Octuplets and SIX other children??!!!

[pattygreen 5]

Patty, don't you remember her going on national TV claiming not to be receiving public assitance?

she was getting food stamps. When she said she wasn't getting welfare, she meant cash assistance. She didn't call foodstamps 'welfare'. My adult daughter used to get foodstamps, and she didn't consider it welfare, because welfare was when you got a check from the state.

Now she talks about wanting to be off of it, and not be a burden. She was lying then, which is obvious now---that it was brought to light, by someone other than her. Why do we believe her now?

She was offered a safe home and helpful environment for her and her children, and refused it.

because it came with strings attached that she didn't want to abide to. That certainly is her right.

Solely on the basis, that they did not want her exploiting the children. What would you say her priority is?

she doesn't want anyone telling her she can't have a tv show if she chooses to one day.

again, her right.

Did you watch the video----of her child smacking her? What is going to happen when the same out of control child smacks a newborn? They are not going to smile serenely.

I've seen youngsters hit their moms for attention before. Still, not a reason to take them away from her.

She has no control over the children she has now. She has no time for the children she has now.

How do you know this? Because of a video you viewed that was a few minutes long? Have you ever spent 24 hours in her house before?

I said back in the first few pages, she was receiveing disability on a speech delayed child. I said then, I have a grandson who is speech delayed----his help? His family TALKING to him.....not talking to a camera while literally fighting off children.

She was giving her time to the cameraman at that moment, not her son. Who's to say that when they are alone in the home together that she doesn't constantly talk to him?

Not taking money from the government, and paying a speech therapist to do what a Mom could do most of the time. If she has no time to spend talking and working with the speech delayed child now, what is going to happen when you add the new 8 babies....and are on guard 24/7 because they are not safe around the older 6 kids!

My DIL is pregnant, due in August, and is also the parent of my 3 year old (today is his birthday) grandson that is speech delayed. He is also VERY wild. She is home with him all the time, and is concerned with how he will react to the new baby. I think she is rightly concerned. I cannot imagine that multiplied the way this woman is facing it. She alone will not be able to do this.

That's your opinion. Who says she will be alone? It's her business, and if she wants other people to help her with her kids, what's it to anyone else? Some moms drop their kids off in daycare for 10 hours a day, and have someone else care for them.

So these kids are not going to know who is in charge. There is going to be a group from this church in on Tue. & Thur. and from somewhere else on Sat. & Mon.....you get the idea. None of these kids will develop attachments, they will not have any continuity in their lives.

Not true. Maybe you don't know how it is to have a church family, but it is very nice. People are friends and help out better than your own family sometimes.

Yes the deed is done. Us bashing her is not getting anything accomplished. So what? It eases the anger we feel at the helplessness we have in helping the innocent kids.

Why should you be so angry at her? If you're going to be angry with her, then you need to be angry with EVERY mom who has more kids than you feel they should.

It eases the anger we have at a VERY selfish and immature woman, who obviously cares more for herself, her looks, and her future fame, that she does for all the kids she has brought into life.

Maybe she likes to look good. You can be a mom and be attractive, too. Saying that she cares more for fame and beauty than her kids is pretty presumptuous of you don't you think? I mean, really, how do you know how she feels?

I know you support her because she brought them into life as opposed to destroying the embryos, or aborting---and that is fine by me, you have your right to support her in those actions.

While I am pro life and am glad that she didn't just kill her unborn fetus', I do not in any way support her decision to have so many kids without a father for them, and even though others may disagree, I believe in marriage before kids is the right way to go. So, I don't support her decision. I just feel that now that it is made, why look back. I believe that everyone deserves another chance. I believe that all do wrong and make bad decisions, some worse than others, but to throw her to the wolves, call her names, condem her, gossip about her insensely, is worse than what shes done.

