Just spent an hour of my life I'll never get back reading in the Pre-/Post-Op Sleeve forums and I'm amazed by what people will still, even as they're undertaking MAJOR SURGERY, say to justify their behavior.

There are people about to have most of their stomach removed who say "I don't have a problem with food". Say what?? I'm pretty sure the Fat Fairy didn't put all this weight on any of us, right? "I couldn't stop myself". Yes, you could have...you DIDN'T. "Everyone does it". No, they don't. YOU did.

As I'm typing this out, it's clear that I'm fed up with the lack of ownership of behavior. It's odd to watch fat people trying to float the same justifications here that they've used for years with other people. Walking into a group of fat people and saying "I don't have a problem with food" is pretty ridiculous...that dog just won't hunt here. If you can't be honest with yourself and a group of people much like yourself, how can you succeed with WLS? The non-ownership of our own actions and capabilities is what got many (most?) of us to where we are and it kills me that there are people STILL wallowing in the 'I don't control myself' pool who are getting WLS. What a waste.

The thing is it is not anyone's place to judge other people. Lots of anger here. Its really none of your business unless you are asked for advice. Because speaking of honesty I do not believe half the people when they say they do not cheat or mess up and brag about how perfect they are. Lies. 60% of people mess up because we are human and we have issues with food. And every site i have read says do not become obsessive with never having a grain of sugar or you will burn out and regain. Stop pushing your agenda on other people. If they fail it is on them. If they ask for your help go ahead. This new America where everyone attacks everyone else and talks about how perfect they are makes me sick. Positive encouragement is all you can do. I have been only able to eat very small calories and havnt lost weight yet as I am two weeks out. I have to believe in the system. But people have no idea why other people get the surgery. Worry about your own self! This mean kid online mentality is cowardly and ridiculous.

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

What the hell are you talking about? 60% of people mess up? Did you pull that number out of your bottom?

Stop projecting. Whether people have sugar or choose to live their lives without sugar, it's ultimately about what works for THEM. Stop telling people that they are LYING if they choose a plan that works for them? I know a woman who had a bypass 15 years ago who has not had one peice of candy, cake, or anything like that because she knows if she does, she will spiral out of control. It's what works for HER, especially since she's kept the weight off for 15 years. Who am I to argue with her?

I suggest you get a bit further along than a couple of weeks post op to find what works for you before you start accusing people of living a lie.

@@LipstickLady Done with you..... You have to know what kind of person you are when your tag line says.... If you think I suck as a person, click on my profile and then click BLOCK. You won't see my posts. No hard feelings.

@@ShelterDog64 Again Sorry for all this... I've tried to have her let it go, but i guess for some ... it's not possible.

Thank you for proving my point.

I don't really like to be cuddled. The sex has to be really good for me to be into it.

I don't really like to be cuddled. The sex has to be really good for me to be into it.

Haha!!!

I don't really like to be cuddled. The sex has to be really good for me to be into it.

THIS!!! thisthisthisthisthis

I don't really like to be cuddled. The sex has to be really good for me to be into it.

THIS!!! thisthisthisthisthis

And don't give me any CARP about it, @@higher !!!

So.. "Rants and raves".. THIS is were the sane post WLS people hang out!

I guess the "in" is silent (and invisible) before sane.

The thing is it is not anyone's place to judge other people. Lots of anger here. Its really none of your business unless you are asked for advice. Because speaking of honesty I do not believe half the people when they say they do not cheat or mess up and brag about how perfect they are. Lies. 60% of people mess up because we are human and we have issues with food. And every site i have read says do not become obsessive with never having a grain of sugar or you will burn out and regain. Stop pushing your agenda on other people. If they fail it is on them. If they ask for your help go ahead. This new America where everyone attacks everyone else and talks about how perfect they are makes me sick. Positive encouragement is all you can do. I have been only able to eat very small calories and havnt lost weight yet as I am two weeks out. I have to believe in the system. But people have no idea why other people get the surgery. Worry about your own self! This mean kid online mentality is cowardly and ridiculous.

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

What the hell are you talking about? 60% of people mess up? Did you pull that number out of your bottom?

Stop projecting. Whether people have sugar or choose to live their lives without sugar, it's ultimately about what works for THEM. Stop telling people that they are LYING if they choose a plan that works for them? I know a woman who had a bypass 15 years ago who has not had one peice of candy, cake, or anything like that because she knows if she does, she will spiral out of control. It's what works for HER, especially since she's kept the weight off for 15 years. Who am I to argue with her?

I suggest you get a bit further along than a couple of weeks post op to find what works for you before you start accusing people of living a lie.

Yeah I asked where the 60% came from too and got crickets.

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

I agree with those who have no interest in others condemnation, most people in here probably know when they mess up and are just looking to vent their own frustrations often without seeking comment or judgement. But all I can say is their must be alot of perfect people in by the crap they talk.

Sent from my SM-G900I using the BariatricPal App

It's all good...I sometimes feeling like saying the same, I just thought it was kind of a funny contrast from the rest of your post. I wish there was a better way to convey tone than the ridiculous emoji selection here!

I have to admit it was a provocation. Why did I do it?

It irks me quite a bit that whenever someone (including me) is bothered by the tone or choice of words on this board they get a "it's Rants & Raves!!" - Hey, you yourself told me that I lost sight of where we are right now!

There is name calling like bitch, idiot etc. and that doesn't cause a shitstorm - but when someone says the F-word, OMG!!!!!!1 it's so evil!!!!!1 - WTH?

So tell me: where is that line that is not supposed to be crossed?? At the moment it seems to be dependent on the user where that line is. Double standards at their best.

The best would be to stay out of anything controversial - however, things get nasty pretty quick on these boards, depending on who's involved. Sadly, this is one of the most active WLS boards on the web, otherwise I wouldn't bother with this kind of discussion - I simply would stay away.

