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ELENATION

By ELENATION, in Rants & Raves

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WASaBubbleButt    41

WASaBubbleButt
Posted

I agree with you 100% with everything....and it takes a lot more faith for me to believe that the earth created itself.....most definitely. I loved your response/post.... very informational, just great. thank you.

It takes a lot more than faith for me to believe that a god always has been or that he created himself.

This is a concept that theists don't get about atheists. They have no problem not understanding the big bang theory, they cannot comprehend the possibility of the scientific issues involved, yet they have no problem believing a god has always been around and created the world in seven days.

You don't know how the earth created itself and I don't know how a god created himself. See the issue?

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anonemouse    1

anonemouse
Posted

It takes a lot more than faith for me to believe that a god always has been or that he created himself.

This is a concept that theists don't get about atheists. They have no problem not understanding the big bang theory, they cannot comprehend the possibility of the scientific issues involved, yet they have no problem believing a god has always been around and created the world in seven days.

You don't know how the earth created itself and I don't know how a god created himself. See the issue?

You mean that atheists don't get about theists, right?

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WASaBubbleButt    41

WASaBubbleButt
Posted

Unlike many other Atheists, I don't doubt that Jesus existed. I just doubt that he was who he said he was or that he could do the things he said he could. I personally feel that he was like any other cult leader.

There were plenty of writers around at the time yet nobody wrote of him.

If there was a Christ person why didn't anyone write of the HUGE things he did? Why didn't he write it himself? I'm not so sure Christ claimed he was any of the things people give him credit for. I think people decided to label him and now we have Christianity.

I mean, Christianity is not exactly a new concept. It's borrowed and stolen from previous myths from Egypt and Hindus. Virgin birth? Old. Walking on Water? Reused. Savior? Borrowed. Feeding the whole lot with a fish? Stolen. Those are all stories from previous myths. Myths that are MUCH older than Christianity.

What evidence is there that leads you to believe he existed anymore than the others in his position from previous myths?

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ELENATION    0

ELENATION
Posted

For me and me alone, faith isn't something to have pride in.

I don't even have faith that a god of any sort exists so I would still be a liar. But according to some within Christianity the dishonesty and pretending to have faith is better than honesty.

well, I understand that...but like you said, according to "some"........ I'd like to believe that most Christians are not pretending to have faith...what would be the point? hey, I'm sure there are some out there, but a Christian should know that GOd knows your heart and pretending would be lying to yourself..., I mean what is there to gain to pretend that one has faith then? to appear as a "nice" person in front of the world? maybe because someone may think that if people think that I'm a believer I may be a better person? I guess some people may do that, I personally think it's silly....again, it's like lying to myself.......

I'd also like to think that I don't take "pride" in having faith, I talk about it here in rants because I enjoy the debates, they are darn interesting, I may talk about it with a fellow Christian, but I don't go around thinking or acting as very proud of having faith... I just happen to have faith, I don't know exactly why I have it....and I didn't always have it.... so it's not a matter of pride at least for me....

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anonemouse    1

anonemouse
Posted

There were plenty of writers around at the time yet nobody wrote of him.

If there was a Christ person why didn't anyone write of the HUGE things he did? Why didn't he write it himself? I'm not so sure Christ claimed he was any of the things people give him credit for. I think people decided to label him and now we have Christianity.

I mean, Christianity is not exactly a new concept. It's borrowed and stolen from previous myths from Egypt and Hindus. Virgin birth? Old. Walking on Water? Reused. Savior? Borrowed. Feeding the whole lot with a fish? Stolen. Those are all stories from previous myths. Myths that are MUCH older than Christianity.

What evidence is there that leads you to believe he existed anymore than the others in his position from previous myths?

You've got a very good point. I dunno, I guess I just think of him as a generic cult leader. You know, the kind that sort-of inflate their abilities, or the people around them inflate their abilities.

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anonemouse    1

anonemouse
Posted

well, I understand that...but like you said, according to "some"........ I'd like to believe that most Christians are not pretending to have faith...what would be the point? hey, I'm sure there are some out there, but a Christian should know that GOd knows your heart and pretending would be lying to yourself..., I mean what is there to gain to pretend that one has faith then? to appear as a "nice" person in front of the world? maybe because someone may think that if people think that I'm a believer I may be a better person? I guess some people may do that, I personally think it's silly....again, it's like lying to myself.......

