Christian Boylove Forum - It's good to see mainstream Christians loosening up a bit

[princess_n_thep 2]

Okay, I had to go check out the site to see what all the hoopla was about. Nosey me I guess.

In any case, I started to read some of the prayers and stuff. It seems to me to be a site dedicated to change and rehabilitation through christianity. Most of the prayers on there are asking for help in fixing their disturbing thoughts and feelings. Most are supportive about changing their actions and they are recognizing a concern and problem. I don't think that the site is for advocating abuse of young children. It is just an outlet for people to go who recognize their issues and want to have a safe outlet to vent and reach out to others????

So as disturbing as the site may be to some of you and your feelings about the subject, I would think that you would want to support them changing and making an effort to NOT be a pedophile. There isn't much public support of rehabilitating pedophiles or predators at all. I don't agree with how they feel or what they may or may not have done yet, but I do agree with people having an outlet and recognizing a need for change.

[AshevilleEddie 14]

That site is very disturbing. I have a problem with ANY grown person having crushes on children regardless what their sexual preference is. :cry

Please let me point out something here (and I'm not picking on you ragdollx19 - I've seen many people post the exact same thing). The term sexual preference implies that the gender to which one is attracted for sex is matter of whim. In reality, sexual orientation defines to whom one is attracted both sexually and emotionally. If you read some of my posts on other threads you will understand that I would have preferred to be heterosexual. However, my sexual orientation is in fact homosexual. My sexual preference is OFTEN!! :heh:

[Betsyjane 2]

1. I don't think this thread should be banned. we ARE in Rants and Raves.

2. I don't see the site as rehabilitative. One post of the 10 commandments of boy love seems to be gleeful about stalking and raping boys. I think they're just jacking off together on the site.

3. I haven't read that anyone here is pro-pedophilia.

What I have heard is that Christians don't like to be put down because someone has a site about Christian pedofiles, and that gays don't want to be put down by being linked to pedophilia. So to me, this thread is about the damage of stereotyping.

[Carlene 12]

Please let me point out something here (and I'm not picking on you ragdollx19 - I've seen many people post the exact same thing). The term sexual preference implies that the gender to which one is attracted for sex is matter of whim. In reality, sexual orientation defines to whom one is attracted both sexually and emotionally. If you read some of my posts on other threads you will understand that I would have preferred to be heterosexual. However, my sexual orientation is in fact homosexual.

Do you think that the orientation of pedophiles (children as sex objects) is unchangeable? I do. I think they are powerless to change and as much as I feel for them, I also believe they should NEVER be allowed to roam freely within society, once they have crossed the line and actually touched a child.

I respect the fact that they have rights, but those rights are nothing, IMHO, compared to the very risk of child molestation.

[Betsyjane 2]

I agree, but I think it's interesting that we've stopped at pedophiles. There are lots of career criminals who will never change. Why are they roaming society? On what basis do we get to choose to limit freedoms for some and not others? Murderers, drug dealers, rapists, aggravated assault.... Shall we put our money into building more and more prisons? Freeing up death penalty regulations? Build a big island? Make them wear scarlet letters in public?

I don't know the answer, but I'd certainly be in favor of a prison system that makes them work off the cost of their stay...and keeps them out of some trouble through hard work. I don't buy the arguments that it either infringes on their rights, or that it takes jobs away from other noncriminals. I just don't thhink their prison stays should cost us anything.....

[AshevilleEddie 14]

Do you think that the orientation of pedophiles (children as sex objects) is unchangeable? I do. I think they are powerless to change and as much as I feel for them, I also believe they should NEVER be allowed to roam freely within society, once they have crossed the line and actually touched a child.

I respect the fact that they have rights, but those rights are nothing, IMHO, compared to the very risk of child molestation.

I don't think so. I don't really think that pedophilia would classify as an orientation any more than rapist would.

[Carlene 12]

I don't think so. I don't really think that pedophilia would classify as an orientation any more than rapist would.

