Students sent home from school for wearing American flag t-shirts on May 5

[loserbob 11]

Well Im done being "gung ho American" here, my wife just called and during the conversation accused me of being in a bad mood, I didnt realize I was, am but if so I should stop because Ill be apologizing to you all later. I love coming to these sites because theyre challenging, dealing with different people, opinions, ideas but in the end we all want the same thing, we just go about finding it in different ways, unfortunately for all of you, mine is the only right way, haha, just kidding. You all have a great night. And as usual Ill end with this, my intent is not to offend anybody.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Maybe our resident fact checker should do a little on her own claims.

AZ HB 2281

I'm reading through this and having a hard time finding where it says they can no longer teach about other cultures? Maybe you can highlight with your favorite red color the part that says no teaching of other cultures in the bill because I sure as heck can't find it. Or maybe your listening to too many liberal news organizations and just spitting out their talking points without doing a little fact checking.:w00t:

I heard the man on tv this morning who wrote this bill say that is what it would do - eliminate ethnic studies. He believes that having ethnic studies promotes segregation. Another man who teaches these types of courses disagreed. I guess the man who wrote it was misspeaking then.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The new law, which was pursued by state schools Superintendent Tom Horne for several years carries provisions that prohibit classes that promote the overthrow of the United States government; promote resentment toward a race or class of people; are designed primarily for a particular ethnic group; or advocate ethnic solidarity as opposed to individualism.

It appears that disallowing a class that is designed primarily for a particular ethnic group would eliminate african-american, mexican and muslim studies. Tom Horne is the man I saw on tv this morning and this is what he said. He didn't want ethnic studies. So maybe he misrepresented his bill.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

from Ariscus99: Maybe our resident fact checker should do a little on her own claims.

Still smarting from your big laundry list of neocon lies about social security being debunked in a nanosecond by me?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

While this isn't the video I saw this morning, Tom Horne makes the same points here. I have to laugh at how he portrays it as "for their (latinos, blacks, muslims) own good".

I think when we segregated the blacks, it was for their own good, too. Isn't it amazing that white men have been telling minorities and women for centuries what is for their own good.

[leroyspuds 0]

What's really behind HB 2281?

From the Washington Post and Los Angeles Times:

The bill, HB 2281, would ban schools from teaching classes that are designed for students of a particular ethnic group, promote resentment or advocate ethnic solidarity over treating pupils as individuals.

"The bill was written to target the Chicano or Mexican American studies program in the Tucson school system," said state Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Horne in an interview with the Los Angeles Times. Horne has been trying to end the Tucson's Ethinic Studies Departments for years, saying it divides students by race and promotes resentment. Horne, a former lawyer who is running for state attorney general and who wrote part of the law, describes the Ethinic Studies program as "promoting ethnic chauvinism."

[Cleo's Mom 257]

What is worrisome to me is how the people in this country always have to have a group of people to target - this group is then blamed for a whole host of problems.

None of my 4 grandparents were born in this country. When they came over here there was much predujice against immigrants. "No Irish Need Apply" and catholics were discriminated against. They were blamed for many things. People didn't understand their "strange" customs.

The blacks were segregated in the south and kept from voting and getting jobs. Everything was fine as long as they were "kept in their place". Then the civil rights changed that and some have never gotten over that, blaming them for taking jobs from white men and the cause of all the problems.

Then the women's rights movement evolved and women were blamed for taking jobs from men and the cause of many problems.

Now we have Mexicans in our country who will someday represent the majority race in this country. So, of course, they are the target now. They are the cause of the problems and of course taking the jobs from the white people.

This is all so reminiscent of Nazi Germany where they had to have a target for all their problems and that was the Jews. Jews were portrayed as taking jobs from the Germans and the cause of their economic woes. So, it was easy for the Germans to look the other way when the Jews were rounded up to go to "labor" camps.

I think if they did a poll of white people in AZ about whether they would support rounding up all Mexicans and putting them in detention camps and sorting out their legal status later, well I think the majority would support that.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[leroyspuds 0]

Don't forget what we did to Japanese Americans during WWII.

People are fearful. They always look for a scapegoat. In Arizona crime and unemployment is being blamed on hispanics. Even though crime statistics say otherwise and white people wouldn't dream of taking some of the low paying jobs occupied by hispanics, Arizonans are getting hysterical. They are becoming a racist state. People hate to admit to being racist so they look for any excuse to justify it.