I'd also like to think that I don't take "pride" in having faith, I talk about it here in rants because I enjoy the debates, they are darn interesting, I may talk about it with a fellow Christian, but I don't go around thinking or acting as very proud of having faith... I just happen to have faith, I don't know exactly why I have it....and I didn't always have it.... so it's not a matter of pride at least for me....

I'm sure they have faith. I'm just not sure what's good about faith. I mean, if you have to have faith in something, it's because you don't have evidence. If you have evidence, you don't need faith. At least, that's how I look at it.

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ELENATION    0

ELENATION
Posted

It takes a lot more than faith for me to believe that a god always has been or that he created himself.

This is a concept that theists don't get about atheists. They have no problem not understanding the big bang theory, they cannot comprehend the possibility of the scientific issues involved, yet they have no problem believing a god has always been around and created the world in seven days.

You don't know how the earth created itself and I don't know how a god created himself. See the issue?

Definitely, I see it... and I do see the possibility of scientific issues being involved, I'm not convinced though, and I don't have that much faith in it either, I have more faith in God... so it all comes down to what some believe and what others don't, etc... like you said.....

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WASaBubbleButt    41

WASaBubbleButt
Posted

well, I understand that...but like you said, according to "some"........ I'd like to believe that most Christians are not pretending to have faith...what would be the point? hey, I'm sure there are some out there, but a Christian should know that GOd knows your heart and pretending would be lying to yourself..., I mean what is there to gain to pretend that one has faith then? to appear as a "nice" person in front of the world? maybe because someone may think that if people think that I'm a believer I may be a better person? I guess some people may do that, I personally think it's silly....again, it's like lying to myself.......

I'd also like to think that I don't take "pride" in having faith, I talk about it here in rants because I enjoy the debates, they are darn interesting, I may talk about it with a fellow Christian, but I don't go around thinking or acting as very proud of having faith... I just happen to have faith, I don't know exactly why I have it....and I didn't always have it.... so it's not a matter of pride at least for me....

Please note, I did preface my comment that it was for me and me alone.

I wouldn't base real time issues on that kind of faith. People don't buy stocks with that kind of faith. They don't choose schools for their children on that kind of faith. They don't hire babysitters on that kind of faith. Things that have actual consequences people tend to use critical thinking skills and objective data. That's why for me I wouldn't feel any pride in having that type of faith.

And I quite agree with you, pretending to have faith would be pointless. But it still comes down to not being a choice. If I say I have faith, I really don't so that would be a lie. Faith and belief is not a choice. If I claimed I had either I'd be a liar.

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WASaBubbleButt    41

WASaBubbleButt
Posted

You've got a very good point. I dunno, I guess I just think of him as a generic cult leader. You know, the kind that sort-of inflate their abilities, or the people around them inflate their abilities.

I don't know if he existed or not, there isn't a shred of proof existing one way or another. But if he did exist I can't believe he was a cult leader of any sort or some historian would have written about him at the time he lived. Nobody did.

At the time Christianity came to be they needed a way to control the masses and fear is how they did it. There is a reason only priests knew how to read at that time. It was a wonderful control method. Go out and convert the masses or else. They didn't necessarily share the rest of the bible with people so many came to believe out of fear, or Pascal's Wager. Many still believe due to Pascal's Wager.

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WASaBubbleButt    41

WASaBubbleButt
Posted

Definitely, I see it... and I do see the possibility of scientific issues being involved, I'm not convinced though, and I don't have that much faith in it either, I have more faith in God... so it all comes down to what some believe and what others don't, etc... like you said.....

Actually, what I wrote was that faith and belief are not necessarily choice. :Banane30:

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WASaBubbleButt    41

WASaBubbleButt
Posted

See I'm a scientist. I don't have "faith" in science. I know science works. I have evidence. I don't need faith.

Agreed. If one has facts they don't need faith. That's my big problem with faith. I want the facts.

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