, WRONG, OR IN BETWEEN!

50 Shades of Grey? TRY A BILLION! AHHHH!

PS - I really need the pureed food stage to arrive... and fast.

[Newme17 3,444]

We're all different, we all handle things differently, we all have feelings, whether they're right or wrong, we all have to choose what works for us. And we SHOULD all be here to encourage and at the right times (when asked) offer constructive criticism.

for ex: I have reservations about the Keto diet. It's not my choice, but I do hope it works out great for those who choose it. I'm not wrong for disagreeing with those who choose it. I will also not go into a debate about it either. Just becomes a mess. Each to his own...

Edited May 27, 2017 by Newme17

[Joann454 1,329]

Lol! The last line cracked me up. I understand what you're saying. The internet can be a cruel place. Take what ya need and...we'll you know.

[PatientEleventyBillion 851]

So you're frustrated because people give opinions you don't like and have an approach you don't like. Congratulations and welcome to planet Earth.

I don't see the cause to have this coddling approach you favor. The issue for many is depression, and as someone who has had to battle it numerous times, it is a life and death issue and should be treated with the cold reality that presents much of us when faced with choices that aren't easy, when the body's organs start to fail due to horrific choices. I've seen first hand how coddling people just helps make them comfortable making stupid decisions.

The beauty of freedom is, if you don't like the opinions or advice of someone, can always ignore it, or like you did, whine about it. It's not going to change the mentality when you're on a forum with people who are highly motivated to change things and someone either wants to eat crap or brags about eating crap.

Edited May 27, 2017 by PatientEleventyBillion

[Apple1 2,572]

we all come here for support. Sometimes we need tough love, but there are many ways to convey that without hurting someone's feelings, and it would be nice if we all remembered that.

[Berry78 4,259]

Ok, so in case y'all haven't figured it out..

Ice cream without chunks fits into the "full liquids" category.

[Introversion 1,876]

Unfortunately, when we ask for free advice and suggestions on weight loss surgery forums, nearly 100 percent of the time the respondents are not going to be 'experts' with fancy doctoral degrees. The advice is free, after all.

If people who want advice and suggestions really need an educated professional, there's the option of paying the big bucks for consulting with one.

Alas, we get what we pay for. If the snarky advice is free, an individual can log off.

Speaking of signing off, many people lie to themselves. They seek only those opinions and comments that will validate their worldview or a terrible decision they're wanting to make, often under the guise of "looking for support" or "needing advice."

In other words, many folks are really seeking Yes-people, cheerleaders, "supportive" Pollyanna types and others who tell them exactly what they want to hear, nothing more. Tough love and blunt advice that opposes the person's worldview or poor decision is discounted as rude.

Sometimes candor and tough love are what the doctor ordered.

[BigTexasMandy 60]

3 hours ago, Newme17 said:

We're all different, we all handle things differently, we all have feelings, whether they're right or wrong, we all have to choose what works for us. And we SHOULD all be here to encourage and at the right times (when asked) offer constructive criticism.

for ex: I have reservations about the Keto diet. It's not my choice, but I do hope it works out great for those who choose it. I'm not wrong for disagreeing with those who choose it. I will also not go into a debate about it either. Just becomes a mess. Each to his own...

I definitely agree with you in that we are all different and handle things differently. And sometimes debate and conversation is warranted. I think what I'm trying to say is that people really jump to providing criticism or opinions in situations where it isn't warranted.

[BigTexasMandy 60]

3 hours ago, Joann454 said:

Lol! The last line cracked me up. I understand what you're saying. The internet can be a cruel place. Take what ya need and...we'll you know.

Unfortunately, it can. I do know that you can't prevent anyone from having an opinion, but sometimes I just don't understand the why and when someone chooses to share that opinion. People don't understand how their words can affect some people. That's more the point I was hoping to make.

And yes, this liquid diet has made me rather adversarial!

[BigTexasMandy 60]

2 hours ago, PatientEleventyBillion said:

So you're frustrated because people give opinions you don't like and have an approach you don't like. Congratulations and welcome to planet Earth.

I don't see the cause to have this coddling approach you favor. The issue for many is depression, and as someone who has had to battle it numerous times, it is a life and death issue and should be treated with the cold reality that presents much of us when faced with choices that aren't easy, when the body's organs start to fail due to horrific choices. I've seen first hand how coddling people just helps make them comfortable making stupid decisions.

The beauty of freedom is, if you don't like the opinions or advice of someone, can always ignore it, or like you did, whine about it. It's not going to change the mentality when you're on a forum with people who are highly motivated to change things and someone either wants to eat crap or brags about eating crap.

