Sex before marriage?

[Carlene 12]

Whippits (a point to Carlene) are the little cannisters of propellant used in whipped cream cans. Nitrous oxide.

Has anyone wondered why I even know about these things?

I have a friend who is a Martha Stewart clone. She even had a brief but illustrious second career as a caterer. And she actually owns one of the machines that uses Whippits (your local Starbucks has them, too). My friend's niece, now an assistant DA in the Texas Hill Country, clued us into the dark side of Whippits. I asked her if she was speaking from professional or personal experience, but she just gave me one of those looks - like "how rude of you to ask".

[Sunta 4]

Of course it is everyone's personal decision, but if people feel regretful over having sex before marriage, it is generally because of religious reasons (barring any relationship issues; I'm talking about just the fact of having it without being "married").

This is just another way in which organized religion makes people feel guilty and bad about themselves for doing something which is as normal, natural, and basic as breathing.

Teens and unmarried people have been having sex since the beginning of time, and it is a natural activity which should not looked upon as shameful or wrong. Any physcological harm that comes from having sex before marriage is imposed by rediculous societal/religious norms which attempt to force people to go against their nature and ignore a strong basic force within themselves.

How I wish we would move past this puritanical, outdated, and backwards mindset and let people live their lives without trying to control their sexual behavior. This attempt at control is the very thing that causes the most harm to people. They are in a relationship, have sex, and then feel horrible and guilty about doing something totally normal! Religion is to blame, here, not the sexual act.

[TommyO 5]

Sunta, I agree with you 100%, as a youth I suffered incredible guilt over masterbation. (Possibly to much information) I grew up Catholic and we were told that masterbation was a sin. Being a typical adulescent I still did it on a regular basis but was always worried that I would one day burn in hell. This cause me incredible agnst, and I was always worried I can laugh now but I think it is terrible that I was subjected to such incredible remorse because of some infintile beliefs. I wonder how many folks didn't masterbate before marriage and if they beleive that this is a sin.

There is an old joke that I am reminded of

John goes to heaven and he is walking around with ST. Peter and he notices a room full of clocks with peoples names on them. He asks ST. Peter what the clocks are for and Peter tells him that they are not clocks. They are masterbation meters and everytime a person on earth masterbates the minute hand moves one spot.

John walks around the room looking at the clocks with his freinds names on them. He notices that he can't find TommyO's clock (Insert the name of the person you are telling the joke to) So he asks Peter why there is no clock for his good freind TommyO. Peter tells "Oh we're using that one as a fan in the kitchen.

Cheers

TommyO

[Alexandra 55]

Of course it is everyone's personal decision, but if people feel regretful over having sex before marriage, it is generally because of religious reasons (barring any relationship issues; I'm talking about just the fact of having it without being "married").

This is just another way in which organized religion makes people feel guilty and bad about themselves for doing something which is as normal, natural, and basic as breathing.

Teens and unmarried people have been having sex since the beginning of time, and it is a natural activity which should not looked upon as shameful or wrong. Any physcological harm that comes from having sex before marriage is imposed by rediculous societal/religious norms which attempt to force people to go against their nature and ignore a strong basic force within themselves.

How I wish we would move past this puritanical, outdated, and backwards mindset and let people live their lives without trying to control their sexual behavior. This attempt at control is the very thing that causes the most harm to people. They are in a relationship, have sex, and then feel horrible and guilty about doing something totally normal! Religion is to blame, here, not the sexual act.

I agree completely. :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

[green 6]

Of course it is everyone's personal decision, but if people feel regretful over having sex before marriage, it is generally because of religious reasons (barring any relationship issues; I'm talking about just the fact of having it without being "married").

This is just another way in which organized religion makes people feel guilty and bad about themselves for doing something which is as normal, natural, and basic as breathing.