Many, many families, want a baby...A baby--not a litter, who those embryos could have been donated to. I have a friend that her niece had to have a massive surgery, including removal of her ovaries, when she was a child due to a ruptured appendix that caused massive infection----she has 2 kids----both through donated eggs. This woman had other options, that she chose not to use. She knew then she did not need more children, with 3 on disability, she surely already had her hands full. She was already on assisstance, and living with the help of a family home....another pregnancy was ludicrous! It was in itself sinful to my way of thinking....and apparantly many others feel the same.

I hope that someone, be it you or someone else, DOES help her. I hope there are enough someones to keep those babies safe. I can picture an out of control 3 year old bashing a baby in the head with a metal car toy---who do you get mad at, hold responsible? The 3 year old who was never taught better? Or the parent that never taught the child when they were 1 or 2? I know who I am going to blame. But will that do the injured infant any good, or the 3 year old who grows up to learn they are responsible for having maimed their sibling?

This goes beyond what is right or wrong in your religious belief, this is an unsafe environment for 14 kids, regardless who is there to help this week.

What does my 'religous' belief have to do with anything? I never said what she did was right. I have always said that I feel anyone who wants children should do it Gods way. (No sex before marriage). Whenever there are problems in the word like this , you can see where if only people were obedient to God's laws, then we wouldn't even be talking here about her. God doesn't have these rules to follow because He wants us to be unhappy. He makes the rules for EVERYONES best interest.

Do you really think the church women are still going to be going in 2-4 days a week in 15 years? She is still going to be needing help then.....especially when we do not know she will not have more.

After the kids are old enough to walk on their own, or around 2, it will get much easier for her. When they begin to do alot of things for themselves. Then when they go to school, it will be a help. Some people who have never had a large family don't get it. I had 10 kids and ran a daycare of kids out of my home besides. For me it was nothing. For my sister in law, she went out of her mind with just 2. Everyone is different. Just because you can't fathom the job, doesn't mean she wont be able to do it.

And yes he has a home with 4 bedrooms. I am sure she will take one for herself. That leaves 14 kids to divide up among 3 bedrooms. They are young, I see no issue with it now. Give it a few years----the home is not going to be big enough.

She can cross that bridge when she gets there. Many people upgrade their homes when their kids get older.

The one she has now is filthy! Will she do better when she has that many more kids to deal with?

How she lives is her business. I've been in homes where you can't even walk because dirty clothes are all over the floors, yet they had NO kids.

Laundry alone will be a full time job.

I've done the laundry for a family of 12 for many many years. It wasn't so hard.I never folded anything. I basically sorted right from the dryer into their own baskets. They were responsible to put their own baskets away. When my kids turned 5 or 6, I taught them how to use the machines. In my large family, I only wash for 2 people now, my husband and myself. ALL my kids have done their own laundry for the past 8 years.

Cooking and feeding that many young children, another full time job.

Not full time. Whether you spend the time to cook for 1, or 12, it's not much longer. I spend as much time making a meal for my husband and myself as I do when I cook for all my family. And the kids do the dishes.

Where is school and a job going to work for this woman.

I graduated bible college on line while raising all my kids. I also worked in my home. It is possible.

She cannot even tell her own children apart----how can she learn them? There simply is not enough time in each day.

She can tell them apart.

These are the issues I would like to see addressed. Not glossed over like she tends to do.

It's just not your place to see them addressed. It's her business.

[TQUAD64 9]

Hey Lulu, I read that on the thread too that Gloria contacted CPS, but I really don't know if that is true. Other than someone out there did make a contact to CPS, which created an investigation. I know that is true.

I might not sure what is going on with the California Medical Board and their investigation with the fertility doctor. I have not heard much about him.

[Kat817 19]

LOL, it is hard to even know where to begin with you. First of all I will thank you NOT to tell ME what my place is, I have never done that to you, I ask you how you felt about her half truth responses, and what makes you feel she is being honest now basically, and you passed over that.

If she or your daughter or the president for that matter does not consider food stamps being assistance, then they are sorely mistaken-----they are being given something for nothing.

