Calories In, Calories Out

[DropWt4Life 957]

My whole life, I've been told that losing weight is all about calories in, calories out. If you want to lose weight, you have to utilize more calories as energy than you consume. I whole heartedly agree with that statement. My problem is that I think people tend to take it at face value. When someone is naturally thin, I think there can be a disconnect from what overweight people might go through. I also think the CALORIES OUT part is relative. Some people have genetically been blessed with way better metabolisms than others.

For example, I got my best friend to agree to eat what I ate, and exercise with me for 3 weeks. A little background on my friend. He is 6'1', and 182 pounds. He didn't work out, never dieted his entire life, and would always state that he was thin because he ate badly in moderation only. He drank at least 2 sugary sodas or teas every day. He ate out at least every other day. He hated salads, and the only vegetable he could stand were peas and corn.

Anyway, he agreed to shadow me for 3 weeks. We ate out 2X weekly, but instead of eating double cheeseburgers and fries, we stuck to grilled chicken or fish with salad or veggies. We pretty much ate the same serving sizes as well. He had a hard time the first week, and admitted he snuck a soda a few times, and ate a donut once. He also exercised with me in the evenings 3X the first week (I also worked out 4X during my lunch break that week.)

All in all, he lost 6 pounds that first week. He got excited, and decided to continue. I lost 2 pounds. Skip forward to the end of the 3 week test. I lost 8 pounds, including a 1/2 inch on my waist. I was satisfied because my weight dropped from 319 pounds to 311 pounds. Well, I was Very SATISFIED until I saw my friend's results. He lost 14 pounds. His weight in fact dropped to 168. I knew he had lost a lot, because I could see it in his face.

He still maintains that it is calories in, calories out. He has gained back all of his lost weight. He probably eats a little over 1,000 calories more per day as he has resumed his regular diet. He has kept with the exercise routine though, so I guess something good came of it.

My question is....If it isn't just plain old genetics, how can a male maintain a 180 pound body over time on more than 3000 calories daily while another male struggles to get under 300 pounds on 2000 calories with a more active lifestyle? When I asked him the same question, he said that obviously I'm not eating 2000 calories, and must be eating a lot more.

Go figure.

[dreamingsmall 1,125]

36 minutes ago, DropWt4Life said:

My whole life, I've been told that losing weight is all about calories in, calories out. If you want to lose weight, you have to utilize more calories as energy than you consume. I whole heartedly agree with that statement. My problem is that I think people tend to take it at face value. When someone is naturally thin, I think there can be a disconnect from what overweight people might go through. I also think the CALORIES OUT part is relative. Some people have genetically been blessed with way better metabolisms than others.

For example, I got my best friend to agree to eat what I ate, and exercise with me for 3 weeks. A little background on my friend. He is 6'1', and 182 pounds. He didn't work out, never dieted his entire life, and would always state that he was thin because he ate badly in moderation only. He drank at least 2 sugary sodas or teas every day. He ate out at least every other day. He hated salads, and the only vegetable he could stand were peas and corn.

Anyway, he agreed to shadow me for 3 weeks. We ate out 2X weekly, but instead of eating double cheeseburgers and fries, we stuck to grilled chicken or fish with salad or veggies. We pretty much ate the same serving sizes as well. He had a hard time the first week, and admitted he snuck a soda a few times, and ate a donut once. He also exercised with me in the evenings 3X the first week (I also worked out 4X during my lunch break that week.)

All in all, he lost 6 pounds that first week. He got excited, and decided to continue. I lost 2 pounds. Skip forward to the end of the 3 week test. I lost 8 pounds, including a 1/2 inch on my waist. I was satisfied because my weight dropped from 319 pounds to 311 pounds. Well, I was Very SATISFIED until I saw my friend's results. He lost 14 pounds. His weight in fact dropped to 168. I knew he had lost a lot, because I could see it in his face.

He still maintains that it is calories in, calories out. He has gained back all of his lost weight. He probably eats a little over 1,000 calories more per day as he has resumed his regular diet. He has kept with the exercise routine though, so I guess something good came of it.

My question is....If it isn't just plain old genetics, how can a male maintain a 180 pound body over time on more than 3000 calories daily while another male struggles to get under 300 pounds on 2000 calories with a more active lifestyle? When I asked him the same question, he said that obviously I'm not eating 2000 calories, and must be eating a lot more.

Go figure.

