Stop having so many damn kids; population control, anyone?

[Wheetsin 714]

And the mental picture non-Christians have of Christians remains the one built by the files deposited into their brains from the negative news stories, tv shows, and movies.

...or by their own experiences, or by people they know - not strangers they exchange typing with on a message board - but people they know, or through their own readings of the bible and the qualities it would (Should? Is meant to? Fill in your blank of choice here) inspire in its faithful audience, or through their own experiences in/with a church, or through life events that have somehow impacted their faith or lack of, or...

Isn't saying "the non-christians' model of christians is formed by mass media" (paraphrasing) the same thing as saying "christians are hypocrites", in the sense of letting a few define the larger whole?

[skyeblu79 0]

Not necessarily. Think of it this way: Most citizens in this country are Christians. That's a fact. Many Americans may not be able to say that they personally know a Muslim or a Jew, but they can say they know a Christian. For me, I believe most of the news' portrayal of Christians because it is what I personally see almost every day. I know many Christians are good people (although, I don't see most "missionary work" as being something to be proud of), but I still see Christians every day that are mean, bigoted, and disgraceful human beings.

What's your point? Let me replace what you said what some other stuff...

I know many whites are good people (although, I don't see most "missionary work" as being something to be proud of), but I still see white every day that are mean, bigoted, and disgraceful human beings.

I know many asians are good people (although, I don't see most "missionary work" as being something to be proud of), but I still see asians every day that are mean, bigoted, and disgraceful human beings.

I know many muslims are good people (although, I don't see most "missionary work" as being something to be proud of), but I still see muslims every day that are mean, bigoted, and disgraceful human beings.

I know many gays are good people (although, I don't see most "missionary work" as being something to be proud of), but I still see gays every day that are mean, bigoted, and disgraceful human beings.

Do you not see what you are doing? Sounds like a bunch of stereotyping and prejudging.

I know many blacks are good people (although, I don't see most "missionary work" as being something to be proud of), but I still see blacks every day that are mean, bigoted, and disgraceful human beings.

And I think they majority of people in this country do know Muslims and Jews. Just @ work alone I can name Muslims, Jews, and many other groups. A lot of people don't allow themselves to get to know other people. Sure there are some towns and areas that are segregated, but come on..

Why don't you think missionary work is something to be proud of?

[dotofoz 0]

Why don't you think missionary work is something to be proud of?

Aside from the conversion issue, isn't another basis for missionary work to actully HELP and advance the people and make their lives better? Did I miss something?

[anonemouse 1]

Missionary work itself is not bad, I guess. Helping people is always great. I guess it is the classical definition of missionary work that I disagree with. You know, helping people but demanding that they convert in order to receive that help. I just really dislike it when people put demands on their help and try to convert the people that they are helping. I feel very strongly that people should not do that. I am extremely anti-evangelism. My example was my aunt and uncle in Nashville that help run a homeless shelter. You shouldn't say, "I'll help you because you are a Christian or because you are willing to sacrifice your own religion for food and a place to sleep. I won't help you because you feel that you would be betraying yourself if you sacrifice your spirituality for a meal." To me, that is everything that a Christian shouldn't be.

[anonemouse 1]

A lot of people don't allow themselves to get to know other people.

And a lot of us live in small towns in the Bible Belt. I literally knew only one (one!) Jewish family when I was growing up. To my knowledge, I don't believe I have met anyone that is a practicing Jew since that time, or at least, no one that talked about being Jewish. The thing about smaller universities in the south is that the majority of the people they attract are generally Christians, mainly because the majority of the people in the south are Christians.

Do you not see what you are doing? Sounds like a bunch of stereotyping and prejudging.

How? I didn't say that all Christians were bigoted. In fact, I specifically said that many are good people. I think anyone who has a brain knows that there are good Christians. But there are also bad ones. How was my statement stereotyping and prejudging? I never said that being a Christian is what made people bad, just that there are bad Christians. I see them everyday. You know, the people that use their religion as an excuse for bigotry and hatred, the ones that call people fags, camel jockeys, and rag-heads.

Believing many news reports about Christians isn't stereotyping and prejudging. I know that many Christians aren't horrible human beings. But there are some out there that are. And I have been around a lot of people that use their Christianity as a way to discriminate (advertising their business as a Christian workplace in help wanted ads, etc.), so while I don't think that all Christians are bad people, I also don't doubt the news reports on the ones that are.

This statement will probably get me attacked, but I am going to say it anyway. I personally think that a lot of Christians (not talking about anyone on this board) need to stop whining and take their medicine. We never heard a whole lot out of them in general when it was other religions taking the brunt of the criticism, but now that it is Christianity getting the evil eye, being criticized, and having jokes made about it, look out! They wouldn't have said a peep to the news agencies when the stories about the black muslim terrorist group came out (why were they identified as black and muslim instead of just terrorists?), but as soon as someone says something not so wonderful about a group of Christians, they are up in arms.

[Sunta 4]

Do you not see what you are doing? Sounds like a bunch of stereotyping and prejudging.