When I put thoughts or actions onto this woman---it is MY opinion, yet you go on telling me why she did this or why she didn't have to do that, and that is IT, but no Patty, that is simply YOUR opinion. It is no more right or no more of a sure thing than mine.

I watched them show her pictures of her infants and she did NOT know them. She laughed, and said over and over that was this or that one.....and they all have the same face. Mothers of identical twins don't even see their children as having the same face. My point in that being, that yes, they are small and similar, she simply does not have enough time to spend with each of these babies, to learn to tell them apart. I was not dogging her for it, just saying no matter what, there is only 24 hours in a day, and when you divide that between 14 children----all under 8 years of age, and try to sleep, and do ANYTHING else, then your time with each of those children is very limited.

Contrary to what you believe, I have grown up with an awesome church family. A very real, small town church family---in a church that I was raised in from infancy. And here is how it works-------not just in my own church either, it is a subject we have discussed in other aspects (in particular, bringing food for funerals)....There is usually a very strong core of members who "do" for the church, and most of them are women, who are for the most part older. They are the ones who as we had discussed, take in meals, and provide rides for people to Dr.'s etc., help care for young and old when the needs arise.

It does not mean that others in the church do not care, they simply have less time. So do we expect this church family to be around for years doing this for her? At 2 life is not going to be easier with 8 2 year olds. At least as infants--when you put them down in spot A-----they will still be there when you go back to spot A. Not so with toddlers.

I too ran a day care, I am not flustered by children, but even in licensed day care situations, that is too many infants to be in one persons care!

No it is no skin off my nose if those kids get put to bed by a different person every night, and fed lunch by a different face every day. Or if the same person never changes their diaper twice. Will it affect me? No but I am not an idiot, I KNOW it will affect the child.

You comparing your family to hers is no more similar than me comparing mine. None of us had 14 children under the age of 8. Has anyone here? Does anyone you know personally? Not me. So I simply look at it realistically......X amount of things to be done in X amount of time, and it just does not work. Someone or something gets short changed. In MY OPINION watching how her first 6 children act shows exactly who was short changed.

And no I do not find it presumptuous of myself (and many others here) to feel that she cares more for her looks and her fame than her children.

Watch the interviews. She is dressed nice, and has a recent manicure (which has already been discussed in relation to these preemies)---but her childrens hair often looks totally unbrushed. Yes it is a TV show, and they may not always be that way. But if my child was going to be on TV, we would discuss their actions, and they would be dressed and clean.

I can imagine that would be hard with 6 kids as young as these are, with twins, and one with autism. So I can sympathize with that being difficult....then I think OMG she still has 8 more to bring home, and they are all the same age and have multiple issues facing them.

Like it or not....I am free to state my opinion. I am not attacking you, you were the voice of dissent, and seem to come to this womans rescue at every turn. Which is why I ask you the questions.

In the process of that, yes I do have an extremely low opinion of her. I have never said anything about you. Please give me the same respect.

Kat

[BethFromVA 5]

i also wonder what is going on w/that dr & fertility clinic...at the very least it should have been shut down & dear dr lisc. suspended.

I read last week that this same doctor performed another fertility treatment for a lady who was in a similar situation -- no job and multiple embryos (though not as many babies). The guy should be tarred and feathered and run out of town.

[TQUAD64 9]

Great response Kat. One can only hope that these babies will be taking care of properly, but with octo-mom deciding t..v show over free nursing care one has too wonder.

Now, I just don't understand why Pattygreen and her big ole' church family don't rent a bus, head it over to California, and collect octo-mom and her brood. Afterall, Pattygreen did state that her and her husband will take the whole octo-clan in.

I personally, will feel so much better knowing that Pattygreen and her big ole' church family will be helping out and taking care of all these kids.

[BethFromVA 5]

Now, I just don't understand why Pattygreen and her big ole' church family don't rent a bus, head it over to California, and collect octo-mom and her brood. Afterall, Pattygreen did state that her and her husband will take the whole octo-clan in.

