The God Question...

[Carlene 12]

A wonderful, civil, intelligent discussion between a well-known minister/author (The Purpose Driven Life) and a PhD student in neuroscience, also an author, on the existence of God.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17889148/site/newsweek/?gt1=9246

[anonemouse 1]

Very good debate. I especially like Warren's last statement, because it is something that just about every Christian says at one time or another when discussing Atheism versus Christianity, and I think it highlights exactly what one of the major components of Christianity is that Atheists disagree with.

Rick, last thoughts?

WARREN: I believe in both faith and reason. The more we learn about God, the more we understand how magnificent this universe is. There is no contradiction to it. When I look at history, I would disagree with Sam: Christianity has done far more good than bad. Altruism comes out of knowing there is more than this life, that there is a sovereign God, that I am not God. We're both betting. He's betting his life that he's right. I'm betting my life that Jesus was not a liar. When we die, if he's right, I've lost nothing. If I'm right, he's lost everything. I'm not willing to make that gamble.

To me, that just states that he believes in Christ because he's afraid of what will happen to him if he doesn't. That isn't a good reason to believe, and it isn't a good argument for others to believe in Christ. He's believing out of cowardice, essentially, IMO.

And to me, true altruism comes out of knowing that you aren't getting anything in return for what you are doing. If you are doing a good deed because you think it will help get you into Heaven, you aren't truly altruistic. You are basically paying your way into Heaven.

[396power 2]

Very good debate. I especially like Warren's last statement, because it is something that just about every Christian says at one time or another when discussing Atheism versus Christianity, and I think it highlights exactly what one of the major components of Christianity is that Atheists disagree with.

To me, that just states that he believes in Christ because he's afraid of what will happen to him if he doesn't. That isn't a good reason to believe, and it isn't a good argument for others to believe in Christ. He's believing out of cowardice, essentially, IMO.

And to me, true altruism comes out of knowing that you aren't getting anything in return for what you are doing. If you are doing a good deed because you think it will help get you into Heaven, you aren't truly altruistic. You are basically paying your way into Heaven.

I'm a Christian and. I think your right that is not a good reason to belive. I don't want to be wrong in what I belive. And it is not important for me to be right. But it is very important for me to worship the one true GOD!

[Sunta 5]

Carlene, thanks for posting this. I can't wait to read it when I have a chance to really pay attention to the article.

One thing that makes me crazy about the "God debate" is that somehow, it always has to be about Jesus. What about a higher power that exists but that did not send a human counterpart to earth? Christians always think because I don't believe in Jesus that I don't believe in "God", but in fact I do believe in some form of higher energy than ourselves (but that also resides within us.)

I was at a Catholic funeral last week and it struck me that I totally understand that organized religion is a way to humanize and explain that which we don't understand. I understand that need and drive, but I wish that every discussion about "God" didn't have to be "Jesus or nothing".

[anonemouse 1]

Christians always think because I don't believe in Jesus that I don't believe in "God", but in fact I do believe in some form of higher energy than ourselves (but that also resides within us.)

We're a lot alike, but I believe the exact opposite of you. I believe that Jesus existed, but I don't believe in God. I think that Jesus was a regular man with great charisma, much like modern cult leaders are today.

[Sunta 5]

I believe that Jesus existed, but I don't believe in God. I think that Jesus was a regular man with great charisma, much like modern cult leaders are today.

I definitely don't discount this possibility, and it's an interesting theory. The reason I'm not 100% convinced he existed is because the only written proof is the bible and/or ancient historians who refer to the bible or to Christianity. Since there is no written proof by any non-Christian historians of the day (I believe there are four exceptions to this, two of which were proven to be forged, and two which are disputed.), I can't say he definitely existed.

Why are the majority of ancient historians silent about Jesus?

It's clear to me that the bible is a book, like any other fictional book. It would be like citing Star Wars as proof of the existance of Luke Skywalker. And whenever anyone questions it, believers would say "we know it's true because it says it in the Star Wars Trilogy!"

Now, perhaps the bible could have been based on a real person, but I would like to see some written proof of this besides Josephus' passage which is widely believed to be forged.

I would like an explanation of the long list of historians of that time who do not mention Jesus.