Speak up those with leaks & infections!

[Swiftflow 6]

One thing we all have to realize is that there are people who have gone to some HYPOTHETICAL "controversial" clinic and have had no issues or even great experiences and they are here on the board for the same reasons everyone else is. I can see why they may take it as a personal attack.

I think the main point is that if you have a situation in which a higher percentage of people have complications at one place then another, then there is that slight higher risk. If a HYPOTHETICAL location has 1% with complications and another HYPOTHETICAL location has 5% which one would you pick? Well does saving X number of dollars or whatever it is worth the additional risk??--maybe for some they feel its worth the savings. For me Its worth 10950 total to stay here local at a place that is 5 mins from my house then to go to a place out of the country--but I don't fault my neighbor for going to a great doc in "Any other hypothetical location" and saving 2000. Provided we are dealing with two great doctors and not one that is known with a higher rate of problems--in that case all we can do is share that risk experience freely--thats the purpose of these boards and I hope people with bad experiences can have the openness to share.

Also don't be one to cry wolf every time someone mentions a bad experience even though you may have been one that was lucky enough to have a great experience. And please dont assume I am talking about any specific surgeon here--we just want the freedom on the boards for everyone to share thier experiences without it being removed or them having fear.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Swiftflow
Removing the bad joke--and clarifying

[LAN2k 18]

There have been people who posted about getting infections or leaks or even worse from that clinic, and they have been deleted.

I get that Daisy..My post would likely have been deleted had I mentioned any names.I have not out of respect for the person who I spoke with. It is pathetic that such politics are involved in keeping this board running. It's likely the same way on OH.

[Oregondaisy 2,019]

That's true. Some are lucky and have no complications. Others are not so lucky and are in the hospital for months trying to recover.

[educationrulz 18]

Sorry but that's the way Alex wants it. We aren't allowed to discuss people who have had serious complications or he will delete the thread because the doctor is one of his paid advertisers.

OMG! This is very distressing. I had no idea this kind of thing was going on. Now I better understand that other thread "Account Deactivation" from someone who was upset with all the politics here. I'm going to do my best to now let this destroy all the positives I have found here. :redface1:

[educationrulz 18]

I'm sorry to get sucked unto this, but it seems nobody has stated the obvious. I haven't read any bad experiences on this board or any other from people who genuinely went to Dr. Almanza. (I did read one negative experience from someone who claimed a somewhat negative experience but according to other patients had so many of the details of the facilities wrong that she could never have actually been there.) Lot of people who "heard" this or that happened.

Invariably, the patients who defend Dr. Almanza are accused of working for him.....it seems at least as likely to me that the rumormongers are working for other doctors who can't match his prices? Just a thought.

I haven't been sleeved yet, nor have I picked a surgeon, so I don't have a bias--just stating my observations.

I think the point is that those types of posts have been deleted, so you wouldn't read about it.

[Sandy Johnson 15]

You see, this is where I have a problem. Not from someone who directly posted about their own experience, good or bad, but someone that makes clearly untrue and reckless statements such as these...

Obviously they are not killing everyone that goes down there :scared0:.

Please tell me about ONE single death from this surgeon. Do you know of ONE? You are making a statement as if there is, so please explain. You are trying to give the reader the impression that Dr. Almanza has had deaths. Is that your intention? If so, you are wrong!

If a location has 1% with complications and another has 5% which one would you pick?

Please explain how you came to these statistics. Where did you get them? Are you claiming these are the accurate statistics for Dr. Almanza? If you are making this claim, you are wrong.

[pnw218 14]

You see, this is where I have a problem. Not from someone who directly posted about their own experience, good or bad, but someone that makes clearly untrue and reckless statements such as these...

Please tell me about ONE single death from this surgeon. Do you know of ONE? You are making a statement as if there is, so please explain. You are trying to give the reader the impression that Dr. Almanza has had deaths. Is that your intention? If so, you are wrong!

Please explain how you came to these statistics. Where did you get them? Are you claiming these are the accurate statistics for Dr. Almanza? If you are making this claim, you are wrong.

It is impossible to reason with some people. I have given up trying to get any true facts or basis for comments. I am too new to know the exact reasons he is a target but have read back and see it is an ongoing war.

