Apologies

[GreenTealael 25,618]

12 minutes ago, elforman said:

That's one of several reasons, but absolutely that kind of attitude from the president has spread into public life. People who felt marginalized before, people like homophobes, bigots and white supremacists have clearly gotten more vocal over since Trump won the election, and that's compounded by the fact that Trump has done very little to distance himself from them. In fact, he says thinks like there are good people on both sides of a KKK rally, he uses phrases like "America First," a slogan used by American Nazis in the 1940s who sided with Germany and recently called reporter Chuck Todd, who is Jewish, "Sleepy Eyed," a derogatory term used by white supremacists to describe Jews. When people like that see that their words and behavior will go unchecked it emboldens them to get louder and louder.

Hmmm

Something to think about

[Healthy_life2 8,330]

9 minutes ago, elforman said:

That's one of several reasons, but absolutely that kind of attitude from the president has spread into public life. People who felt marginalized before, people like homophobes, bigots and white supremacists have clearly gotten more vocal over since Trump won the election, and that's compounded by the fact that Trump has done very little to distance himself from them. In fact, he says thinks like there are good people on both sides of a KKK rally, he uses phrases like "America First," a slogan used by American Nazis in the 1940s who sided with Germany and recently called reporter Chuck Todd, who is Jewish, "Sleepy Eyed," a derogatory term used by white supremacists to describe Jews. When people like that see that their words and behavior will go unchecked it emboldens them to get louder and louder.

Perfect example of freedom of speech above. People have the right to personal political opinion.

I may sit here and laugh a bit....Because the KKK has had and demonstrated freedom of speech before Trump was in office.

[Healthy_life2 8,330]

21 minutes ago, elforman said:

That's one of several reasons, but absolutely that kind of attitude from the president has spread into public life. People who felt marginalized before, people like homophobes, bigots and white supremacists have clearly gotten more vocal over since Trump won the election, and that's compounded by the fact that Trump has done very little to distance himself from them. In fact, he says thinks like there are good people on both sides of a KKK rally, he uses phrases like "America First," a slogan used by American Nazis in the 1940s who sided with Germany and recently called reporter Chuck Todd, who is Jewish, "Sleepy Eyed," a derogatory term used by white supremacists to describe Jews. When people like that see that their words and behavior will go unchecked it emboldens them to get louder and louder.

42 minutes ago, elforman said:

Trollish behavior has elevated in every facet of American life over the last year and a half. As much as I'd like to be able to leave politics out of it, just look at the troll in chief in the White House. Trump is by far the meanest, nastiest, crudest and most classless person ever to hold national office and much of the GOP is taking on the same demeanor.

Seriously, Trollish behavior has been around far longer - this is nothing new.

[Frustr8 7,886]

FYI I am and and probably,since birth a Republican. That said I am not and never will be a Trumpetarian, and I resent the hijacking of my political party by that loud foul-mouth orange faced bully, pprobably loath him more than the average Democrat for I lost more by his election than they did. And I don't want the world to think I condone him!😲

[GreenTealael 25,618]

7 minutes ago, jenn1 said:

Perfect example of freedom of speech above. People have the right to personal political opinion.

I may sit here and laugh a bit....Because the KKK has had and demonstrated freedom of speech before Trump was in office.

Something else to consider ...

[Healthy_life2 8,330]

2 hours ago, Tealael said:

Something else to consider ...

I don't believe suppressing opinion and speech online is necessary. Say whatever crazy ass things you want. All of us have the choice to turn off the computer or move on to another thread/forum...When it turns over into an actual crime......then things are different.

[elforman 234]

44 minutes ago, jenn1 said:

Perfect example of freedom of speech above. People have the right to personal political opinion.

I may sit here and laugh a bit....Because the KKK has had and demonstrated freedom of speech before Trump was in office.

The difference is that the incidents of hate-based racially motivated behavior has increased significantly since Trump took office. The SPLC (Southern Poverty Law Center) has all of the statistics.

It used to be that, like him or not, a President of the United States was looked upon to provide a high level of moral decency. What does it say when Trump can't even denounce Nazis marching in the United States? Or when a president calls his opponents childish nicknames or calls every unflattering news article about him "fake news" with no evidence to back his claims? He is directly responsible for lowering the level of discourse and civility in the country.