Really? So you think they CHOOSE to be sexually attracted to children? How interesting...

Why do you think anyone would CHOOSE to put themselves thru that? It must be the most despised group in the entire world. I can't imagine that anyone would deliberately sign up for that.

[leatha_g 4]

Very good point, Carlene. I agree.

[Carlene 12]

I agree, but I think it's interesting that we've stopped at pedophiles. There are lots of career criminals who will never change.

You're right, but robbing convenience stores isn't a deviant act and the culprits are not driven by some dark force to commit robbery. They could stop if they wanted to. Thieves are just lazy and do not respect the law.

True Pedophiles suffer from a morbid desire to have sex with children. They can't change that, any more than a gay man can change the fact that he is attracted to other men.

Pedophiles can be physically or chemically castrated. That's about the only "cure" there is, and it isn't always successful.

[marjon9 6]

I agree, but I think it's interesting that we've stopped at pedophiles. There are lots of career criminals who will never change. Why are they roaming society? On what basis do we get to choose to limit freedoms for some and not others? Murderers, drug dealers, rapists, aggravated assault.... Shall we put our money into building more and more prisons? Freeing up death penalty regulations? Build a big island? Make them wear scarlet letters in public?

I don't know the answer, but I'd certainly be in favor of a prison system that makes them work off the cost of their stay...and keeps them out of some trouble through hard work. I don't buy the arguments that it either infringes on their rights, or that it takes jobs away from other noncriminals. I just don't thhink their prison stays should cost us anything.....

These are some of the toughest questions a society can face, and there are no perfect answers. You ask "on what basis do we get to choose to limit freedoms of some and not others." I think that the best we can do to answer that is to follow the Constitution. The Supreme Court has held, for example, that it is constitutional to confine sexual predators in civil confinement past the time of their sentence on the criminal charge, on the ground that they are mentally ill. Scientific evidence supports the proposition that sexual predators can't change. Hence, the ability to keep them past the conclusion of their sentences. I don't know the current state of the law on this, but the Supreme Court made such rulings in the past.

But apparently you can't do the same thing with a murderer/robber, white collar criminal, etc. As a society, I don't think we are prepared to say that anyone who commits a crime goes to prison for life, period, because there is a good chance they can't change. That's just not something we are willing to do. These are not perfect answers, but they are probably the best we can do.

To me the bigger issues in criminal justice these days is absurdly long sentences for low level drug dealers, etc. I don't remember the statistics, but for African American males the numbers who end up in jail are just beyond comprehension. Is this because African Americans are evil? Or "natrually" criminals. I don't think there are many who still believe things like that. I think we need to face upt to the fact that part of this has to do with common ills of society, and when society gives no meaningful opportunity to rise out of poverty, and instead just puts a whole generation in prison, something is out of balance. I know, I know, the liberal in me is bubbling to the surface, but what the heck. Once I get on a roll spouting truth for the masses, it's hard to stop.

[AshevilleEddie 14]

Really? So you think they CHOOSE to be sexually attracted to children? How interesting...

Why do you think anyone would CHOOSE to put themselves thru that? It must be the most despised group in the entire world. I can't imagine that anyone would deliberately sign up for that.

To be honest Carlene, this is the same song I've heard all my life, just a different verse. Because I'm Gay, I've been compared to pedophiles, rapists, prostitutes, what have you. I didn't really expect it to come from you though, particularly the emphasis on "CHOOSE" since you know I didn't CHOOSE my orientation. Unless I've taken your reply incorrectly, I'm actually quite disappointed. I would have expected it from others, just not from you... :phanvan

[Sunta 4]

To be honest Carlene, this is the same song I've heard all my life, just a different verse. Because I'm Gay, I've been compared to pedophiles, rapists, prostitutes, what have you. I didn't really expect it to come from you though, particularly the emphasis on "CHOOSE" since you know I didn't CHOOSE my orientation. Unless I've taken your reply incorrectly, I'm actually quite disappointed. I would have expected it from others, just not from you...