Because some people do much better being all talk and no action and cluck-clucking at people who actually point out the idiocy of all of this.

And food stamps are NOT welfare?? WTF?? Since WHEN??

[Carrie_C 9]

She was on ET and she said something about she didn't accept the donated services because they depend on donations, and there weren't any. But I couldn't really make out what she was saying. Did anyone catch that?

I agree, her children are wild! I am really worried about the 8 babies being around those children. They also said on ET that CPS had been called on her before but they didn't find any reason to take the kids. I really don't think CPS cares. I know they don't where I live.

[BethFromVA 5]

She was on ET and she said something about she didn't accept the donated services because they depend on donations, and there weren't any. But I couldn't really make out what she was saying. Did anyone catch that?

I agree, her children are wild! I am really worried about the 8 babies being around those children. They also said on ET that CPS had been called on her before but they didn't find any reason to take the kids. I really don't think CPS cares. I know they don't where I live.

She's gonna be a child psychiatrist, yet hers are wild. Riiiiight.

[plain 12]

I read last week that this same doctor performed another fertility treatment for a lady who was in a similar situation -- no job and multiple embryos (though not as many babies). The guy should be tarred and feathered and run out of town.

Wow....He is responsible for a lot of kids. There hasn't been a dude responsible for this many babies since I was voted "best-looking in snug trousers" back in high school!

[OneHotMama 0]

[TQUAD64 9]

Wow....He is responsible for a lot of kids. There hasn't been a dude responsible for this many babies since I was voted "best-looking in snug trousers" back in high school!

Puts a whole knew twist on the phrase Baby Daddy. Can we actually think of him as Baby Daddy? Afterall, he was there to help plant them so to speak.

[Band_Groupie 3]

I saw part of an interview with her last night (might have been ET). She was playing with the kids in the backyard and even she said her first 6 were already being effected by knowing about the other 8. She said her oldest daughter especially has been acting out and is sad and angry, so her plan is to give this daughter a 'special day' each week. Let's see 14/7 days...they'll each get 1/2 a day...oh, but what would happen with the other 13?

[pattygreen 5]

LOL, it is hard to even know where to begin with you. First of all I will thank you NOT to tell ME what my place is, I have never done that to you, I ask you how you felt about her half truth responses, and what makes you feel she is being honest now basically, and you passed over that.

I don't think it is anyones business to address her issues except HER. So that's why I said that. I didn't pass over why I felt she is being honest now. I said that when she stated that she wasn't on welfare, she didn't consider food stamps welfare. So, she wasn't being dishonest, just misinformed. Welfare isn't only cash. But I can see where she got that from. When my daughter was getting foodstamps at one time, she didn't consider that welfare, because if you got welfare here, you would get a check (cash assistance).

If she or your daughter or the president for that matter does not consider food stamps being assistance, then they are sorely mistaken-----they are being given something for nothing.

She was asked if she was getting welfare, Not if she was getting assistance. SOME people consider welfare a cash check from the state. She did, and so did my daughter once. So, that's why she answered that question NO.

When I put thoughts or actions onto this woman---it is MY opinion, yet you go on telling me why she did this or why she didn't have to do that, and that is IT, but no Patty, that is simply YOUR opinion. It is no more right or no more of a sure thing than mine.

So. What's your point? We can both give our opinions. Some of mine are just the opposite of yours. So what.

I watched them show her pictures of her infants and she did NOT know them. She laughed, and said over and over that was this or that one.....and they all have the same face. Mothers of identical twins don't even see their children as having the same face. My point in that being, that yes, they are small and similar, she simply does not have enough time to spend with each of these babies, to learn to tell them apart. I was not dogging her for it, just saying no matter what, there is only 24 hours in a day, and when you divide that between 14 children----all under 8 years of age, and try to sleep, and do ANYTHING else, then your time with each of those children is very limited.

When I sometimes look at baby pictures of all my kids, I get them mixed up, too.

