ElfiePoo

Ok...first thing I'd do is run your menu through Fitday.com. I can't tell from this since I don't how how much yogurt, cottage cheese, etc. or brand (which makes a difference) so can't guesstimate your Protein, but I'm going to speculate that your problem may be that you're just not getting enough calories or grams of protein. You should be getting a minimum of 60gm protein. Your needs may even be more depending on a number of factors, 60 is usually the minimum. According to my surgeon, Protein shake is fine for breakfast but recommended another mid-morning if I felt the need. I used the EAS powder from Sam's Club and mix it with unsweetened almond milk to keep both calories and carbs down (160 calories, 4 carbs, 25gm protein). It's also much higher in protein than many of the retail shakes like Carnation. Lunch should be (according to surgeon) 3-4 oz protein and 1/2-1 cup vegies. No sliders. Things like soup and yogurt were discouraged...but I think that's a personal thing as long as you aren't hungry and it gets you to the next meal. Oops...just noticed you said you *just* got a fill, in which case sliders are ok for a few days until swelling goes down, but I'd definitely go for the higher protein. Even adding whey Protein Powder to your carnation instant drink would bulk up the protein. If, after 2 weeks, you still can only eat sliders, you might need a bit of an unfill.

What are you eating? Can you post a typical day's menu? .

I just mix tuna or chicken with mayo and celery and then serve it on a bed of lettuce. Sometimes I'll get the bibb lettuce because it has very tender leaves and I'll wrap my tuna or chicken salad a la a thai type wrap. I've done taco meat that way as well. Re: potatoes - depends on which WOE you're following. For true low carb (below 60gm), they're expensive. If you're doing what some doctors consider low carb or following the traditional Diabetic diet, where 160gm a day is allowed, then it's doable and much better than processed carbs like bread. If you have a metabolism disorder, they'll spike your blood sugar. So it just depends on what *you* need. .

Geez...I say I'm going away and no posts for several days? Well, I decided not to. I think I was just having a down day and allowed the stress to get to me, but as Jack Nicholson said in "The Shining"...Honey...I'm ho-o-ome. I've been trying a bunch of things lately to help me with this continued *desire* to eat. I'm not hungry, but I still think of food way too often. Increasing my Protein seemed to be successful but I have to be very careful since the two max-protein drinks (50gm) are 200 calories each. I can't get that much protein in real food without exhorbitant calories which is why I chose the Protein Drinks to supplement. I was going to do intermittent fasting (IF) based on some articles by Dr. Michael Eades (he has a blog). After following his writings for a couple years, I've come to respect what he has to say. However, yesterday (during my first fast day), I found his follow-up article that was written several years after his initial article...and he said that the short term studies just don't pan out as far as increasing insulin sensitivity (my reason for doing it), although it does help suppress ghrelin. So for those without metabolic disorders, IF may still be the way to go to suppress the ghrelin. Oh, IF works with any WOE...low carb or high carb. My hoodia (recommendation by Dr. Bernstein) arrived yesterday, so I'm going to back my protein down to 60gm like it was before and see if this works at killing the desire to eat. He says it works as an appetite suppressant in 65% of his patients. I love that he *gets* that it's not all about hunger. It's all about the brain's desire to eat even when there is no hunger. Something to do with the ghrelin/leptin connection...but I'm just starting to read on that. Anyway...I promised my youngest son I would repair his baby quilt so he could take it off with him to Cedar Point (his summer job). I'm not sure what that says about my sons that they still cart their baby quilts wherever they go. My oldest son and his wife even took their 'ya-ya's' (blankies) on their honeymoon! Have a good one! .

Glad to hear you decided not to go. I recovered very quickly. Surgery at 6:30 a.m., kicked out at 2:30 p.m. because I was doing so well, stopped at the mom-in-law's on the way home and visited for 2 hours and a cup of tea. Then home. Next morning I went to work for 4 hours but was so tired I came home. Back to work the next day and continued on as normal. *STILL* I would never have considered camping. First of all, cot or sleeping bag on the ground...I would have had extreme difficulty getting back up on my feet. Getting out of bed required holding on to my brass headboard, slowly rolling to one side and then sort of rolling to a sitting position while holding my port area with the palm of one hand. If you'd gone camping, they might have had to create a new badge the boys could've worked towards...helping you to your feet. .