Teens and unmarried people have been having sex since the beginning of time, and it is a natural activity which should not looked upon as shameful or wrong. Any physcological harm that comes from having sex before marriage is imposed by rediculous societal/religious norms which attempt to force people to go against their nature and ignore a strong basic force within themselves.

How I wish we would move past this puritanical, outdated, and backwards mindset and let people live their lives without trying to control their sexual behavior. This attempt at control is the very thing that causes the most harm to people. They are in a relationship, have sex, and then feel horrible and guilty about doing something totally normal! Religion is to blame, here, not the sexual act.

I was, I believe, fairly fortunate in that both my parents had a relatively relaxed take on sex. Neither of them were virgins when they first met each other. My British mother hadn't met anyone with whom she could fall in love, it was wartime, she was tired of waiting, and she was curious. My father had had his own experiences. When they did get together they lived together for a year before they married. My mother was a British subject and my father was a stateless refugee; she was afraid of compromising her own status.

I became sexually active during a fine era; the pill solved the problem of pregnancy and the STDs of the era were amenable to antibiotics. My father's sexual advice to me was that I should remain abstinent until I finished my university work. He said that my grades would drop if I did not. My mother was entirely comfortable with my activities. Her concern was merely that I did not become 'a public convenience.'

I personally believe that we share much of our hardwiring with our fellow mammals and this includes our sexual hardwiring. Though the fashion in which our particular brains are structured permit us to do some overwriting of this basic material there is, nevertheless, much that we can understand about our own brute sexuality by comparing this with the general sexual behaviour of all members of the mammalian class. (This is why, for instance, infidelity patterns between men and women tend to be different.) Laurend can explain much more cogently what I am trying to say and, indeed, amplify upon it.

As for this business of monogamy and virginity and its connection with Judeo-Christian-Islamic teachings, you will note that the purity, the virginity of the bride is always emphasized, the man...not so much. In the case of the Orthodox Jews, the married woman is required to hide her hair when in public. Muslim women are expected to wear, depending on the severity of their home environment, a variety of cover-ups which might vary from a simple head scarf to a burqa.

Of course Christians and those of other religions, too, want to ensure that their brides are untouched. Though there may well be a psychological pay-off when a pair of individuals walk into a marriage as virgins I am inclined to say that the chief pay-off is social. Men are certain that their children are really theirs and that the flow of property and power will continue to be transmitted in an orderly fashion. The societal pay-off is tremendous. And so it is natural that virginity would be enshrined as a very good thing in religion.

You may be interested to note that this has its parrallel in the animal world. Males will often slaughter the new born young whom they believe were fathered by other males.

As for the act of sex, it is as morally and as emotionally loaded as the individual perceives it to be. This varies greatly from individual to individual. And it is true women, for reasons of mammalian hardwiring, tend to be less able to separate sentiment from sex.

Religion, can, for the reason that I have gone into above, confuse the issue for many of us. The moral caveat against sex which is enshrined in most religions is based upon a need for an orderly society. Indeed, most religious constructs are built around this desire to calm down the primitives and force them to behave better.

[ReneBean 3]

I can truly say that having sex before marriage was the best and smartest thing I ever did.

I was all torn up because my BF of three yrs had thrown me over for a skinny 19 yr old blonde....I was generally hating men and talking about this with my friends at the Hotdog stand on Campus at the U of O. My friend, the lady who owned the hot dog cart, introduced me to this big scary looking guy. Clearly, this guy had had some interesting experiences in life and he was very different from anyone I would have been around, approached, or maybe even talked to, if I had not been introduced to him by my friend.

After a few hours of conversation, I was fascinated by him. He was wild - he was "something completely different". I met him at the hot dog stand on another day and we talked some more. We had an actual date... I had already determined that he would make the perfect Post Break-up fling. I was going to have mindless, meaningless sex with this fascinating man and forget that there was a world of skinny blondes out there waiting to steal my next BF.

So, I took him home one afternoon to meet my cat. We had wildly fantastic sex, repeatedly. The man never left. After 9 months, we got married and have been enjoying "something completely different" for the last 17 yrs.