And yes, the KKK has always been around, but until Trump came along they'd scatter like roaches when they were brought into the light, now they stand proud, happy to have a bigger audience to spread their message of hate.

[Danny Paul 761]

Im an Independent voter who usually has no use for Democrats or Republicans but with our rigged two party system I have very little choices to vote for. That being said, when the poster,Elf made the point that Trump didnt denounce the Nazi group. It was spot on . Likewise I would have liked Oboma to denounce the Black Lives Matters group who expouse physical violence towards police officers. Instead he invited them to the White House. There must be a better way to get politicans to actually work for the people and not for special interests. We as Americans deserve much better than this rigged two party system. (This will be my only comment on this as I come to this board for health advice and not political discussion)

Not doing what's popular just doing what's Right.

[GreenTealael 25,618]

8 hours ago, Danny Paul said:

Im an Independent voter who usually has no use for Democrats or Republicans but with our rigged two party system I have very little choices to vote for. That being said, when the poster,Elf made the point that Trump didnt denounce the Nazi group. It was spot on . Likewise I would have liked Oboma to denounce the Black Lives Matters group who expouse physical violence towards police officers. Instead he invited them to the White House. There must be a better way to get politicans to actually work for the people and not for special interests. We as Americans deserve much better than this rigged two party system. (This will be my only comment on this as I come to this board for health advice and not political discussion)

Not doing what's popular just doing what's Right.

This post is not about politics at all..

[GreenTealael 25,618]

So i guess the better question is how to tell when the line has been crossed and how to fix it because online interactions are different than in person dealings

Also

I like to leave politics to the politicians ...

[sideeye 1,440]

I don't think there's been an upswing, but there have been advances in sophistication. There have always been dark corners of the internet, but they were somewhat cordoned off from the mainstream internet spaces. From what I've observed two things happened: 1. the Chans found a really good vector into mainstream (memes) and then used those same paths to start injecting culture-disrupting content into the rest of the internet, and 2. trolls fine-tuned their toolkit so they're now not just easily-identifiable jerks, they're also using deceptively mild personas to create chaos.

When we finally untangle the impact of Russia's troll factories and Cambridge Analytica on the 2016 election it's going to be proven as much more significant than the general population currently believe - this isn't a political statement, it's just acknowledgement of the pure skill of psychographic targeting and the way Russia was deploying its troll network. That didn't happen in a vacuum. While the Russians are a peak, state-organized example of how to effectively troll, they're behaviors that are exhibited by people invested in chaos or pushing a particular worldview all over the web. And one of the knock-on effects of the trolls getting REALLY GOOD is that their influence over non-trolls got a lot more traction, so now their messaging is getting spread in ever-increasing circles by people I'd probably describe as dupes. They heard a thing repeatedly, they didn't think analytically too much about it, they internalized the thing enough to make it something they now believe and will fight for. This is also how the Facebook ads worked.

I will say that Trump's style has had a strong impact on these trends. He broke down some of the barriers that governed what is acceptable in civil discourse online. It's a horrible acceleration, again aided by trolls: during the Obama admin, a lot of the toxic racist stuff that traditionally stayed on the fringe crept closer to the mainstream until people were boldly repeating it on Facebook, and then one of the main tweeters of that toxicity became president. Fast-track to legitimizing that sort of speech.

Edited April 30, 2018 by sideeye

[JosieK 120]

Hi everyone, I was banded 2007 and used this site for everything from suggestions for doctors to use to any issues I was having. Back then we didn’t have a lot to go on in terms of WLS connections, so this was invaluable.

I don’t come on regularly but I do try to drop in once in a while. It helps me to stay on track.

im not sure if this is true or just my perception ....but the site has changed....it seems like this site is a more supportive one. When I came in, it seemed like a battle ground in many ways. I was able to manuver my way around and stick with the winners. Poor Alex had a heck of a time 😂

‘It’s funny I happened upon this thread today....