Terri, Glad to hear some doctors are getting rid of the medieval post op diets. I was fortunate that my surgeon made these changes years ago so I didn't have to go through the torture. I went through each stage of the postop diet in 2-3 days on each stage so by the end of 2 weeks I was back on regular food. Bypass has been around a lot longer, at least here in the U.S., than the band so many surgeons just took the pre and postop rules for bypass and applied them to their band patients...even though there is no medical reason necessary for such strict postop rules. Sure...if you can follow them, it will most likely result in greater weight loss that first postop month, but the minute you start eating again, it's very likely that much of that will will be regained but YMMV...but most people can't follow them and then they feel guilty and think it's one more failure. .

Your band is 'totally' full...as in you have a 10cc band and there's 10cc Fluid in it...and you're still hungry? Do you have any issues with physical restriction because a band that is completely full would likely cause problems with stuck episodes on some foods. So, a few suggestions. I would either find a new band doctor...or *make* OSU work with you. In either case, the first thing you need to do is find out if it really is full since you're still hungry. They can do this easily enough by drawing out the fluid to see what's there. This would at least rule out a leak. Then, make sure *you* are following the rules. Many surgeons recommend a low carb diet so a typical day might be 1-2 eggs for Breakfast and 3-4 oz of Protein and 1/2-1 cup vegies for lunch and dinner. No slider foods. No drinking with meals. Then pay attention to your body. Are you really 'hungry'...or is it just a desire to eat? Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference at first and we need to really pay close attention. If you think you're hungry, have a cup of hot tea or coffee or bouillion...or even hot Water. It soothes the stomach (and even the mind) long enough to determine whether it's true hunger. Sometimes it's just the ticket for getting you to your next meal. Is it possible the band has failed you? Yep...but I wouldn't go there just yet. .

Personally, I'd be a little cautious about 'running' or even 'jogging' until you at least got under 300...although 300 on you is probably nowhere near as debilitating as 300 was on me (a 5'3' woman). As someone said earlier, start out with baby steps. Just get out there and walk. You can do that right after surgery. Increase your distance and speed (as your postop healing allows). Then progress to running. My brother is a runner and says that running isn't a problem on joints...jogging is because you step down differently on jogging than you do running and it puts more stress on the shin bones and joints than running does. I'm no expert so I can't verify that, but if true, it seems to make sense to go from power walking to running. Most of the orthopedic experts seem to agree that running is good and does not lead to joint problems or osteoarthritis for people who do it as a recreational activity *as long as* the person did not already have joint problems. Although this is not true for the 'professional' athletes who run for a living. Apparently, if you already have issues with your knees and other joints, running may not be appropriate because it may cause faster deterioration. I really couldn't find too much from reputable orthopedists about whether an obese individual would cause damage to their joints from running...but many obese people do have compromised joints from years of abuse, so perhaps getting checked out by an orthopedic doctor first? .

Yep, me too. Plus, and I was so bummed to find this out a couple weeks ago, but the powdered Splenda (packets or bulk) and most sugar free products contain maltodextrin...which can spike blood sugars in diabetics and cause an insulin response (T2)...which can start the cravings again. I immediately went and looked at my Crystal Lite packets and, yep, 'maltodextrin'. Fortunately, I only drank them as an occasional treat, but did notice on the days I had them that I struggled with the cravings more. I just thought it was the 'sweet' taste and it was all in my head. Nope. .

I'm not sure what type of WOE you're trying to follow, but if it's low carb, many people struggle with going cold turkey. So for 3 days just give up sugar (including fruit), then for 3 days give up what (and the sugar). For the next 3 days give up grains (along with the rest). Finally for the last 3 days give up starches. On day 13 tweak your diet a bit more so that now you're eating just Protein and green vegies...and keep your carbs under 60. Under 30 will result in faster weight loss. If you're eating under 60gm of carbs you can eat a diet higher in fat. If you're eating over 60, you probably should pay attention to the fat. If you're not doing low carb, then you can just ignore my post. .

Joleen, You won't regret it, but I'm not sure which book you're referring to. My favorite books...ones I keep going back to (for those who haven't seen them in my other posts) are: The Diabetes Solution by Dr. Richard Bernstein Good Calories/Bad Calories by Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes The Great Cholesterol Con by Dr. Malcolm Kendrick *Lots* of very valuable information...particularly for the insulin resistant who do everything right according to the ADA and still don't lose. ..