Two people can be in the same place at the same time and see things so differently. I have seen it many times. When someone can show me cold hard facts, I might reconsider; until then, I will continue to relay my positive experience. I am planning to be down there again soon and will make sure to bring my CSI kit with me tho! LOL

Just not into the he said, she said doomsday sensationalism. Consider the sources I guess.

Some of the comments do provide some comic relief after a long day tho!

:scared0:

[educationrulz 18]

As far as differing opinions about doctors go, I have a mildly similar experience. One day, a good friend and I were talking about medical issues and realized that we had both gone to the same specialist. My experiences with this doctor were totally positive, hers not so much. Granted, this was not a surgeon who had performed any serious procedures on either of us, but as with all doctors, there was potential for harm.

After our discussion of our experiences, I had a slightly different perspective of how someone might feel about this doctor's care. So, while I still recommend this particular doctor to people needing a specialist, I do so with the caveat that I know of at least one person whose experience was not so rosy.

I never once discounted or downplayed my friend's experiences or perceptions. Nor did I try to talk her out of her feelings about this doctor. I accepted what my friend had to say and integrated the information into my knowledge base. When appropriate, I include that information in my reporting to others about this doctor so that they can make informed decisions.

Of course, this is the dreaded "hearsay" principle. But realistically, my friend can't and/or won't talk to everyone who might inquire about this doctor. If we can rely on hearsay for positive feedback and patient referrals, then we should be able to rely on hearsay to some extent for warnings and negative feedback.

If we're being honest with ourselves, what's the more mature way to handle these kinds of discrepancies?

BTW, this is a true story! :scared0:

[Swiftflow 6]

You see, this is where I have a problem. Not from someone who directly posted about their own experience, good or bad, but someone that makes clearly untrue and reckless statements such as these...

Please tell me about ONE single death from this surgeon. Do you know of ONE? You are making a statement as if there is, so please explain. You are trying to give the reader the impression that Dr. Almanza has had deaths. Is that your intention? If so, you are wrong!

Please explain how you came to these statistics. Where did you get them? Are you claiming these are the accurate statistics for Dr. Almanza? If you are making this claim, you are wrong.

Sorry for the confusion there--I never mentioned a surgeon just a hypothetic example that someone would want to know about. my post was to help us build this bridge not burn it down--read it again with no bias and consider the logic that is all I was doing. If someone went to my surgeon a week after me and had a horible experience should I discount that experience just because I went there. I want only people with real experience to post and you misread my whole post as an attack on some surgeon I have not even researched any of the Mexico surgeons --I was making a hypothetical post to prove the point that people want to know.

The sarcasm may have not translated there--but the "not killing everyone" was 100% sarcasm and a joke (bad one at that) of corse no one is reporting a death I was hoping the emoticon showed the sarcasm. So I blame the emoticon for the bad joke. :sad0::scared0::scared0::blushing:

Sorry that you took this as an attack on you--please re-read it as hypothetical and tell me if the logic is flawed:thumbup1: I edited the post to clarify the Hypothetical nature and again I apologize that my poor writing lead to your misinterpretation.

Best of luck to everyone--I am so looking forward to supporting everyone here and being supported--this is a great board dispite some of the politics.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Swiftflow

[TiffanyIsMajor 1]

UGHHH WHY IS THIS POST EVEN STILL UP!... I have been trying so hard to ignore it but I get an email every 5 seconds with a new post. All this is now, is a mess. I mean, do any of you have a leak or problems with ANY of your surgeons? NO. I dont either. If we did, we should be talking about that AT the very LEAST. No one is, but yet this thread is FOUR PAGES long...HOW? People like me I guess = /

YAY for posting off topic = D

[pnw218 14]

If we can rely on hearsay for positive feedback and patient referrals, then we should be able to rely on hearsay to some extent for warnings and negative feedback.

My guess is ... somewhere along the way (a very long time ago in a far away land : ) ... something got posted by someone that upset someone else. Maybe it was real, maybe it was fake. Who knows? It turned into an attack on one dr and one clinic. The lines were drawn in the sand and the battle began. It is definitely unfortunate for anyone trying to decide on surgery and gather positive and negative info.

