How important are the rules really?

[missgypsy 1]

I've been reading this thread since it popped up. WOW!!!!! is all I can say...Lots of emotions. Which I believe in 100%. This is a VERY EMOTIONAL subject for everyone involved. It seems we've all been to the point of being overweight and can't do alot about it no matter what we do. The weight will drop and then come back with more attached to it. As I say all the time 'my fat and I, we've bonded. we're best buds' lol. I think the questions everyone has asked are legit. All doctors have different ways of treating there patients and giving advice. Mine won't do the surgery if you are going to continue drinking sodas or alcohol. As he said why waste his time and yours if your not into it 110%. Alot of it is trial and error. What works for one may not work for another. I believe the rules are put in place to help you. Not necessarily hurt you. If you didn't want to loose weight and have a better quality of life then you wouldn't have made the first step to do the research on it and go to the doctor and inquire about it. The way I compensate for the cravings or 'rules' is I tell myself that I'm allergic to it and I can't have it. That way I won't be tempted to eat and/or drink it. So for me that is my rule. I'm sure at one time or another anyone of us will have something we aren't supposed to. BUT I know with me it won't happen again. I have to much invested into this to screw up and throw it all away. If you aren't serious about wanting to loose weight then go have the band taken out and be on your merry way. It's not a miracle band that will make you loose weight. It's a tool to HELP you loose weight. You are the one that is in control of what you put in your mouth. So if you deem that you want sodas, beer, or whatever else your not supposed to have and your not loosing weight then it totally falls back on you. There is no one else to blame but yourself. You are in control of your own destiny.

[monkeymama 0]

i'm not offended in the least. The 'sheep' comment was after, what i felt were, some extremely judgmental comments by other users. This should be a forum where we can ask honest questions and get non-judgmental responses. You know the old adage- those who throw stones shouldn't live in glass houses (be it this issue, or any other issue in your life)

awesome post!!! I agree 100% all this negativity isn't going to help anyone- just make people feel bad.

Edited June 12, 2010 by monkeymama

[MrMom 0]

I think the most important rule here is moderation. I cheated on my pre op diet, in moderation. I had ate real food a few times and had some beers during my pre op phase. Did I survive the surgery, Yes. During my post op, it is easier to follow, because Im not hungry all the time. I moved myself onto solid foods 8 days after surgery, because the liquids didn't satisfy me anymore. I now eat very, very small portions and stop when I'm full. I premeasured my foods in the beginning, but now I'm comfortable what amounts of food I can finish, without overeating.

Best of luck on your journey.

[Froggie D 1]

I find the variety in rules from different doctors very confusing too. I think it is because I would really like to have a nice, neat, clear blueprint of how to do things and get the most out of my band with the least sacrific. I think that is human nature to want that.

However, the reality is that this is a journey and I have to find through trial and error (and a lot of hard work) what is effective for me and develop a working relationship between me and my band.

I decided to start with the basic rules my doctor gave me, try them out and see what happens. Afterall, he has lots of experience with bands and what works for most people and what does not, while regardless of all my research, I am a novice.

I have researched and questioned and talked to my doctor, the dietician, other bandsters, etc to get their insights. But it really comes down to what works for me and my band.

I like what one poster said about that old saying, "Insanity is doing the same things over and over but expecting different results." Obviously what I have done over and over has not gotten the results I want. That is why I needed the band.

I am trying it my doctor's way now and getting good results. When I chose to break a rule and try something, if I get good results, I will continue. If I get bad results, I will back up and do what was getting me results.

The challenge for me is thinking I know more than others and getting caught up in denial and trying to prove I am right. The proof will be in my weight loss, reduction of my medical comorbidities and how I feel. I am trying to let go of being right. I just want to be thin and healthy!

I can intellectually argue all day that this rule makes sense and that rule doesn't. What counts in the end is - does it help me lose weight and avoid hunger and cravings? If I lose, it is right for me. If I don't, it is not right for me.

As much as I would like it, there are no absolutes, no blueprint. Darn!

Edited June 12, 2010 by Froggie D

[LeighaMason 19]

The challenge for me is thinking I know more than others and getting caught up in denial and trying to prove I am right. The proof will be in my weight loss, reduction of my medical comorbidities and how I feel. I am trying to let go of being right. I just want to be thin and healthy!

I wish there was a "like" button on LBT, cause I like this.

[BetsyB 9]

I imagine those with a sheep mentality are the most successful being banded - you know, those folks who take direction without question.

Really? That's your perception?

My prediction is that in a year, you will be bemoaning the failure of your band. In fact, it will be YOUR failure.

I do not have the "sheep mentality" of which you speak. My doctor gives good instructions, most of which I follow explicitly. Those I "bend," I do so after discussion with him.

There is nothing resembling "not questioning" involved. I am a degreed RN, with experience with bariatric patients---and know ALL the questions.

And the answers are simple: DO WHAT YOUR DOCTOR TELLS YOU UNLESS YOU HAVE A COMPELLING REASON NOT TO.

