Woo HOO!! Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban!!!!

[Sunta 4]

If I were pregnant and in that situation, and I cannot fathom how agonizing that situation would be, it should be my choice to save my on life or give it up for a child - not the supreme court's.

Perhaps all of the right wing people who Celebrate this decision would be very happy to take care of your severely deformed and retarded baby, since most women who have this procedure do so because the baby has major physical problems, or because the baby may not even live very long at all after being born.

And also take care of you should your health be ruined by delivering such a baby, or should you fall into severe depression after the baby dies on it's own in a few weeks, after you've bonded with it, since many of these procedures happen because the baby would not live long on its own after it's delivered.

Funny how none of the people jumping up and down about this ban ever seem to rush in for either of these jobs...

[suebaby 0]

Oh boy, here we go again......Princess n the P, I agree w/you 100%! I think I better stay away from this thread.....:hippie:

DITTO

maybe

[green 6]

Okay, since we are all sharing....

I am completely pro choice and do believe it is a womens right to have an abortion. I believe that until we walk a mile in their shoes, we cannot judge them. Late term abortions are senseless though. At the late term stage the baby could be given up for a full adoption and create a family for someone else. During the first trimester though, it is TOTALLY a womens right to decide not to carry a child to term. Although I do think that women should be responsible in their choices and not use abortion as a form of birth control. If I was pregnant and had not planned it, I would certainly consider abortion as an alternative. Again, no one can be judged unless you are in their shoes. And even if you did walk in their shoes, its not your job anyways.

But in the end, I do not agree with the late term abortion. I don't think it should be banned however I think that doctors should consider the moral dilemma in today's society before doing this practice. However a "ban" will only cause more problems and underground abortions. At least if a woman does choose this option, it is a controlled environment.

Just my two cents...

go ahead, fire away...

I agree with the above post. By the time an infant is ready to be born abortion should no longer be a viable option. The woman's body has already done most of the work of forming the the baby and she has known for a long, long time that she was pregnant. If she doesn't want the kid she can put it up for adoption.

I am, however, entirely pro choice when it comes to a woman discovering that she is pregnant and she is still in the early stages of her pregnancy. I will offer my own case as an example: I had been sexually active since I was 19 years old and because I knew that I never wanted children I had always been meticulous about birth control. When I was 32 years old I discovered that I was pregnant and immediately arranged for an abortion. I was about 6 weeks along at the time, I reckon.

As for this story of hard core feminists encouraging women to get pregnant in order to have abortions, well, that is just a very vicious story floated by right-wing fundamentalist groups. Women, whether they are right or left wing in their politics, straight or gay, hold similar attitudes about the business of making a baby. No sane woman is going to counsel another woman to enter into a pregnancy solely in order to endure an abortion in order to make a political point. Feminists love children, too.

In fact the thrust of the women's movement was to elevate the status of women so that they might stand on an equal footing with men. In the early days of the movement, feminists were concerned with securing the right to vote. Another civil liberty which women did not have was the right to manage their own property; the control of their wealth rested in the hands of their husbands or nearest male relatives.

Along with fighting for these civil liberties were those issues associated with reproduction. There had been advances made in the technology of birth control but access to these materials were usually unavailable to women; sometimes these materials were illegal or proscribed. Margaret Sanger was one of the pioneers in this area, by the way.

Let's get real. Women were having abortions long before they became legal. Wealthy or middle class women were usually able to pay off a doctor who may have known what he was doing. Poor women more often ended up with ruined insides or dying. Those feminists and many other folks too felt that the state of affairs with respect to abortion at that time was ridden with hypocrisy and, more importantly, was dysfunctional. (I would also argue that it was the women's movement which took away the shame from unmarried motherhood. Yep, now an unmarried and pregnant woman really does have the choice of carrying her child to term and raising it without shame.)

I am pro-choice but I do think that there must be a time limit on the period in which a woman gets to exercise her options. If the woman is far enough along that her foetus has become a viable creature who could well be considered a preemie, well then, she has already made her choice, hasn't she?

[NVgirl 2]

I am pro-choice but I do think that there must be a time limit on the period in which a woman gets to exercise her options. If the woman is far enough along that her foetus has become a viable creature who could well be considered a preemie, well then, she has already made her choice, hasn't she?

But that's not the core issue - it's that women no longer have a choice if their own life is in danger in carrying the child to term. Is that to say that the child is more important than the mother?

[sheilamj1fan 2]

Finally, this barbaric practice can end!!!!

YAY!! Praise GOD!

[marys 2]

The mother and her doctor are the ONLY ones who should have a say over her body, her life. IMO there are NO expceptions to this - no matter how 'reprehensible' this may be to others.

[Betsyjane 2]

There are three medical procedures associated with late-term abortions:

• Dilation and evacuation (D&E)
  
• Early induction of labor
  
• Intact dilation and extraction (IDX or D&X), commonly known as Partial-birth abortion

Abortions done for fetal abnormality are usually performed with induction of labor or with IDX; these procedures result in an intact body that the parents can hold and take pictures of as part of their mourning process. Elective late-term abortions are usually performed with D&E

To simply say that late term abortion is about stabbing the fetus in the head is to be inflammatory. It's a complicated issue and not just a sound byte.

Abortions that are performed for convenience rather than medical necessity should result in huge efforts to create a healthy support network for those unwanted babies, before limiting a mother's right to terminate the preganancy. The Supreme Court put the cart before the horse, IMO.

[green 6]

But that's not the core issue - it's that women no longer have a choice if their own life is in danger in carrying the child to term. Is that to say that the child is more important than the mother?

