'Hostage situation' portrays killers as Christians

anonemouse · April 11, 2007

It seems to me (personal opinion) that some of us have become too big for our britches. I fear it IS and will be our un-doing.

That's exactly what I believe. Although, we probably disagree about exactly who is too big for their britches.

mousecrazy · April 11, 2007

I will just be very clear. It is my personal belief, and I believe I am still entitled to have one, that it is delusional to think that Christians, as a group and as a belief system, are a violent group...and even more delusional to think that Christian teachings are more prone to violence than are Islamic teachings/law.

While Pelosi was conducting foreign policy in the Middle East, they were chopping people's hands off for stealing, for goodness' sakes.

Examine your selective outrage. That was part of the point of this thread, and my questions asked along the way were meant to highlight that. I see they have fallen short of their purpose, at least for some.

anonemouse · April 11, 2007

I will just be very clear. It is my personal belief, and I believe I am still entitled to have one, that it is delusional to think that Christians, as a group and as a belief system, are a violent group...and even more delusional to think that Christian teachings are more prone to violence than are Islamic teachings/law.
While Pelosi was conducting foreign policy in the Middle East, they were chopping people's hands off for stealing, for goodness' sakes.

Examine your selective outrage. That was part of the point of this thread, and my questions asked along the way were meant to highlight that. I see they have fallen short of their purpose, at least for some.

I feel that Christians are people, just like everyone else. As such, they are no more or no less prone to violence or bigotry than any other group. I just think it is absolutely blind to say that we are in more danger from one group who has made two whole attacks in our country than a group that has made dozens. I think it is delusional to say that Christians can't be violent because of the fact that they happen to be Christian. They are human beings, and therefore they are capable of extreme violence.

And you do know that Pelosi wasn't the only American conducting foreign policy in the Middle East, right? There were Republican senators there, also.

mousecrazy · April 11, 2007

Republicans???? Plural? Are you sure of your statement? I'll give you one, and he is not the Speaker of the House, and 3rd in line of succession to the Presidency (thus, no particular clout).

Back to the subject...how about those amputations? How about all the examples Jack has given of Sharia justice? See, no matter how many examples of how Sharia law promotes, encourages and teaches violence, they are ignored. That's why I used the term "selective outrage".

Yes, Jack...I wonder how that hostage situation would have been treated if it had been "radical atheists" who were the hostage-takers?

Be honest. If it had been "illegal aliens" or "black Americans" or "Cuban refugees" or ANY other group, there would be an uproar from the ACLU. The point Leatha made in the beginning is still valid: since it was radical Christians, the silence is deafening. NO ACLU lawyers jumping out there to protect those rights, huh?

mousecrazy · April 11, 2007

Just two little attacks...that killed THOUSANDS. No biggie.

And who's counting those other pesky little problems that have killed thousands of other Americans overseas...just nothings, really. They don't count, you know, because they weren't actually in the U.S. Sure, that makes sense.

anonemouse · April 11, 2007

Back to the subject...how about those amputations? How about all the examples Jack has given of Sharia justice? See, no matter how many examples of how Sharia law promotes, encourages and teaches violence, they are ignored. That's why I used the term "selective outrage".

Did they happen in the US? If they did, I'll be happy to reward you with "rightous anger". While those actions are horrible, if they didn't happen in the US, they aren't endangering you or me.

Just two little attacks...that killed THOUSANDS. No biggie.
And who's counting those other pesky little problems that have killed thousands of other Americans overseas...just nothings, really. They don't count, you know, because they weren't actually in the U.S. Sure, that makes sense.

Yes, they killed thousands. But they were still only two attacks. But again, that's more of a lack of thinking big on the part of the Christian terrorists. I'm sure that if they were given the chance of killing thousands of "baby killers" in one strike, they would have jumped at the chance. And no, those other attacks really don't count, not when what we are discussing is our safety here inside the United States. If we were discussing the safety of US citizens in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afganistan, or Iraq, then yeah, they'd count. But, I'll say yet again, what we are discussing is the safety of average US citizens inside the borders of the United States. Not the safety of people in other countries.

Republicans???? Plural? Are you sure of your statement? I'll give you one, and he is not the Speaker of the House, and 3rd in line of succession to the Presidency (thus, no particular clout).

Yep, I am. From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/01/AR2007040100314.html

The U.S. House members, who included Virginia Republican Frank Wolf, Pennsylvania Republican Joe Pitts and Alabama Republican Robert Aderholt, also said they had raised with Syrian officials the issue of stopping the alleged flow of foreign fighters from Syria to Iraq.

She has clout, huh? I give you the fact that she's speaker of the house and 3rd in line to the Presidency, but it isn't like she's out there talking the President into anything. You and I both know that he will never listen to her. He won't listen to any Democrat. And personally, I'm glad someone is stepping in. If we let Bush continue on the crusade he's on, he'll start WWIII. And heck, we both know that they're not terribly inclined to listen to a woman, in the first place. So I would imagine that the male lawmakers have a heck of a lot more clout than one woman, no matter how powerful her position.

anonemouse · April 11, 2007

Jack, for the last time, we are not talking about world violence. We are talking about violence INSIDE the US. And like it or not, the majority of religious violence inside the US has been by Christians. I'll concede your point about violence outside the US, but that is not what this discussion is about.

anonemouse · April 12, 2007

Okay - so the majority of 'religious' violence in the US is perpetrated by 'Christians' or someone who mentions the name of God. (which does not make them a Christian), so, what percentage of US violence is considered to be 'religious' violence?