So, for ME - pre-marital sex entirely led to marriage. In looking for a wild fling, I found a life partner and a great friend.

[green 6]

I can truly say that having sex before marriage was the best and smartest thing I ever did.

I was all torn up because my BF of three yrs had thrown me over for a skinny 19 yr old blonde....I was generally hating men and talking about this with my friends at the Hotdog stand on Campus at the U of O. My friend, the lady who owned the hot dog cart, introduced me to this big scary looking guy. Clearly, this guy had had some interesting experiences in life and he was very different from anyone I would have been around, approached, or maybe even talked to, if I had not been introduced to him by my friend.

After a few hours of conversation, I was fascinated by him. He was wild - he was "something completely different". I met him at the hot dog stand on another day and we talked some more. We had an actual date... I had already determined that he would make the perfect Post Break-up fling. I was going to have mindless, meaningless sex with this fascinating man and forget that there was a world of skinny blondes out there waiting to steal my next BF.

So, I took him home one afternoon to meet my cat. We had wildly fantastic sex, repeatedly. The man never left. After 9 months, we got married and have been enjoying "something completely different" for the last 17 yrs.

So, for ME - pre-marital sex entirely led to marriage. In looking for a wild fling, I found a life partner and a great friend.

Cool. Very cool.

[enterprise01 0]

I can truly say that having sex before marriage was the best and smartest thing I ever did.

I was all torn up because my BF of three yrs had thrown me over for a skinny 19 yr old blonde....I was generally hating men and talking about this with my friends at the Hotdog stand on Campus at the U of O. My friend, the lady who owned the hot dog cart, introduced me to this big scary looking guy. Clearly, this guy had had some interesting experiences in life and he was very different from anyone I would have been around, approached, or maybe even talked to, if I had not been introduced to him by my friend.

After a few hours of conversation, I was fascinated by him. He was wild - he was "something completely different". I met him at the hot dog stand on another day and we talked some more. We had an actual date... I had already determined that he would make the perfect Post Break-up fling. I was going to have mindless, meaningless sex with this fascinating man and forget that there was a world of skinny blondes out there waiting to steal my next BF.

So, I took him home one afternoon to meet my cat. We had wildly fantastic sex, repeatedly. The man never left. After 9 months, we got married and have been enjoying "something completely different" for the last 17 yrs.

So, for ME - pre-marital sex entirely led to marriage. In looking for a wild fling, I found a life partner and a great friend.

That's one of the best stories I've ever heard!

[Jachut 487]

I have a good friend who has a 10YO son. From a very early age, she taught him to "avert his eyes" whenever he saw a scantily-clad woman (at the beach, the pool, or just someone walking down the street who wasn't well covered). She told him that while he might not understand why, it was a good habit for him to develop NOW so that when he did understand, it would come naturally to him. I look at her early training and think, "That boy's going to make someone an awesome husband one day" (assuming he follows her teaching). Some of you may think the gawking and lusting and potential delving into pornography are just fine -- but for those of us who don't, what she's doing is an awesome thing. It's all a matter of perspective and values and what matters to each of us individually.

It IS all a mater of perspective and values so I'd hate to be disrespectful but it disturbs me deeply when people make sex and natural interest in the opposite sex dirty in that way. That to me is entirely dysfunctional. I'd be more likely to assume not that that boy would make someone an awesome husband one day but that he'll be in therapy one day for treatment for his addiction to pornography or his deep seated shame over masturbating his teens and 20's away as most boys typically do.

Its a natural thing, whether or not you do it outside of a marriage is entirely a personal decision and nobody has the right to say you're right or wrong in that. But to imbue it all with a sense of shame and grubbiness is a shame. And I believe she's making a 10 year old aware of things he really shouldnt even be aware of yet, probably doing more harm than good. She's effectively teaching him that the female body is shameful and that females are wanton creatures there to tempt him. What on earth does that do that's postive?