__________

MsDad, I don't think Carlene's intention was to compare being Gay to being a pedophile, just by saying that both are unchangeable.

I should let her speak for herself, but I don't think she would make this comparison.

I have heard, seen, and read interviews with pedophiles, and it is their feeling that their condition is unchangeable, and that it is an orientation. I saw a special on them on a news program (something like 60 Minutes maybe), and this one guy, he said he basically stays in his house and doesn't go out, in order to protect children from himself. I remember this guy was interviewed in shadow to protect his identity, and he talked about how painful his life is because he basically can't leave his house because the temptation is too strong. And he tried everything, such as therapy, and medications, etc., to overcome his attraction to children, and he just can't.

So maybe we shouldn't call pedophilia an "orientation" but rather an unchangeable mental illness. It's really just a matter of semantics.

Either way, it's not related or connected in way, shape, or form to being Gay, and I am pretty sure Carlene knows that

[green 6]

I would be inclined to second Sunta's assessment of this situation. Paedophilia cannot be considered to be in the same category as drug dealing, prostitution, assault, aggravated assault or indeed murder unless the pattern of murder happens to pivot upon a sexual compulsion or fixation.

Paedophiles, like others who are owned by a sexual compulsion or fetish, are, unlike homosexuals, made that way; they are not born that way and that is the difference. This is where the argument of nature vs nurture does come into play.

In simple-minded terms this can be explained as follows: little Green is a heterosexual kid who likes boys. She loves and admires her father. The men to which she will be attracted will incorporate aspects of her own father. Another child might feel differently about his opposite sex parent or may feel the incest taboo so strongly that he will be repulsed by any woman who in any way resembles his mother.

Anyone who is homosexual or who has gay friends or who, for that matter, has kept up with the latest scientific research on homosexuality is aware that homosexuality is not a question of lifestyle choice but is the luck of the genetic deck.

On the other hand, research into paedophilia indicates that these individuals suffer from an array of psycho-social maladjustments dating from their own tragic early years and more often than not these creatures had suffered from childhood sexual abuse themselves.

[Carlene 12]

To be honest Carlene, this is the same song I've heard all my life, just a different verse. Because I'm Gay, I've been compared to pedophiles, rapists, prostitutes, what have you. I didn't really expect it to come from you though, particularly the emphasis on "CHOOSE" since you know I didn't CHOOSE my orientation. Unless I've taken your reply incorrectly, I'm actually quite disappointed. I would have expected it from others, just not from you... :phanvan

WHAT??? I said that I do not believe pedophiles have a choice regarding their sexual orientation (though you obviously think they do), and because of that, you think I was putting gays down?

I compared you to a pedophile only in the sense that I believe everyone's sexual orientation is beyond his/her choice. That same comparison could be drawn between heterosexuals and pedophiles.

I thought that you, of all people, would have some sort of compassion for people who are victims of their (unchosen) orientation. Guess not. But for the record, I do not believe that homosexuals are deviants. I believe they are what they are....and what they were born to be.

[AshevilleEddie 14]

WHAT??? I said that I do not believe pedophiles have a choice regarding their sexual orientation (though you obviously think they do), and because of that, you think I was putting gays down?

I compared you to a pedophile only in the sense that I believe everyone's sexual orientation is beyond his/her choice. That same comparison could be drawn between heterosexuals and pedophiles.

I thought that you, of all people, would have some sort of compassion for people who are victims of their (unchosen) orientation. Guess not. But for the record, I do not believe that homosexuals are deviants. I believe they are what they are....and what they were born to be.

My deepest and most public apologies, Carlene. If you re-read my post, I said that I didn't think you would have felt that way, but that was how I took it. I was wrong. I should have trusted my gut instinct and not believed for a moment that that was what you were implying. I deserve whatever additional words you may have for me.