Ah pfooey...just found an updated article from Dr Michael Eade's website (love him). Several years back he gave a thumbs up to IF, but in a more recent update, he said that it just hasn't panned out over time for helping insulin resistance or even losing any noticeable weight. In fact, some people gained. It's good for other things, but doesn't seem to be so for the thing I'm particularly interested in. Now he did say that studies were of such short duration that they don't know if the problems (increased blood sugars, development of insulin resistance) would resolve over time so I'm tempted to at least try it for a few weeks and/or until my blood sugars become worrisome. I *am not* going to go back on insulin. Note: This obviously isn't an issue for people who do not have metabolic disorders and he did reiterate that ghrelin production did seem to lesson over time with IF so it might still be a good thing for others. .

Mandy, I'm so sorry that you had your band removed. Have you considered the sleeve instead of the bypass? It's a bit less drastic. .

You're not a failure! You're not a failure! You're not a failure! Keep telling yourself that! This is a journey. We aren't going to change a lifetime of bad eating habits (which generally are a result of our lifestyle which we've developed as a result of our eating habits) overnight. You've lost 40 lbs! Yeah!!! Don't look for your band to physically restrict how much you can eat. It just doesn't work that way for many people. Look for cessation of hunger and until you figure out what that is...eat a reasonable meal and then step away from the plate. Count calories, count carbs, follow weight watcher's guidelines...do something that helps you determine what 'reasonable' is. My surgeon was happy with my 2 eggs and 2 slices of bacon for Breakfast (I do low carb/high fat) and then 3-4 oz of Protein and a cup of vegies for lunch and dinner. When my food was gone, I was done. Even now, without my band (long story), I try to keep the same habits because they keep me accountable. It's just too easy to keep eating 'because we can'. .

Christine, I did get my band removed. I'm one of the people the band didn't help (other than that it make me take a serious look at my eating habits and just try harder...that's worth a lot), so no I wouldn't get it again. My surgeon still feels like I would be a good candidate for the sleeve since I did follow the rules and would most likely be successful, but I'm just not at the point of reconciling myself to being that drastic. Now, if in the next 6 months I see my weight climbing and problems once again with needing meds for my diabetes...yeah, I'll do it in a heartbeat. There are all sorts of possible problems with every WLS...some they don't even think to tell you. You just have to weigh those issues against what you're dealing with as far as weight gain and possible health problems and then decide which takes precedence *for you*. .

Rev, yes, that is one of the ways to do IF. I'm pretty excited about this but never thought it was possible for a diabetic since you're slamming your body with all your calories in that short time frame (which logically would mean a huge insulin response and a problem for diabetics). That's why they prefer I do the 24/24 but from 6pm to 6 pm. It's a bit closer to still spreading your calories out through a 24 hour period...just with your sleep break in the middle of it instead of at the end. I'll keep you all updated. One bit of advice was to make sure that my meal before the fast was sufficiently high in fats so I didn't binge at the end of the fast. I shouldn't wake up hungry in the morning. So I had wings for dinner last night, figuring the fat was high enough to ensure getting through my first day of fasting. I'm not hungry this morning, but my stomach is certainly asking, "Where the heck is the food?" .

I tend to read...a lot...and I make copies of articles, studies and lists of books and take them into my diabetes specialist and primary care and we talk about it. Well recently, I came across several articles that said one way to quickly reverse insulin resistance is through intermittent fasting (IF). It can be done with low carb or regular diets. I took these articles into my doctors to find out what they thought and was surprised to find that not only had they heard of it, but they recommend it! There are a number of ways to do IF, but their recommendation was 24 hours of eating followed by 24 hours of no eating and the 24 hours should run from 6 pm to 6 p.m. That way you actually do get to eat something each 'day' even though the 24/24 rule is still in effect. So yesterday I ate Breakfast and lunch (my typical low carb fare meals. I had a small Protein snack (3 oz of cheese) around 5 p.m. Nothing after 6 p.m. Today, no breakfast or lunch but I'll get dinner at 6 p.m. I'm planning on a 4-6 oz burger with cheese and salad with blue cheese dressing. Then I'll get breakfast and lunch, but no dinner the day after...and so on. Apparently, another side effect they've found is that over time the body stops producing as much ghrelin, and the appetite is suppressed. I like this better than the 'pushing protein' (even though it seems to be working) because it has the added benefit of helping me become insulin sensitive...which will also help with faster weight loss. Am I hungry? Not so far <fingers crossed>...but even if I am, I know I'll get to eat at 6 p.m. .