At this point, it is really hard to believe much of what anyone writes when it comes to drs and clinics, especially the negative stuff : )

BTW, this is a true story! :scared0: LOL

Sorry Tiffany but I had to write "just one more time"! :sad0:

[bkind 1]

How many ways can this subject be discussed? We all get it I think, some people are more dramatic about it than others...if the people who have had negative experiences are afraid to post because they get slammed...guess what...people who have good experiences are also slammed! It is what it is. Why take it so personal? I went to Dr. Almanza, had a good experience..don't get paid to say it...just relaying MY experience! It would be wonderful if everyone was unbiased and nonjudgemental regardless of the Drs we choose but, that's not so on this forum! According to some people there are conspiracys and if that's the case it's unfortunate...do I take it personally? No! Why would I? We learned in grade school to believe 50 percent of what we hear, read and see! With that said I hope anyone that is looking for a weight loss surgeon always does their research to make an informed decision! There is NO foolproof way of this based on opinions..so why beat a dead dog with the drama of Jerusalem clinic? I read about the infections some people posted about and I read about a leak...but, I still elected to go there. I have had no infections, leaks etc. It's been seven weeks and I'm doing well! I feel horrible for the people that get infections and leaks, but it's a risk we all take! There's no way people reading this forum aren't informed of the controversy about this Dr/clinic and still elect to get the surgery! We're adults and life isn't fair...this forum gives alot of positive info and that's what I focus on.

[bkind 1]

Cansleeve I have a suggestion...since it's your mission to "do something" about this clinic that has sooo many problems...go on over to mx and actually get first hand knowledge with camera/camcorder documentation that you can post so we can all see for ourselves exactly what you think you know. FYI..pnw218 was my roomate in mx during our surgery, we get our info firsthand not by hearsay!

[Sandy Johnson 15]

Sorry for the confusion there--I never mentioned a surgeon just a hypothetic example that someone would want to know about. my post was to help us build this bridge not burn it down--read it again with no bias and consider the logic that is all I was doing. If someone went to my surgeon a week after me and had a horible experience should I discount that experience just because I went there. I want only people with real experience to post and you misread my whole post as an attack on some surgeon I have not even researched any of the Mexico surgeons --I was making a hypothetical post to prove the point that people want to know.

The sarcasm may have not translated there--but the "not killing everyone" was 100% sarcasm and a joke (bad one at that) of corse no one is reporting a death I was hoping the emoticon showed the sarcasm. So I blame the emoticon for the bad joke. :sad0::scared0::scared0::blushing:

Sorry that you took this as an attack on you--please re-read it as hypothetical and tell me if the logic is flawed:thumbup1: I edited the post to clarify the Hypothetical nature and again I apologize that my poor writing lead to your misinterpretation.

Best of luck to everyone--I am so looking forward to supporting everyone here and being supported--this is a great board dispite some of the politics.

Sorry about my reaction to your post. This is a perfect example of not being able to read someone's tone in their statements. I guess I need to get a thicker skin. It's just very frustrating when I see people posting things that can be read as factual information when it's not. I do understand now that you were talking about a hypothetical place and speaking with sarcasm.

It's crazy the stuff people post. Saying someone is not a nurse that cares for patients. I guess if they asked the person if she was a nurse and the person said no or refused to answer, that would be suspect. I wonder what they are basing their statement on that someone is or is not a nurse. Also someone stated that there is no way that an emergency can be promptly dealt with at this center in Tijuana. Of course there is an emergency plan in place. It has been used in a couple of instances on patients that were very high risk and needed emergency treatment. Both patients survived and did well too!

Instead of asking very valid questions like "What is your emergency plan in place? Can I be transported to the U.S. in the event of a complication so my insurance will pay?" People would rather assume there is nothing!

I don't understand why that is. I would be happy to answer any questions anyone may have. Just ask!

[Can.sleeved 1]

FYI..pnw218 was my roomate in mx during our surgery, we get our info firsthand not by hearsay!

Hearsay sure when I stand in front of people and they tell me stories of themselves and others it 's good enough for me.

Wow don't look now but we even have somebody working for J/E posting.

Buyer beware, lowest price is it always worth it?

How about steel staples instead of titanium?

The word is getting out and we are thankful...