[ariscus99 1]

from Ariscus99: Maybe our resident fact checker should do a little on her own claims.

Still smarting from your big laundry list of neocon lies about social security being debunked in a nanosecond by me?

Not at all you spouted off liberal propaganda without doing any fact checking whatsoever and then you blame it on something you saw on tv. I'm sure the guy who wrote the bill just happened to mis-speak and you didn't hear from the huff post or the daily kos that that is what the law says. It literally took me about 48 seconds to find and list the bill. You pop off all the time about not letting right wingers get away with posting lies and not posting their source. All I'm doing is holding you to the same standard. I don't know why I shouldn't be allowed to? The bill, regardless of what the huff or kos tells you can be read and undrstood very easily and nowhere in it does it mention not teaching about other cultures and actually has a part in t that says students aren't allowed to have any disciplinary action taken against them because of their nationality.

Edited May 14, 2010 by ariscus99

[leroyspuds 0]

I don't think you're reading ariscus.

Please see my post directly quoting the Arizona Sup. of Schools. He admits the purpose is to get rid of the Ethinic Studies program in Tucson. He helped write the bill.

----------------------------------------------------

What's really behind HB 2281?

From the Washington Post and Los Angeles Times:

The bill, HB 2281, would ban schools from teaching classes that are designed for students of a particular ethnic group, promote resentment or advocate ethnic solidarity over treating pupils as individuals.

"The bill was written to target the Chicano or Mexican American studies program in the Tucson school system," said state Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Horne in an interview with the Los Angeles Times. Horne has been trying to end the Tucson's Ethinic Studies Departments for years, saying it divides students by race and promotes resentment. Horne, a former lawyer who is running for state attorney general and who wrote part of the law, describes the Ethinic Studies program as "promoting ethnic chauvinism."

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Not at all you spouted off liberal propaganda without doing any fact checking whatsoever and then you blame it on something you saw on tv. I'm sure the guy who wrote the bill just happened to mis-speak and you didn't hear from the huff post or the daily kos that that is what the law says. It literally took me about 48 seconds to find and list the bill. You pop off all the time about not letting right wingers get away with posting lies and not posting their source. All I'm doing is holding you to the same standard. I don't know why I shouldn't be allowed to? The bill, regardless of what the huff or kos tells you can be read and undrstood very easily and nowhere in it does it mention not teaching about other cultures and actually has a part in t that says students aren't allowed to have any disciplinary action taken against them because of their nationality.

I was not spouting liberal propaganda but merely repeating what Tom Horne, the man who wrote the bill, said on MSNBC this morning. I did not read about it on dailykos or huffington post. So maybe the author of this bill has some kind of intellectual "disability" rendering him incapable of summarizing his own bill. But my mistake was taking him at his word for what his intentions were for the bill and what it would do and he said it would eliminate ethnic studies. So, your argument is with him, not me. Maybe people like him need to take remedial courses in public speaking to better present their facts. He really didn't come across as being that bright.

And while we're on the subject of fact checking - I'm still waiting for the list of those who wrote paper (published, I presume) that said bush had autism or down's syndrome.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[leroyspuds 0]

Come on now -- it's all over the news. He said exactly what he meant. Cleo's post has been substantiated more than once.

He said that studying hispanic history and culture is insighting hispanic students to be anti-American. (Hence the anti-american part of the bill.) Is this clicking yet? He cites two books in particular that were used as part of the curriculum. He got in a huge argument with Delores Huerta, former associate of Caesar Chavez, who gave a speech at the school. He's been in a royal pissing match with the Ethnic Studies Department for a long time. He was able to deliver a death blow to the Department by riding the current wave anti-hispanic sentiment.

It's all about fear! Fear of there being more brown people than white people. Fear of them gaining political and economic clout as a result. Fear that they'll treat whites the way whites have treated them. It's the same fear the KKK has of blacks.

[leroyspuds 0]

We briefly interupt this discussion to report that Arizona has just passed a law that prohibits frying Beans more than once. (Bill Maher) Arizona's governor stated this has nothing to do with racism toward hispanics and is just a measure necessary to ensure the purity of beans.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

We briefly interupt this discussion to report that Arizona has just passed a law that prohibits frying Beans more than once. (Bill Maher) Arizona's governor stated this has nothing to do with racism toward hispanics and is just a measure necessary to ensure the purity of Beans.< /div>

Very funny. Keep them coming. :w00t:

[ariscus99 1]

Did you read any of the books I posted? They talk about it in there, take the time to read.