We've gotten quite a bit off topic, so I thought I'd post an update to my original post since I've been doing increased Protein for about 9 days now. I'm happy to say that my desire to eat really seems to be gone as a result of the increased protein. Since I am a diabetic and always at risk for impaired kidneys, I did call my doc ahead of time to make sure my recent lab work verified that I had no kidney impairment...something she keeps a close eye on. Now what to do with the Hoodia that just arrived in today's mail. I'd like to try it but I'm kind of going with the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' approach for now since I'm soooo close (2 lbs) to Onederland.

It might depend on how the surgeon places the band. My surgeon folds a piece of stomach (?) down around the band, kind of like an elastic waistband on a pair of pants. He said it prevents the band from slipping. He did say that about 25% of his patients never need a fill. The band puts just enough pressure on the vagus nerve by itself to control the hunger. .

Ok...I did just find a study in a 2009 issue of Appetite (a science journal) that many other sites use as their source for cognitive impairment as a result of low carb. What I've pulled from this so far is: The study was on a small group of 19 women...some following low carb, some following a traditional ADA diet. The low carb diet was *zero* carbs for the first week - no nuts, no eggs, no cheese, no vegetables...because all of these do contain trace amounts of carbohydrates. The first point I'd like to make is that I don't know of any low carb diet that restricts these items. Even Atkins, requires people to eat 2 cups of salad type vegies during the first 2 induction weeks and cheese and eggs are allowed and encouraged. The second week they could add 5-8gm of carbs a day. Again, this means severely limiting all vegetables, eggs, and cheese. The third week they could go 'all the way' up to 10-16 grams. Still below the 20gm Atkins allows during the induction (first 2 weeks) phase. By the third week on Atkins, most people are on their way up to 30gm...significantly higher than this small study group. At the end of week 1, researchers found no difference in cognitive ability between the two groups. At the end of week 2 and 3 they found some minor differences...but there are a couple things to keep in mind. First, the body will make glucose for the brain if it is denied carbohydrates, but it takes time for this to happen. So, in the short term (1-2 weeks), there may be some *slight* impairment, but over time the body adapts and the brain once again gets the glucose it needs. Second, the slight cognitive differences found in weeks 2 and 3...well, yes, these people weren't getting any carbs at all so their body was probably going bonkers. Atkins is the most restrictive low carb diet (to begin with) and even he starts with a minimum of 20 carbs. Interestingly, despite the above, the low-carb group actually consistently performed better on a task requiring sustained attention...and the researchers found that the ADA group did worse on a measure of confusion. This study did not follow these women beyond 3 weeks or on a normal low carb diet of 30-60gm per day. *OK, I should add that there are people eating what they call a 'primal' diet which is basically Protein and fat...pretty much zero carb. After they get acclimated to it and their bodies switch from producing glucose from protein instead of carbs, results seem to show a return to the previous cognitive levels. Some experience better because the carb fog is gone (their expression). Personally, I've given up just about everything else and I'm keeping my vegies! .