With big families your time is divided. But, you just do your best to show love and attention to all of them, and they show love and attention to each other. They grow up understanding that mom is just 1 person, but doesn't love them any less. I came from a family of 10. My mom didn't give me much 1 on 1. But I was more loved and cared for than my best friend whose mom only had 2 kids. I read bed time stories to all my kids at once in my bed. We would gather together before bedtime and I would read to them as a group . Some laying on the bed, some on my lap, one sitting beside me. They weren't neglected, and I'm sure she will do the same.

Contrary to what you believe, I have grown up with an awesome church family.

No contrary here.

I never said I believed you didn't know what a church family is like. I said "maybe you don't know what it's like to have a church family but it's very nice."

A very real, small town church family---in a church that I was raised in from infancy. And here is how it works-------not just in my own church either, it is a subject we have discussed in other aspects (in particular, bringing food for funerals)....There is usually a very strong core of members who "do" for the church, and most of them are women, who are for the most part older. They are the ones who as we had discussed, take in meals, and provide rides for people to Dr.'s etc., help care for young and old when the needs arise.

It does not mean that others in the church do not care, they simply have less time. So do we expect this church family to be around for years doing this for her?

I hope not. If I were her, I wouldn't want them to be around for years. The first year of the 8 babies lives would be helpful, for all the feedings and changings.

At 2 life is not going to be easier with 8 2 year olds. At least as infants--when you put them down in spot A-----they will still be there when you go back to spot A. Not so with toddlers.

Did you ever hear of toddler gates? To keep them in one or two rooms only. They help. For me, once my kids got older and could be taught to do things for themselves, it did get easier. ALOT easier.

I too ran a day care, I am not flustered by children, but even in licensed day care situations, that is too many infants to be in one persons care!

I agree about the # of infants. And that is why for the first year she will need her church to help her, or her friends or family. So.

No it is no skin off my nose if those kids get put to bed by a different person every night, and fed lunch by a different face every day. Or if the same person never changes their diaper twice. Will it affect me? No but I am not an idiot, I KNOW it will affect the child.

Who says it has to be a different person every night? I believe that so long as mom is the one constant figure who is always there, they'll be fine.

You comparing your family to hers is no more similar than me comparing mine.

The only way I am comparing my family to hers is by stating that I had what people consider a large family, too. I can relate to things that people say about mothers with alot of kids. No time for them, no individual care, affording it, how will they go to college, they will suffer emotionally, etc. Just a bunch of nonsense by people who never had a large family and just don't know how it really is.

I can't relate to her on having 8 babies at once of course. The most I had was 7 children under age 8 at once with 3 others age 10, 11 and 15. So, I believe it will be a struggle for her at least the first year. But, she can get through it with help.

None of us had 14 children under the age of 8. Has anyone here? Does anyone you know personally? Not me. So I simply look at it realistically......X amount of things to be done in X amount of time, and it just does not work. Someone or something gets short changed. In MY OPINION watching how her first 6 children act shows exactly who was short changed.

And no I do not find it presumptuous of myself (and many others here) to feel that she cares more for her looks and her fame than her children.

Even with 10 kids, I still had time to do my hair and makeup and paint my nails. Noone can truly say they know what her prioritys are. Noone can truly say that she cares more about herself then her kids. Only she knows if that's true or not.

Watch the interviews. She is dressed nice, and has a recent manicure (which has already been discussed in relation to these preemies)---but her childrens hair often looks totally unbrushed. Yes it is a TV show, and they may not always be that way. But if my child was going to be on TV, we would discuss their actions, and they would be dressed and clean.

I can imagine that would be hard with 6 kids as young as these are, with twins, and one with autism. So I can sympathize with that being difficult....then I think OMG she still has 8 more to bring home, and they are all the same age and have multiple issues facing them.

Like it or not....I am free to state my opinion.

Who said you weren't?