So you got to 300lbs only eating 2000 calories a day? If you were not eaten more than 2000 cals a day at all why did you need the sleeve? I would agree that if you went the sleeve route, you must have been eating more than 2000 calories sometimes, as I did not think the sleeve is for people who are able to eat normal amounts, I dont know though, but i agree I have friends who can eat the earth and still be slim, I do not know how fatty their internal organs are though

[dreamingsmall 1,125]

I (personally) Do not know someone who eats 2000 calories and is 300lbs. Perhaps their may be other contributing factors, but I do find it intresting , I am sure there is a few out there perhaps, but maybe they have contributing issues? Medication? Health issues etc. I can see it may be possible with other factors.

[Introversion 1,876]

I'm not metabolically blessed in any shape, form or fashion. I've had a weight problem since middle childhood. The majority of the women on my mother's side of the family are overweight.

I also admit that I became obese because I overate.

I'm a hypothyroid, insulin-resistant female who now maintains a weight of 118 to 122 pounds on about 2000 to 2300 calories daily. Prior to the sleeve, I ate an estimated 3000+ calories a day.

So, yes, I agree that the "calories out" aspect of the equation is variable. Some people can get away with more food and poorer choices without suffering from the consequences.

A small handful of 300-pound people gain on 2000 calories a day, but it is rare. When the typical 300-pound person becomes a research study subject, the typical finding is he/she mistakenly underestimates caloric intake and has a higher metabolic rate than previously assumed:

https://gomaleo.wordpress.com/2013/11/13/calorie-underreporting/

https://gomaleo.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/metabolic-derangement-extreme-calorie-restriction-edition/

It takes a substantial amount of energy to get a 300-pound person through the day. His/her organs and musculature enlarge to rise to the occasion, resulting in an elevated metabolism.

[Sosewsue61 3,185]

Calorie is a unit of heat (or energy) a food or drink will provide. In actuality it is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of one gram of Water from zero to one degree centigrade - multiply by a thousand and you have a kilocalorie aka calorie.

Outside the body they can be accurately measured. But inside the body they are not measured directly. They are measured by inference - the only measurable data is the amount of oxygen the body uses, how much carbon dioxide is expended, changes in body temp, etc. It was only tested with the exact same diet - but not tested with varying food composition.

SO not all calories are created equal or equally used by every person. And yet this addage persists that ' calories in, calories out ' is the answer. There have been a couple researchers (England?) that debunked this.

What I can't believe is someone on a wls forum adhering to that?

[Sosewsue61 3,185]

http://www.caloriegate.com/calories-in-calories-out/11-experts-demolish-the-calories-in-calories-out-cico-model-of-obesity

[Introversion 1,876]

1 minute ago, Sosewsue61 said:

What I can't believe is someone on a wls forum adhering to that?

When people use apps such as MFP, Baritastic or AcalorieCounter.com to track caloric intake, it could be said they're believers in the 'calories in/calories out' principle.

Since a considerable number of people on WLS forums use these calorie-counting apps, it could be inferred that they adhere to this train of thought.

I don't track, measure or count calories. Tracking and calorie-counting is a reminder of the dieters' mentality. Humans are the only members of the animal kingdom who track intake.

I maintain a lowish body weight by focusing on real, unprocessed food 70+ percent of the time. It's impossible to overeat broccoli or steak. It's easy to overeat crackers and donuts.

[DropWt4Life 957]

1 hour ago, dreamingsmall said:

So you got to 300lbs only eating 2000 calories a day? If you were not eaten more than 2000 cals a day at all why did you need the sleeve? I would agree that if you went the sleeve route, you must have been eating more than 2000 calories sometimes, as I did not think the sleeve is for people who are able to eat normal amounts, I dont know though, but i agree I have friends who can eat the earth and still be slim, I do not know how fatty their internal organs are though

I never said that I ate under 2000 calories my entire life to get to 300 pounds. What I said is that living at around or under 2000 calories per day, I have struggled to get under 300 pounds even though I have been very active. I do know that my metabolism is severely screwed because of yo-yo dieting my entire life. After getting to that set point, it has been next to impossible for me to get below and stay below that....Until now, but I am existing on 600-700 calories as well.

[DropWt4Life 957]

48 minutes ago, Introversion said:

When people use apps such as MFP, Baritastic or AcalorieCounter.com to track caloric intake, it could be said they're believers in the 'calories in/calories out' principle.

Since a considerable number of people on WLS forums use these calorie-counting apps, it could be inferred that they adhere to this train of thought.

I don't track, measure or count calories. Tracking and calorie-counting is a reminder of the dieters' mentality. Humans are the only members of the animal kingdom who track intake.

I maintain a lowish body weight by focusing on real, unprocessed food 70+ percent of the time. It's impossible to overeat broccoli or steak. It's easy to overeat crackers and donuts.