Do some doctors have outlandish requirements? Sure? But by and large, the area of REAL deviation among surgeons is the PRE-OP diet. For post-op, most of us are given pretty similar information.

Follow it or don't. But don't justify your obstinance by insulting those of us who DO take our bands and surgeries seriously enough to do what we are told.

Look. What you did BEFORE banding sure as hell didn't work. You asked a surgeon to cut your body open and insert a device to help you lose weight. You likely signed a contract indicating your willingness to comply with his/her instructions.

Why on EARTH are you working to talk yourself out of doing so now? What on EARTH is more important than your success? Diet Coke? Pasta? REALLY?!

Your surgeon put his/her license on the line taking you on as a patient. If nothing else, show some respect for that. If you're unhappy with the aftercare, express your dissatisfaction, or change doctors.

But don't find roundabout ways to justify self-sabotage. It's nuts.

[elcee 3,340]

Well said Betsy I couldn't agree more. In fact that is the reason why I replied the way I did originally.Something in the tone of the OPs post got my back up.

If the question had been about why the rules differed so much it would have been OK. But it was very flippant in I don't do this and I don't do that........ as though the OP knew better.

There is a vast difference in some of the rules.But if you have a problem with them you should discuss them with your surgeon, not decide to follow the ones that suit you and ignore the ones that don't.

[adagray 1]

Because I have not had any adverse affects, I can't help but wonder why all the restrictions

You may not be having any adverse affects, but you may not be having optimal results.

My experience has been that I have really tried to follow all of my doctor's rules (at least for some time) and then started experimenting w/only the rules that were problematic for me. Some of the rules that were hardest to follow (no carbonation, no artificial sweetener, and no caffeine) turned out to be the best for me. I very begrudgingly gave this all up for the first month after surgery wondering how I would ever satisfy my sweet tooth or have any energy without all of this. As it turns out, I no longer have a sweet tooth (the Diet Coke and artificial sweeteners were just driving my cravings for sweets) and I have more energy than ever (caffeine just had me on a horrible roller-coaster). So, I never went back to any of that.

My doctor also says to go on Clear liquids for 72 hours after a fill. And, trust me, I have TRIED! In the beginning, I just did not have enough restriction to go 3 days w/no food at all. So, I would go as long as I could (usually 24 hours) and then work my way up. By my 3rd fill it got easier, and by my 4th fill (last one), I wasn't hungry at all after my fill so no problem at all.

My doctor doesn't say you can't drink any alcohol, but she highly recommends against any liquid calories. Boy, this was the hardest for me. I love my wine and cocktails and have an active social life that always includes drinking. I was happy to find that as long as I was exercising and following all the other rules pretty well, I didn't have to give up my alcohol and I could still lose weight pretty well. That is until I plateaued the last three weeks. So, I finally had to slay my sacred cow and decided to commit myself to complete abstinence from alcohol until I reach goal. I didn't get this surgery just to make it halfway to goal. So, there you have it.

I think we all end up experimenting w/the rules, but I say just try to give them your best shot to start out with. You just might find out your doctor and nutritionist are right.

[illuminationlady 7]

Really? That's your perception?

My prediction is that in a year, you will be bemoaning the failure of your band. In fact, it will be YOUR failure.

I do not have the "sheep mentality" of which you speak. My doctor gives good instructions, most of which I follow explicitly. Those I "bend," I do so after discussion with him.

There is nothing resembling "not questioning" involved. I am a degreed RN, with experience with bariatric patients---and know ALL the questions.

And the answers are simple: DO WHAT YOUR DOCTOR TELLS YOU UNLESS YOU HAVE A COMPELLING REASON NOT TO.

Do some doctors have outlandish requirements? Sure? But by and large, the area of REAL deviation among surgeons is the PRE-OP diet. For post-op, most of us are given pretty similar information.

Follow it or don't. But don't justify your obstinance by insulting those of us who DO take our bands and surgeries seriously enough to do what we are told.

Look. What you did BEFORE banding sure as hell didn't work. You asked a surgeon to cut your body open and insert a device to help you lose weight. You likely signed a contract indicating your willingness to comply with his/her instructions.

Why on EARTH are you working to talk yourself out of doing so now? What on EARTH is more important than your success? Diet Coke? Pasta? REALLY?!

Your surgeon put his/her license on the line taking you on as a patient. If nothing else, show some respect for that. If you're unhappy with the aftercare, express your dissatisfaction, or change doctors.

But don't find roundabout ways to justify self-sabotage. It's nuts.

BRAVO Betsy!!! Boy, do we love having you around! Well Said!

[LeighaMason 19]

I'm still waiting to hear from that successful long term bandster who doesn't think its important to follow their Dr's rules. We have heard from a few newly banded ones but not anyone who has had their band over a year and is at or near goal, someone who doesn't consider themselves slow losers. I wonder why?

[Jachut 487]

Well, that MIGHT be me. I'm not a rule breaker, I was into this 100% and the carbonation and drinking with meals and Protein stuff were NOT rules for me. So technically, I follow my doctor's advice and would advise anyone to do so.