How the heck should I know? And by the way, your statement is really part of what I'm trying to get across. Just because someone mentions the names God or Allah, does not make them a Christian or a Muslim. I think we can all safely agree that the majority of the people out there killing in the name of their deity would not be considered true believers. Which brings me to another point (I'm thinking as I type, so sorry if it's a little incoherent): Who are we to decide who is or isn't a true believer? What gives us the right to say, "well, they aren't real Christians" or "they aren't real Muslims" just because they have beliefs or perform actions that we don't agree with? They are the only people that can say whether or not they have a true relationship with their deity, so who's to say that they aren't true believers, and that they aren't going to the same place all other true believers go?

"So the various embassy bombings around the world, ARE on US soil...."

per diplomatic agreement....check it out...embassies are considered soil of the country it represents....do you want cites?

They may be "US soil", but they aren't here in the US. Just like Puerto Rico is considered to be US soil, since it is a US territory, it isn't inside the US. Some jackass driving a truck bomb into an embassy in BFE still isn't endangering you or me.

jono201 · April 12, 2007

OK I may be wrong, but I feel the point of original posit was that Christian religions were being devalued ala happy holidays rather than merry Christmas. As in WHY ME??? When other people, like laurend gave intelligent arguments and examples to illustrate other points of view, the only thing others came up with is to pray for us so-called sinners. Well-do not pray for me cuz I am a humanist-from a long line of humanists and prayer means nothing but action everything.

WASaBubbleButt · April 12, 2007

...but we have a history of it being acceptable to discriminate against non-Christians... I'm not finding the right words, but I think it's more "welcome to the club" or "how does that medicine taste" than "poor you". Are Christians some untouchable group that should never be discriminated against, when other faiths have been discriminated against all along, and still are?

You have to admit, it is a bit amusing to watch them collectively stomp their feeties over the supposed discrimination.

I agree with you, now that they are getting a taste of their own medicine they don't like it one bit. I find it unusual how well the rest of us have taken it throughout history and now that they have to follow the same rules as the rest of us they can't handle it and they suddenly call it persecution.

I say let them scream and yell. Pretty soon just like a spoiled child they will hush themselves and finally take their well deserved nap. The louder they yell the more they prove us correct.

WASaBubbleButt · April 12, 2007

....without pushing any hot buttons here....
IF we could just run a statistical evaluation of frequency of incident from around the world, and get an idea of *what groups* and *what activity* falls under the title of 'violence against civilians' etc, perhaps we would understand why one group instead of any other has such a history associated with it. ...

Well, I would have to ask how far back are we going to go to get these stats? If we are going to go back 100 years the Christians will probably be happy. If we go back 2000 years I'm not so sure they would be happy with the reminders of what their history holds.

There are whackjobs in every group of people and Christians are not exempt from that rule. Christians wouldn't have batted an eye if it was the atheists portrayed in that manner and that is because the hard core type Christians are used to pushing atheists out of their way on their way to heaven. Atheists are expendable. But put a Christian in a bad light and OH MY GAWD! THE FREAK'EN HORROR OF IT ALL!

Why is it such a shock to Christians to discover they have whackjobs within their congregations? Is this really news to them? The rest of us have known for a long time. These school officials are not downing Christianity, they are using the whackjobs within Christianity. So what the hell is the horror here?

WASaBubbleButt · April 12, 2007

I'm sorry, but I'm calling bigot on the above post.

Apology accepted.

WASaBubbleButt · April 12, 2007

First of all, the word 'Christian' is being used very loosely again. Because our nation is predominantly 'Christian' for those who do choose a belief system, you'd have to narrow it down a whole lot to specify those who have actually accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour and chosen to follow his teachings. There is an umbrella of 'Christianity' being placed here that has no true value. America is a Christian nation, founded on 'Christian' values, but to BE a Christian requires a whole lot more than just saying you ARE one.
So far, I haven't seen any headlines stating that true believers in Christ, (who have accepted Jesus as their saviour and professed it publicly) have been doing any bombing, or taking people hostage, cutting their heads off for website sensationalism. There haven't been any serious threats to our nation at all by 'Christians'. If I see a person with a cross around their neck get on a plane, I never find myself worrying about whether they'll pull out a box cutter and slit my throat and so far I've never seen one setting their shoes on fire. In fact, I find myself drawn to most of them, not walking away from them. I even came home from being away this weekend and one of those terrifying people had mowed my yard... egads!

Quite frankly it isn't up to you and it isn't your decision to determine who is Christian. Just because your individual definition of xtianity means one thing, that most certainly does not mean all xtians will agree with you. You don't decide in this country or this world who is xtian and who isn't. It is yours to decide if YOU are xtian. It is between others and their God to determine the rest.

Until your God comes to me and says, "I'm giving Leatha G the power to determine who is Christian," I say you are full of it.

WASaBubbleButt · April 12, 2007

Good grief.
Okay, Laurend. Have it your way, like Burger King. Still, I am going to have to pray for you, because I am very sorry that you live in fear of Christians. I am very sorry that you have not been extended the loving care and grace of Christian fellowship. We have had some spirited debate and discussion, but the crazy stuff that a few nutjobs have done should not be attributed to all of us. I see in many of your responses a true fear, if not hatred, of those who love Jesus Christ and believe in the teachings of the Bible.

Oh for goodness sakes. What complete and total nonsense. What a horrible job at dirty, underhanded manipulation.

Tell you what dear, you pray for Lauren and she'll think for you. K?

WASaBubbleButt · April 12, 2007

You're exactly right. It has nothing to do with me. It is not my individual definition of CHRISTiantity.
John 14:6 (King James Version)

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So, is there something else you'd like to set me straight on? LOL. That's hysterical.

As usual, you miss the point by a longshot. Why am I not surprised?

It is not YOUR job to determine who is xtian and who isn't. MYOB comes to mind when it comes to that topic.

I don't think you are a xtian, there. (sticks tongue at Leatha because that type of behavior seems to hit home) Neener neener!