I agree with you 100%. I have always measured and tracked my entire adult life since that was what I was always told to do. I still track and measure even though that mentality may have lead to my struggle with weight in the first place. Thanks for your input.

[DropWt4Life 957]

1 hour ago, Sosewsue61 said:

Calorie is a unit of heat (or energy) a food or drink will provide. In actuality it is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of one gram of Water from zero to one degree centigrade - multiply by a thousand and you have a kilocalorie aka calorie.

Outside the body they can be accurately measured. But inside the body they are not measured directly. They are measured by inference - the only measurable data is the amount of oxygen the body uses, how much carbon dioxide is expended, changes in body temp, etc. It was only tested with the exact same diet - but not tested with varying food composition.

SO not all calories are created equal or equally used by every person. And yet this addage persists that ' calories in, calories out ' is the answer. There have been a couple researchers (England?) that debunked this.

What I can't believe is someone on a wls forum adhering to that?

Sosewsue61, thanks for you insight. Are you saying that you can't believe that someone on a wls forum could be adhering to calories in/calories out? So are we all just overweight because we don't diet, count calories and fat, don't exercise? I am confused by that statement. Please expand on that if you don't mind.

[Sosewsue61 3,185]

Sorry for the confusion - what I was alluding to was that comments were made by another poster that IF someone was ONLY eating 2000 calories/day that they would NOT be 300 lbs and would not need the sleeve - thus buying into the 'calories in, calories out' dogma. I was debunking that because many suffering from obesity have impaired an metabolism and it is not a matter of calorie consumption, but what the content of those calories are and utilization by the person's biology.

[dreamingsmall 1,125]

1 hour ago, DropWt4Life said:

I never said that I ate under 2000 calories my entire life to get to 300 pounds. What I said is that living at around or under 2000 calories per day, I have struggled to get under 300 pounds even though I have been very active. I do know that my metabolism is severely screwed because of yo-yo dieting my entire life. After getting to that set point, it has been next to impossible for me to get below and stay below that....Until now, but I am existing on 600-700 calories as well.

Ahh I understand now Thanks for explaining. I mis understood, I do know people who say they are eating 1000 calories and are Morbidly Obese, and they say they have no contributing factors like health or medication, so I find things like that intresting, i have no idea about the science behind it , I am fat because I ate too much. I can blame a small dot on genetics. But mainly I like food , so dont know the science

[dreamingsmall 1,125]

4 minutes ago, Sosewsue61 said:

Sorry for the confusion - what I was alluding to was that comments were made by another poster that IF someone was ONLY eating 2000 calories/day that they would NOT be 300 lbs and would not need the sleeve - thus buying into the 'calories in, calories out' dogma. I was debunking that because many suffering from obesity have impaired an metabolism and it is not a matter of calorie consumption, but what the content of those calories are and utilization by the person's biology.

Lol think you were replying to me I didnt even read your reply as i did not know you were talking to me but lol I was not buying into anything lol so you can relax. He already said that he was not saying he was eating 2000 cals to get to 300, so what are you saying lol. I did not say they would not be 300lbs i said I DONT KNOW ANYONE who is 300 lbs eating that amount lol you confused? My point was if someone is managing eating a normal amount then they would not need the sleeve to help with Portion Control, he has explained what he meant. I stick by what I said though, as I see many people before they want to take responsibility lol including myself in the past who would claim they are eating air and still obese but yet are getting the sleeve, I remember someone who said they only eat 400cals a day and are gaining ( no contributing health or med factors) so people did ask what the sleeve will do if they are honestly only eating that, they eventually admited they were eating more .

Edited September 13, 2017 by dreamingsmall

[AZLoser 103]

Wow so much prejudice and hostility on this topic! In this case, size matters. Lot of folks, including myself, can gain weight eating 2000 calories/day. You can have your metabolic rate measured. When I was 65 lbs heavier my rate was 1900/day. So 2000 was a slow gain. Now my rate is 1350. So 1200 calories/ day is barely losing. If you're a super active, larger framed, man, you might be able to eat 2,300/day and maintain. It's just not accurate that everyone who is overweight has been downing cheeseburgers and fries uncontrollably.

[Introversion 1,876]

49 minutes ago, AZLoser said:

If you're a super active, larger framed, man, you might be able to eat 2,300/day and maintain.

I'm actually a small-framed, 118-pound female who maintains on 2300 kcals daily.

My RMR was tested and found to be 1430 at rest. With daily non-exercise movement and some moderate activity, I was estimated to be burning slightly less than 2100 kcals a day.

However, I find I can maintain in the 2000 to 2300 kcal range.