Please address the issues instead of personal attacks. Whether or not I leave is my business. No' date=' science is not the embodiment of progress. One hopes it is that...but too often, the studies themselves are faulty. I have no problem with traditional science, but I don't place my life entirely in its hands...particularly when I can go read the original studies and see how shaky they are to begin with. Pharmaceutical companies are constantly doing studies (because they're required to) and we all know the spin they put on their findings...and how many drugs have been pulled off the market when it was discovered the companies weren't quite truthful in their findings. If the science was always interested in the truth, that might be so...but many studies are done for a specific purpose...to push a specific agenda. I'll be honest and admit that when I look at low carb studies I view them just as skeptically for the same reason. One does not have to be a scientist in order to read their studies and come to logical conclusions. Putting ones faith in someone just because they have all the right little letters after their name is' date=' in my opinion, foolish. Degrees do not confer open mindedness or true intelligence. Some of the most intelligent people I know have nothing beyond a bachelor's degree. I've met more than my fair share of close minded idiots with doctorates, so we'll just have to disagree on the value of that education. Except that the risks you're quoting aren't verifiable. Experts in the field of nephrology say there is no evidence that a high protein diet harms healthy kidneys. Also, despite spending several days searching, I could find no reputable source study that proved that low carb caused cognitive deficits...although I did find several sites claiming this as fact with no source. The same can be said of Weight Watchers or any other diet. It's why there are so many fat people in the world. Some will stick to the WOE that works for them...some won't. I have no problem discussion potential risks...when they're based in fact. But telling people that eating a high protein diet will lead to kidney problems goes against what the nephrology experts are saying. There is no evidence to back up the belief that a low carb diet results in reduce cognitive abilities either. Please...if you have the studies, post them. I would truly be interested in reading them. Bernstein, Kendricks, Eades and Taubes do a very good job of listing the studies in their books that back up their claims that a low carb diet, even one that is all animal protein, is healthy and does not lead to cardiovascular disease, etc. Don't just believe them. Go find the studies and read them and come to your own conclusions. I would like to bring up the 20 Harvard study that concluded in 2006 that so many like to use as their source that low carb diets are bad. The thing to keep in mind is that this was a questionnaire study. So the validity of the study is questionable since there is no way to verify the veracity of questionnaire responses. There's also the issue of bias. Their report says that there was an insignificant difference in cardiovascular risk between those who ate animal protein vs vegetable protein. What's interesting is that despite this finding, their conclusion still says 'vegetable protein' is better. Out of curiosity, I went and did a search and discovered that this study is used by both the pro-low carb and anti-low carb factions. They just all put their own spin on it. Now, I think it's pretty apparent to anyone still reading that you and I will never see eye to eye because you believe if someone doesn't have a bunch of tiny letters after their name, then they have nothing useful to say. While these are the people doing the studies, they do publish those studies in detail and it is possible for intelligent people with a background in the sciences (which Taubes has by the way) to read the reports and verify the accuracy of those conclusions. I don't have Taubes science knowledge, but I can read the studies, read the conclusions of the researchers and read Taubes conclusions and why he disagrees...and even come to my own conclusions. Now, I am more than happy to discuss *facts* but in a civil manner. So please feel free to post your sources. .

If you aren't eating low carb, then Beans can be combined with rice to form a complete Protein. Beans, on most diet plans like weight watchers or the ADA's diabetic diet are considered a 'starch' so you'd count them as you would bread (this applies to corn and peas too). .

A friend of mine wrote this but I thought it might shed light on why some people stall when they eat things with artificial sweeteners, particularly the 'low carb' diet bars (e.g. Atkins & south Beach). You can also add Maltodextrin (found in powdered splenda - packet or bulk) to this. From what I read so far, glycerin is metabolised only when your liver glycogen is depleted, or in other words you are in keto. At what rate and at what GI I am unsure. Now in regards to maltitol. It is a scam. Maltitol is metabolised at 75% and provides 3 calories per gram as compared to sucrose which is metabolised at 100% and provides 4 calories per gram. Sure Maltitol metabolises "slower" than sugar, so it dosn't spike you insulin as much as sugar does at the same time but there are 2 aspects to consider: LC in terms of Ketosis: Brain needs 100g of glucose a day (25g after adaptation) regardless of insulin responses. If your brain gets that glucose from the 75% metabolisation of maltitol, then your ketone production can be halted, as well as all lypolisis that generally is caused by ketosis. LC in terms of Insulin Management: Regardless of whether you are in keto or not, insulin triggers are what store dietary fat, and keep it locked away in your fat cells. Even if Maltitol has lower GI value of 36 - 53 (depending on form) it is still not that much different that table sugar (sucrose) with a GI value of 60 - 65. .

Yes, but they're actually called Shirataki noodles. You can find them in the grocery store in the same section as the tofu. They aren't completely carb or calorie free, but they are very low. Per 4 oz: Calories 20, Carbs 3 I know a lot of my low carb friends love them, but they smell and taste 'fishy' to me. Don't know why since they're made of tofu and I think tofu smells very fresh and clean, but it's enough to put me off. .

The Harvard study this person is referencing is here. What is interesting about the study is that the researchers concluded that a vegetable Protein diet was better than animal protein as it relates to coronary heart disease risk...even though they admit (further up in the report) that their findings showed the difference was "insignificant". Also, more importantly, old thought was that Type 2 diabetics developed diabetes because of lack of exercise and excess weight. Now we know that is not true. You don't get diabetes from eating. You get it because you have a genetic predisposition for it. There are many people in the U.S. alone who are obese and yet do not have diabetes...and there are people who have diabetes who are not obese. If you do not have the genetic predisposition for diabetes, you can carb load as much as you want and you still won't develop diabetes...and that is fact. .