My point is that who are we to decide who needs coddling and who doesn't? You read a few words in a forum or blog and you know what they need emotionally? Additionally, how does a yes or no question warrant a lecture? I agree there are posts in which people are asking for an opinion and get what they ask for, but I think people give their opinions when no one asked them. I realize that's the way of the internet, but I just think that a lot of people don't know what someone is going through and it couldn't hurt to show a little human decency. Human decency does not necessarily equal coddling... in fact, perhaps I did not convey this particularly well, but my point was that sometimes questions warrant no emotion whatsoever.

In my opinion, people who favor the tough love approach with strangers probably have some issues facing things themselves. Not everyone is a piece of crap and sometimes tough love makes people feel that way.

Additionally, there's a difference between tough love and being outright rude.

[BigTexasMandy 60]

2 hours ago, Berry78 said:

Ok, so in case y'all haven't figured it out..

Ice cream without chunks fits into the "full liquids" category.

Ha, thank you. (that's supposed to be a popsicle)

[BigTexasMandy 60]

2 hours ago, Apple1 said:

we all come here for support. Sometimes we need tough love, but there are many ways to convey that without hurting someone's feelings, and it would be nice if we all remembered that.

I definitely agree. And perhaps my hunger-laden post did not express that. I don't disagree that in some instance people need a firm hand or some straightforward talking to, but the way in which people speak to one another is very disappointing. I just wonder if some people would actually say certain the things they say to someone's face. I mean to a stranger's face they just met. Maybe they would...

[BigTexasMandy 60]

1 hour ago, Introversion said:

Unfortunately, when we ask for free advice and suggestions on weight loss surgery forums, nearly 100 percent of the time the respondents are not going to be 'experts' with fancy doctoral degrees. The advice is free, after all.

If people who want advice and suggestions really need an educated professional, there's the option of paying the big bucks for consulting with one.

Alas, we get what we pay for. If the snarky advice is free, an individual can log off.

Speaking of signing off, many people lie to themselves. They seek only those opinions and comments that will validate their worldview or a terrible decision they're wanting to make, often under the guise of "looking for support" or "needing advice."

In other words, many folks are really seeking Yes-people, cheerleaders, "supportive" Pollyanna types and others who tell them exactly what they want to hear, nothing more. Tough love and blunt advice that opposes the person's worldview or poor decision is discounted as rude.

Sometimes candor and tough love are what the doctor ordered.

I can definitely agree with what you're saying and perhaps I went a little off the deep end in my opinions. My post ultimately was to address that sometimes someone asks a question and instead of getting a straightforward answer, they get someone who's going on and on with the tough love thing (which fine, I can't stop anyone from doing that) but doesn't even answer the questions directly. It's like people are on a campaign to bring people down when they don't know the motivation behind the question. It wasn't as if the person said, "Yes/No, ice cream is okay at stage ABC. However, don't forget that ice cream can be a slider food." They didn't address the question at all and determined that because someone had a question about ice cream, they had issues with ice cream.

[PatientEleventyBillion 851]

11 minutes ago, Mandy Vachon said:

My point is that who are we to decide who needs coddling and who doesn't? You read a few words in a forum or blog and you know what they need emotionally? Additionally, how does a yes or no question warrant a lecture? I agree there are posts in which people are asking for an opinion and get what they ask for, but I think people give their opinions when no one asked them. I realize that's the way of the internet, but I just think that a lot of people don't know what someone is going through and it couldn't hurt to show a little human decency. Human decency does not necessarily equal coddling... in fact, perhaps I did not convey this particularly well, but my point was that sometimes questions warrant no emotion whatsoever.

In my opinion, people who favor the tough love approach with strangers probably have some issues facing things themselves. Not everyone is a piece of crap and sometimes tough love makes people feel that way.

Additionally, there's a difference between tough love and being outright rude.

People give advice and opinions how they give advice and opinions. If you're offended by people not taking a coddling approach ignore them. Every day we're bombarded with information and have to decide what's relevant to us and what's not. This is no different. Whining won't change how people are. The world does not adjust and conform to you, it's vice versa.

Edited May 27, 2017 by PatientEleventyBillion

[BigTexasMandy 60]

1 minute ago, PatientEleventyBillion said:

People give advice and opinions how they give advice and opinions. If you're offended by people not taking a coddling approach ignore them. Every day we're bombarded with information and have to decide what's relevant to us and what's not. This is no different. Whining won't change how people are.

And your reply won't change how people are either... did it feel productive what you said? Do you feel as if you changed me and my whininess? I believe this post stated this was a vent/rant... I wonder how calling my whiny will change my opinion or improve your life...