But patently, since we have such laxer rules and no rules at all a lot of the time in Australia (of course it depends on yoru doctor, like anywhere) then those things simply ARENT hard and fast rules.

I really echo ada's sentiments above - most of the nutrient balance, drinking, alcohol, caffeine advice are recommendations, not rules. If you can lose weight drinking wine, well, wine in moderation is not an entirely bad thing, it has some health benefits. There's no rhyme or reason to the caffeine thing, thats nothing more than one doctor's personal views over anothers, there's no evidence at all that we shoudl avoid it. The drinking thing, well I could drink with meals for the longest time without discomfort, and I did. When it started to hurt beyond certain restriction, I stopped. If I'd stopped losing for any significant time, I might have tried low carb, certainly would have given up alchohol. For each of us, this is OUR body, our experience is unique to US, and any doctor that insists on a cookie cutter approach wouldnt be a doctor I'd choose.

Carbonation hurts. Its very uncomfortable to drink a very bubbly drink with the band. They're also generally rubbish for you. Good enough reason as any not to drink them. Drinking with a meal with adequate restriction is likely to make you vomit. Great reason to avoid it. But does it wash food through and make me feel hungry sooner. Absolutely a resounding NO. It doesnt. So why would I need to obsess about finishing drinking exactly 30 minutes before my meal and WHY would I watch the clock obsessively for an hour after?

I personally believe that the rules doctors set tell an awful lot about the doctors' attitude to fat people. Some seem to want to punish. "i wont do this surgery unless you do this", "you must follow this rule, that rule, avoid this list of foods, count this nutrient" shows quite a lack of understanding about what it is like to be fat, to be an overeater, and definitely shows no empathy for a person who has to live like this forever. I'm very comfortable with my doctor who emphasises finding our own groove with this thing, adapting a lifestyle you can live with, is not unhappy with slow loss (my personal view is slow loss is good, healthier and maintainable, high Protein fast loss is unhealthy, consists of a lot of muscle tissue and long term ketosis will damage your eyes and kidneys, but hey, that's an entire different argement with compelling evidence on BOTH sides). If you love rules, you probably like a doctor who gives them to you black and white, but me, I'd probably tell him to get stuffed. I also dont think doctors are GOD and argue regularly with my GP but then, that's just me.

And the simple truth is, you just dont strictly have to live with rules to be succesful. I lost 100lb in about 18 months, I've kept it off for nearly 3 years now, I have a low BMI and I did it simply by eating sensibly, from all food groups, allowing treats but keeping them to a minimum and excercising regularly and intensely. I can definitely live like this forever.

Look, if you love rules and love being dedicated to a diet and love to count, journal and such, its not a bad thing. Its defintely not going to hurt you. But its not strictly necessary for everyone, it has some disadvantages for many and not wanting to live that way is NOT an indication that someone will fail, will suffer complications or will not keep their weight off.

You can indeed treat the band as a tool to control portions, eat sensibly but more like a normal person and lose weight and keep it off.

But I think the post op requirements are remarkably similar between doctors and are VITAL to stick to. You've just had major surgery on your stomach, you want this thing to work and last, you have to allow it to heal. Why you would f-ck with that, I have no idea. That is just not negotiable. If that's the hardest thing you ever have to do in your life, then you're lucky. I found it really easy to be honest. I was full of new joy and good resolutions about what I was going to achieve. This time it was going to work. That was all the motivation I needed.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Jachut

[cwm812 11]

I'm still waiting to hear from that successful long term bandster who doesn't think its important to follow their Dr's rules. We have heard from a few newly banded ones but not anyone who has had their band over a year and is at or near goal, someone who doesn't consider themselves slow losers. I wonder why?

Well, I think I qualify. I've been banded for over 2 years and I'm only 5 lbs from my goal. Although, I do keep thinking about lowering my goal.

I have to agree with Jachut. Luckily, my doctor isn't the kind who gives you lists and lists of rules to follow. I'm really not ignoring his advice, I'm working with it. But I log nothing, I count nothing and I live like a normal person. Not all my choices are the best and I do think I could have lost this weight a little faster, if I had been diligent about everything. I also think it is likely that if I followed every rule as listed on this website, I'd have rebelled and would be eating a hot fudge sundae right now.

I'm in health care. I truly believe that the best health care you can have is the kind where you are intimately involved with the process. That means talking to your doctor and questioning. These people aren't gods, but they do know plenty. The best doctors listen to their patients and modify their instructions for the individual, and they can explain why you should listen to them. There is so much variation on the rules, because all of them don't work for everyone. My doctor understands that. I guess that's why we have such a good working relationship.

Cindy

[LeighaMason 19]

Cindy-- Yep, 165 pounds lost in 2 years, you definitely qualify!

Jachut-- Thanks for your imput as well.

[Froggie D 1]

What happened to the original poster?

[Jachut 487]

Lol, I kinda suspect it was just a scam to get this sort of debate started.

To bad we're debating sensibly and not fighting, hey?