[2bthinagn 3]

Flash forward about 12 years....same scenario (same childhood home), different husband. My bed - the bed we were sleeping in - had a bookcase headboard. And little sliding doors....with brass, kind of horseshoe-shaped doo-dads that served as handles to open and close the doors. I had slept in that bed for YEARS without realizing that any significant amount of movement would cause those little brass doo-dads to bang sharply against the headboard. My husband was not one to give up easily. He somehow managed to hold both doo-dads still for....well, however long it took.

Reading this made me think of a time......I was staying with my folks, the room next to my Mom & Dad. First husband was working out of town. He came home in the middle of the night. Absence does make the heart grow fonder. Well, things got started and on that old bed...well she started squeaking somethin terrible. Well, we froze in mid... anyway we stopped. But, we were both too heated up to stop. So we finished up on the FLOOR of the bedroom!

(I hope no one that knows me reads this...lol) And the beginning of my knee problems!

[gadgetlady 4]

It IS all a mater of perspective and values so I'd hate to be disrespectful but it disturbs me deeply when people make sex and natural interest in the opposite sex dirty in that way. That to me is entirely dysfunctional. I'd be more likely to assume not that that boy would make someone an awesome husband one day but that he'll be in therapy one day for treatment for his addiction to pornography or his deep seated shame over masturbating his teens and 20's away as most boys typically do.

Its a natural thing, whether or not you do it outside of a marriage is entirely a personal decision and nobody has the right to say you're right or wrong in that. But to imbue it all with a sense of shame and grubbiness is a shame. And I believe she's making a 10 year old aware of things he really shouldnt even be aware of yet, probably doing more harm than good. She's effectively teaching him that the female body is shameful and that females are wanton creatures there to tempt him. What on earth does that do that's postive?

She's not teaching him that the sex is dirty. It blows me away that everyone thinks that people who save sex for marriage think sex is dirty. We believe it is an amazing and powerful gift and is incredibly beautiful.

There are a heck of a lot of females that do try to tempt men. My husband loves me and my body, fat or thin, and we love our sex life. Yet when a woman walks past him with her boobs hanging out, he averts his eyes. That makes me feel so incredibly special I can't even put it into words -- that he doesn't want to have sexual feelings about anyone but me. He respects me AND other women too much to look.

You are being disrespectful. You can ridicule it all you want but I think it's an amazing thing. I never ridiculed or put down anyone who said they think sex is a natural thing and they want to get as much of it as they want, whether in marriage or not. I don't think you should be putting down how I feel about it just because you don't agree. And if you think pornography addiction comes from not looking at pornography, then show your kids a Hustler magazine before bed every night and let me know how that works out for you.

[gadgetlady 4]

There are, btw, valid reasons for abstinence. Here's a cute little story.

I was holding a notice from my 13-year-old son's school announcing a meeting to preview the new course in sexuality. Parents could examine the curriculum and take part in an actual lesson presented exactly as it would be given to the students.

When I arrived at the school, I was surprised to discover only about a dozen parents there. As we waited for the presentation, I thumbed through page after page of instructions in the prevention of pregnancy or disease. I found abstinence mentioned only in passing. When the teacher arrived with the school nurse, she asked if there were any questions. I asked why abstinence did not play a noticeable part in the educational material.

What happened next was shocking. There was a great deal of laughter, and someone suggested that if I thought abstinence had any merit, I should go back to burying my head in the sand. The teacher and the nurse said nothing as I drowned in a sea of embarrassment. My mind had gone blank, and I could think of nothing to say. The teacher explained to me that the job of the school was to teach "facts," and the home was responsible for moral training.

I sat in silence for the next 20 minutes as the sexuality course was explained. The other parents seemed to give their unqualified support to the materials.