The mother's right to life trumps that of the foetus in my opinion.

[gadgetlady 4]

HOORAY!

Just another step closer to denying women control over their bodies!

YAY!!!

It's THRILLING to see Christianity informing our laws!

I'm SO glad that religious fundamentalists are taking over our government!

I'm sooooo happy today!

It has nothing to do with Christianity. It has to do with basic human rights.

[gadgetlady 4]

You people act as if it's done every day. Late term abortions only occur when the life of the mother is in jeopardy. Any reputable doctor would never perform one casually.

Oh, only 3,000 to 4,000 per year. No big deal at all -- to you, maybe. I'll take it as a victory for those several thousand babies.

As to only when the life of the mother is in jeopardy, that's a bunch of bunk.

From the lips of a former abortionist (link to article: http://www.lifenews.com/nat3042.html):

Dr. Anthony Levatino, a Las Cruces, New Mexico OBGYN who formerly did abortions in New York, says a partial-birth abortion is a three day long process and would never be a medical procedure a doctor would need to use to protect a woman's health.

"The way you end a pregnancy to save a woman's life is to deliver the (baby)," Levatino said. "If you wait three days to do a partial birth abortion, she's going to end up in the morgue."

Levatino said the health exception abortion advocates want is a "legal tactic" that has no basis in medical fact.

The three days he's discussing are the three days it takes to dilate the cervix and get the procedure going.

[gadgetlady 4]

Perhaps all of the right wing people who Celebrate this decision would be very happy to take care of your severely deformed and retarded baby, since most women who have this procedure do so because the baby has major physical problems, or because the baby may not even live very long at all after being born.

And also take care of you should your health be ruined by delivering such a baby, or should you fall into severe depression after the baby dies on it's own in a few weeks, after you've bonded with it, since many of these procedures happen because the baby would not live long on its own after it's delivered.

Funny how none of the people jumping up and down about this ban ever seem to rush in for either of these jobs...

I will happily take any of those babies.

From http://www.jeremiahproject.com/culture/partbirthabortion.html:

The late Dr. James McMahon, who performed abortions on all of the women who Bill Clinton paraded before the public when he vetoed the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban testified that only 9% of the 2,000 partial-birth abortions he performed involved "maternal health" [the most common being "depression"]. Another 56% were for "fetal flaws," ranging from trivial to grave; the most common being Down Syndrome. Over one-third involved neither fetal nor maternal indications, however trivial - in other words, "elective".

Dr. Martin Haskell, who has performed over 1,000 partial-birth abortions, said that he performs them "routinely" for non-medical reasons, and that 80% are "purely elective." Medical experts testified before congressional committees that it is never necessary to kill a baby that has been almost entirely delivered to preserve the life or health of the mother.

The American Medical Association's board of trustees released a report in May 1997, saying there are no situations in which "intact dilation and extraction [known as partial-birth abortion] is the only appropriate procedure to induce abortion."

...

"Lied through my teeth"

In Feb. 1997, Ron Fitzsimmons, a leader of the pro-abortion movement and Executive Director of America's National Coalition of Abortion Providers, admitted he had "lied through my teeth" in the ABC "Nightline" program in November 1995 about both the number of and the main reason for partial birth abortions. He now says there are far more partial birth abortions performed than was previously acknowledged, and on healthy women bearing healthy fetuses. It was Fitzsimmons' statistics which claimed only about 500 such abortions, which were cited by President Clinton when he vetoed the ban on partial birth abortions.

[Sunta 4]

It has nothing to do with Christianity.

Oooohhh, I see!

So... majority of pro-lifers aren't Christian, eh?

Thanks for letting me know.

[gadgetlady 4]

As for this story of hard core feminists encouraging women to get pregnant in order to have abortions, well, that is just a very vicious story floated by right-wing fundamentalist groups.

You can call it a vicious story but I've read it in feminist literature. So it's not a rumor.

Margaret Sanger was one of the pioneers in this area, by the way.

Lovely eugenist that she was. I certainly wouldn't want to claim a racist who wanted to wipe out the "unfit" of the society, including blacks.

I am pro-choice but I do think that there must be a time limit on the period in which a woman gets to exercise her options. If the woman is far enough along that her foetus has become a viable creature who could well be considered a preemie, well then, she has already made her choice, hasn't she?

AMEN!!!

[gadgetlady 4]

There are three medical procedures associated with late-term abortions:

• Dilation and evacuation (D&E)
  
• Early induction of labor
  
• Intact dilation and extraction (IDX or D&X), commonly known as Partial-birth abortion

Abortions done for fetal abnormality are usually performed with induction of labor or with IDX; these procedures result in an intact body that the parents can hold and take pictures of as part of their mourning process. Elective late-term abortions are usually performed with D&E

To simply say that late term abortion is about stabbing the fetus in the head is to be inflammatory. It's a complicated issue and not just a sound byte.

When we use euphemisms everything can sound nice. Early induction of labor isn't really accurate, because if that's all that happened these babies would simply be preemies. Someone has to do something to them to ensure that they aren't born alive; thus saline or prostaglandin.

Read about or watch a partial-birth abortion procedure and other late-term abortion procedures. When you do, euphemisms fly out the window.

[gadgetlady 4]

It has nothing to do with Christianity.

Oooohhh, I see!

So... majority of pro-lifers aren't Christian, eh?

Thanks for letting me know.

Many pro-lifers are Christian, but many are not. There are even some <gasp> athiest pro-lifers. It's not about the baby's soul or about what God says. It's about when life begins, and to claim that life begins at any place other than conception is disingenuous.