It's all good...I sometimes feeling like saying the same, I just thought it was kind of a funny contrast from the rest of your post. I wish there was a better way to convey tone than the ridiculous emoji selection here!

I have to admit it was a provocation. Why did I do it?

It irks me quite a bit that whenever someone (including me) is bothered by the tone or choice of words on this board they get a "it's Rants & Raves!!" - Hey, you yourself told me that I lost sight of where we are right now!

There is name calling like b***h, idiot etc. and that doesn't cause a shitstorm - but when someone says the F-word, OMG!!!!!!1 it's so evil!!!!!1 - WTH?

So tell me: where is that line that is not supposed to be crossed?? At the moment it seems to be dependent on the user where that line is. Double standards at their best.

The best would be to stay out of anything controversial - however, things get nasty pretty quick on these boards, depending on who's involved. Sadly, this is one of the most active WLS boards on the web, otherwise I wouldn't bother with this kind of discussion - I simply would stay away.

I absolutely take issue with name calling from ANY side of an argument and have no problem saying so. The F word is, quite frankly, one of my favorite words and I use it regularly. I just don't use it AT someone on the internet because it invalidates any points one is making and, in my opinion, speaks volumes about their character.

This is a common scenario on these boards that often gets confused with name calling where name calling didn't exist:

User A: I ate a taco at three days out and it hurt.

User B: That was a really bad idea. Have you spoken with your surgeon?

User A: DON'T JUDGE ME! We are all human and make mistakes.

User C: HEAR WE GO AGAIN! THE "PERFECT" PEOPLE COMING OUT CALLING PEOPLE IDIOTS!!

User A: I am so tired of these people calling me name around here. I am NEVER posting again.

User C: This board is supposed to be about support and I am sick of this behavior.

User A: @UserB You are such a b*tch!! Don't tell me what to do!! You ain't perfect.

User C: @UserB How dare you be so judgmental!!! You probably ate tacos at two days out and just won't admit it.

User D: IGNORE THE BULLIES!! They come on to every thread and act like they are SO perfect. They forgot where they came from. They should be supportive but instead they act all high and mighty calling people stupid and idiots. They should really leave.

and on and on and on....

There was no name calling by user B. But User A and User C twisted his/her words into something they totally weren't. I'd suggest everyone refer to @@Hammer_Down 's awesome thread:

http://www.bariatricpal.com/topic/382538-lets-all-brush-up-on-our-critical-thinking-skills/

There is a member who is continually calling people a b****. It's honestly not cool at all. I've gotten a lot of help from said "meanies" - personally, I appreciate their knowledge and willingness to share experiences. My opinion - if you don't like a thread or post, just move along.

So in conclusion - thank you to the "meanies" I've learned a lot from you.

Thanks for the shoutout, @LipstickLady.

I see the conversation you artfully re-created happening almost every day here.

I do wonder if it's a statement about our society in general that any and all criticism is construed as a knife-in-the-back, all out call to arms.

We all make mistakes, (diet related or otherwise) and we will surely continue to do so as long as we continue to breathe. It's a part of life, there's always something we could have done better. How did these kinds of people cope with getting a B- in school? A less than perfect review at their employment? A speeding or parking ticket?

It's all good...I sometimes feeling like saying the same, I just thought it was kind of a funny contrast from the rest of your post. I wish there was a better way to convey tone than the ridiculous emoji selection here!

I have to admit it was a provocation. Why did I do it?

It irks me quite a bit that whenever someone (including me) is bothered by the tone or choice of words on this board they get a "it's Rants & Raves!!" - Hey, you yourself told me that I lost sight of where we are right now!

There is name calling like b***h, idiot etc. and that doesn't cause a shitstorm - but when someone says the F-word, OMG!!!!!!1 it's so evil!!!!!1 - WTH?

So tell me: where is that line that is not supposed to be crossed?? At the moment it seems to be dependent on the user where that line is. Double standards at their best.

The best would be to stay out of anything controversial - however, things get nasty pretty quick on these boards, depending on who's involved. Sadly, this is one of the most active WLS boards on the web, otherwise I wouldn't bother with this kind of discussion - I simply would stay away.

Again, I only commented about you calling for civility in the same post that you told people to "fuck off". It was the conflict between those two things that I was speaking to, not the word. And I was trying to be sort of funny about it but didn't convey that well, thus my comment about tone.

I don't care about the words, honestly, as long as it's not used to call names or attack a particular person, for example 'all of the people out there who don't like bacon can fuck off' is different than 'ShelterDog, you can fuck off'.

I can swear more creatively and better than most Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen AND Marines, but I seldom direct it to a particular person. For ME, that's where the 'line' is. At the end of the day, we can use those words in any way we choose, but there's one person here who truly defines where the 'line' is for the site and that's @AlexBrecher .

Thanks for the shoutout, @LipstickLady.

I see the conversation you artfully re-created happening almost every day here.

I do wonder if it's a statement about our society in general that any and all criticism is construed as a knife-in-the-back, all out call to arms.

We all make mistakes, (diet related or otherwise) and we will surely continue to do so as long as we continue to breathe. It's a part of life, there's always something we could have done better. How did these kinds of people cope with getting a B- in school? A less than perfect review at their employment? A speeding or parking ticket?

Many people have been coddled all the way through life...a B- was fine, because the teacher just wasn't fair, neither is their boss. And you know, the police target red cars. This brings this conversation full circle (and I could kiss you for it!!)...taking responsibility for their actions is something many people have a terrible time doing. I see it here EVERY day, in posts about "I couldn't stop myself" and "I can't help it, I'm only human". Be accountable for your own actions, take ownership of your behavior...we're all better people when we do.