I am not attacking you,

Who said you were? (And, I am not attacking you either.)

you were the voice of dissent, and seem to come to this womans rescue at every turn. Which is why I ask you the questions.

In the process of that, yes I do have an extremely low opinion of her. I have never said anything about you. Please give me the same respect

Where did that come from? I never said anything about you. I reread my rebuttle to you in the last post. (The only thing I can think of is when I said "don't you feel you are being presumptuous about knowing that she loves and cares for herself more than she loves her kids?" I believe it is presumptuous for anyone to say they know how someone else feels about anything.)

Kat

--------------------------------------------------

Edited March 4, 2009 by pattygreen

[Kat817 19]

She was asked if she was getting welfare, Not if she was getting assistance. SOME people consider welfare a cash check from the state. She did, and so did my daughter once. So, that's why she answered that question NO.

I clipped this directly from your post as opposed to quoting the entire thing for the sake of space. But this comment for instance is what I am asking you about.

You STATE that IS why she answered no. You STATE it as fact. I could just as well STATE she was lying, all the while knowing the fact that food stamps and SSDI is assistance. We are neither one her---we are adding our opinions. Yet you see ours as bashing, and yours as gospel truths.

When I or anyone else says that we think she did something for a certain reason, you ask how we know what she would think or say or do, or tell us how it can be done because you did it, blah, blah, blah.

You TELL us how she feels like you and she are one and the same.

Yet none of us knows how she feels at all. We get different views everytime she opens her mouth, and gives an interview. I will admit, I seldom see them on TV, I have caught a few, but most of them I get through the links here.

I am finished discussing this with you, as I feel you are totally out of touch with any of this discussion. I did not have 14 children, I did not have 10 children, I had 3. I read to each of them, and yes I even read to them all in one bed. But seriously Patty------this woman cannot keep a child on her lap to look pretty for the camera, none of them seem well enough behaved to lay in a bed and listen to the story, let alone a bed with 14 tired children in it. It is not realistic.

My kids were each a year apart, when we blended families, and there were many times that put them too close together age wise. Sports, dance class etc. I run around like a chicken with my head cut off, because it all took place at once. That was 3 kids.

Yes we blended a family. I brought one daughter into it, he brought a son and a daughter. I was thrilled, I wanted more kids. But a divorce from my daughters father, put an end to that thought right then. I was single, and totally responsible for her upbringing. She was raised financially by me, and emotionally by me. I did not ignore her while trying to grow my family. Yes she spent time with her grandparents and with friends. I was not the only one to ever change her diapers. BUT she knew then, and knows now, if she wanted her Mom, I was there--I still do not believe octoMom will be able to pull that off. Partly due to the sheer size of her brood, but also the personality she seems to me to have when interviewed. She might be there.....or she might be off at the fertility clinic again, or granting an interview....while ignoring her kids, and overburdening her parents and society.

And finally act innocent of your comments if you must, but you were responding to me, and stated it was not my place to address the issues. This is just one of the several times you did this. Which is fine, as I did originally ask my questions of YOU. Like I said I did so because you seem to feel akin to this woman, altho for the life of me I still fail to see the connection.

__________________________________________

And as for the breakfast.....y'all got ripped off!!! Only 8 eggs? You should have gotten at least 14!!!!

I too wonder about the father/donor in this situation. OctoMom cannot keep her story straight for the interviews, and that alone makes me wonder what stories she used on him. I am not trying to make him innocent in this, but I would like to hear more from him. I wonder if he comes from a family that could help with the kids.

Kat

[Apples2 19]

OK...what the hell kind of screening process does this "baby factory" clinic have? It seems to me that I jumped through many more hoops to get my lap band than this woman did to be implanted. And I do know this....my band will get much better care in it's lifetime than those poor children will.

The answer is plain and simple..these children need nurturing and love on a one on one basis each and every day. Every child deserves at least that much.

I do not want to judge this woman just on looks or her actions during an interview. But, so difficult not to. Just seeing what I have of this person I would in no way want her in charge of one of my children.