At the break time, the teacher announced that there were donuts in the back of the room and requested that everyone put on a name tag and mingle with each other. Everyone moved to the back of the room. As Iwatched them affixing their name tags and shaking hands, I sat deep in thought. I was ashamed that I had not been able to convince them to include a serious discussion of abstinence in the educational materials. I uttered a silent prayer for guidance.

My thoughts were interrupted by the teacher's hand on my shoulder.

"Won't you join the others, Mr. Layton?" The nurse smiled sweetly at me.

"The donuts are good."

"Thank you, no," I replied.

"Well, then, how about a name tag? I'm sure the others would like to meet you."

"Somehow I doubt that," I replied.

"Won't you please join them?" she coaxed.

Then I heard a still, small voice whisper, "Don't go." The message in my head was unmistakable: "Don't go!"

"I'll just wait here," I said.

When the class was called back to order, the teacher looked around the long table and thanked everyone for putting on name tags. She ignored me. Then she said, "Now we're going to give you the same lesson we'll be giving your children. Everyone please peel off your name tags and look at the back of the tag."

I watched in silence as the tags came off. "Now then, I drew a tiny flower on the back of one of the tags. Who has it, please?" the teacher asked.

The gentleman across from me held it up. "Here it is!"

"All right," she said. "The flower represents disease. Do you recall with whom you shook hands?" He pointed to a couple of people.

"Very good," she replied. "The handshake in this case represents intimacy. So the two people you had contact with now have the disease." There was laughter and joking among the parents.

The teacher continued, "And whom did the two of you shake hands with?"

The point was well taken, and she explained how this lesson would show students how quickly disease is spread. She concluded by saying, "Since we all shook hands, we all have the disease."

It was then that I heard the still, small voice again. "Speak now," it said, "but be humble." I wryly noted the latter admonition, then rose from my chair. I apologized for any upset I might have caused earlier, congratulated the teacher on an excellent lesson that would impress the youth, and concluded by saying I had only one small point I wished to make. "Not all of us were infected with the disease," I said. "One of us ... abstained."

-- Author Unknown

[2bthinagn 3]

When you say "sex before marriage" - are you referring only to penal pentration of the vagina? (Mmm, sounds so romantic, eh?) Seriously. Because I know an awful lot of people who participate in sexual acts, but don't consider it sex. And would wear white on their wedding day, just because the man's penis has never penetrated the vagina, regardless of how much oral/anal/tweening/MM/whatever has occured.

(MM = mutual masturbation, and "tweening" is when the penis is stimulated between some body part, e.g. breasts, butt cheeks)

What is this "20 orgasm stuff"...and where do you buy it??!! lol I have learned SO much here....MM and tweening...I had never heard things referred to like that. Well, look at the ages of the people. I think it is a generational thing. It all started with President Clinton, "I did not have sex with that girl". To me I've always felt, and its probably an old fashioned mindset, but sex is penetration. I have granddaughters,and they are too young to even be talking about this and them in the same sentence, BUT I wouldnt want them to be doing any of this. So in that respect maybe I believe any of it is sex.

[Jachut 487]

Sorry to offend gadgetlady, I dont think I was ridiculing your sentiment, I just happen to vehemently disagree with it. Its your right to admire your'e friend's outlook, just as its mine to think its rather unhealthy.

[gadgetlady 4]

Sorry to offend gadgetlady, I dont think I was ridiculing your sentiment, I just happen to vehemently disagree with it. Its your right to admire your'e friend's outlook, just as its mine to think its rather unhealthy.

I appreciate your apology. Your words were quite harsh.

The problem is that those of us who believe sex is best reserved for marriage are often met with the sentiment that we think sex is "dirty" and the human body is "shameful". You're not the first person I've heard it from. What I'd like to get across to those of you who think sex is fine, whenever, with whoever, for whatever reason -- that's fine for YOU! But it's not for me and people who think like me, and just because it's NOT fine for us doesn't mean that we don't like sex and we're suppressed by the church or images of mean old ladies looking down their noses at us. It's just plain not true.