I was just reading a post where the person had the lapband for years and started having trouble with it. They asked for advice on getting it out and if they should get new surgery.

one lady took the time to get on and tell her story. The original person went back on lecturing her. I thought,”Wait you ask for input, then you start lecturing the person that had a successful path for herself”. 🤔

generally i try to stick with telling my experience. Someone can’t refute that. And if they did.... it’s my experience.

‘Of course if I said something wrong, I would apologize immediately.

I agree these anonymous social media sites sometimes brings out the worst. This site has been fine for me. But get me on twitter.... and I am out of control sometimes. I’ve had to stop twitter because those are the things that made me eat out of control.

Have a blessed day

[GreenTealael 25,618]

Hi everyone, I was banded 2007 and used this site for everything from suggestions for doctors to use to any issues I was having. Back then we didn’t have a lot to go on in terms of WLS connections, so this was invaluable.
I don’t come on regularly but I do try to drop in once in a while. It helps me to stay on track.
im not sure if this is true or just my perception ....but the site has changed....it seems like this site is a more supportive one. When I came in, it seemed like a battle ground in many ways. I was able to manuver my way around and stick with the winners. Poor Alex had a heck of a time
‘It’s funny I happened upon this thread today....
I was just reading a post where the person had the lapband for years and started having trouble with it. They asked for advice on getting it out and if they should get new surgery.
one lady took the time to get on and tell her story. The original person went back on lecturing her. I thought,”Wait you ask for input, then you start lecturing the person that had a successful path for herself”.
generally i try to stick with telling my experience. Someone can’t refute that. And if they did.... it’s my experience.
‘Of course if I said something wrong, I would apologize immediately.
I agree these anonymous social media sites sometimes brings out the worst. This site has been fine for me. But get me on twitter.... and I am out of control sometimes. I’ve had to stop twitter because those are the things that made me eat out of control.
Have a blessed day

Interesting perspective
Glad to hear the site is more friendly now, and YES Twitter FB Instagram tumblr etc are all out of control I have to disable notifications so I don't have to see the wars brewing of seemingly innocuous conversations


HW 270
SW 238
CW 182
VSG 11/7

[GreenTealael 25,618]

I don't think there's been an upswing, but there have been advances in sophistication. There have always been dark corners of the internet, but they were somewhat cordoned off from the mainstream internet spaces. From what I've observed two things happened: 1. the Chans found a really good vector into mainstream (memes) and then used those same paths to start injecting culture-disrupting content into the rest of the internet, and 2. trolls fine-tuned their toolkit so they're now not just easily-identifiable jerks, they're also using deceptively mild personas to create chaos.
When we finally untangle the impact of Russia's troll factories and Cambridge Analytica on the 2016 election it's going to be proven as much more significant than the general population currently believe - this isn't a political statement, it's just acknowledgement of the pure skill of psychographic targeting and the way Russia was deploying its troll network. That didn't happen in a vacuum. While the Russians are a peak, state-organized example of how to effectively troll, they're behaviors that are exhibited by people invested in chaos or pushing a particular worldview all over the web. And one of the knock-on effects of the trolls getting REALLY GOOD is that their influence over non-trolls got a lot more traction, so now their messaging is getting spread in ever-increasing circles by people I'd probably describe as dupes. They heard a thing repeatedly, they didn't think analytically too much about it, they internalized the thing enough to make it something they now believe and will fight for. This is also how the Facebook ads worked.
I will say that Trump's style has had a strong impact on these trends. He broke down some of the barriers that governed what is acceptable in civil discourse online. It's a horrible acceleration, again aided by trolls: during the Obama admin, a lot of the toxic racist stuff that traditionally stayed on the fringe crept closer to the mainstream until people were boldly repeating it on Facebook, and then one of the main tweeters of that toxicity became president. Fast-track to legitimizing that sort of speech.

Interesting,
I never considered that people on this site could possible Russian trolls lol
But who knows how far down the rabbit hole goes...


HW 270
SW 238
CW 182
VSG 11/7

[FluffyChix 17,418]

LOL. That's me. You found me out. I'm an East German female shotputter. I'm strong like Russian bull--but it's hard to claim that properly cuz it sounds pretty racist and I don't want to offend other Russian trolls.