It's not stereotyping, because it's true. Instead of replacing the word "Christian" with types of races, try replacing it with "Members of the KKK" or "terrorists". Then it makes sense. The reason some (not all) Christians are mean, bigoted, and disgraceful human beings is because they DO discriminate against others, are bigoted, and are disgracful. They treat Gays with hatred and disgust, they brainwash children, they set up camps to train children to hate other religions (ever see "Jesus Camp"???), and to top it off, they're huge hypocrites! (Pastor Ted for example).

No one is saying that ALL Christians are like that, but many conservative ones are, for sure.

It's a fact that they discriminate and hate Gays. It's a fact that they use brainwashing techniques on their kids. It's a fact that they purposely teach young girls that they should be stay at home moms, instead of telling them they can be and do anything that want. It is a fact that they contribute to hate crimes against Gays by teaching people that being Gay is hateful. It is a fact that they contribute to the high incidence of suicide among Gay youth. That IS disgraceful!!! I have heard them on the radio and I have seen them on television. No one can tell me they don't do these things, because I've seen it with my own eyes.

Therefore, I have no problem with Laurend's statement.

[skyeblu79 0]

And a lot of us live in small towns in the Bible Belt. I literally knew only one (one!) Jewish family when I was growing up. To my knowledge, I don't believe I have met anyone that is a practicing Jew since that time, or at least, no one that talked about being Jewish. The thing about smaller universities in the south is that the majority of the people they attract are generally Christians, mainly because the majority of the people in the south are Christians.

How? I didn't say that all Christians were bigoted. In fact, I specifically said that many are good people. I think anyone who has a brain knows that there are good Christians. But there are also bad ones. How was my statement stereotyping and prejudging? I never said that being a Christian is what made people bad, just that there are bad Christians. I see them everyday. You know, the people that use their religion as an excuse for bigotry and hatred, the ones that call people fags, camel jockeys, and rag-heads.

Believing many news reports about Christians isn't stereotyping and prejudging. I know that many Christians aren't horrible human beings. But there are some out there that are. And I have been around a lot of people that use their Christianity as a way to discriminate (advertising their business as a Christian workplace in help wanted ads, etc.), so while I don't think that all Christians are bad people, I also don't doubt the news reports on the ones that are.

This statement will probably get me attacked, but I am going to say it anyway. I personally think that a lot of Christians (not talking about anyone on this board) need to stop whining and take their medicine. We never heard a whole lot out of them in general when it was other religions taking the brunt of the criticism, but now that it is Christianity getting the evil eye, being criticized, and having jokes made about it, look out! They wouldn't have said a peep to the news agencies when the stories about the black muslim terrorist group came out (why were they identified as black and muslim instead of just terrorists?), but as soon as someone says something not so wonderful about a group of Christians, they are up in arms.

Whatever? You can say what you want to say but if someone made that same comment about something related to you, you would think the same thing.

You are clearly white, your a woman, and your overweight. If someone said that crap to you, I guarantee you wouldn't be saying that.

All fat white woman aren't bad, some are good. What the?!

[skyeblu79 0]

Do you not see what you are doing? Sounds like a bunch of stereotyping and prejudging.

It's not stereotyping, because it's true. Instead of replacing the word "Christian" with types of races, try replacing it with "Members of the KKK" or "terrorists". Then it makes sense. The reason some (not all) Christians are mean, bigoted, and disgraceful human beings is because they DO discriminate against others, are bigoted, and are disgracful. They treat Gays with hatred and disgust, they brainwash children, they set up camps to train children to hate other religions (ever see "Jesus Camp"???), and to top it off, they're huge hypocrites! (Pastor Ted for example).

No one is saying that ALL Christians are like that, but many conservative ones are, for sure.

It's a fact that they discriminate and hate Gays. It's a fact that they use brainwashing techniques on their kids. It's a fact that they purposely teach young girls that they should be stay at home moms, instead of telling them they can be and do anything that want. It is a fact that they contribute to hate crimes against Gays by teaching people that being Gay is hateful. It is a fact that they contribute to the high incidence of suicide among Gay youth. That IS disgraceful!!! I have heard them on the radio and I have seen them on television. No one can tell me they don't do these things, because I've seen it with my own eyes.

Therefore, I have no problem with Laurend's statement.

It sounds like sterotyping to me. And she posted like 5 posts and none of them said anything about conservative christians.

And the thing is I have agreed with a lot of the stuff you too have said and b/c I am a Christian it sounds like my thoughts are completely discounted. I don't speak for all Christians and they all don't speak for me. I would think the same would go w/your beliefs (I would think). I would never say that crap about anything you believe, b/c personally I think it's tacky and a lack of respect.

Laurend, did say she grew up in a small (maybe sheltered town). I also grew up in the south (NC), but I have experienced a lot of stuff.

I guess I just don't see how you can be an atheist knowing how you are prejudged a lot and then say some of that same crap to someone else.

[anonemouse 1]

All fat white woman aren't bad, some are good. What the?!

Is that supposed to be an offensive statement? I don't see the problem with it. There are bad fat women out there, just like there are bad thin women. That statement isn't prejudging fat women, because it isn't assuming that fat women are bad because of being fat. Just like Christianity isn't necessarily what makes a Christian bad. Therefore, the statement is not incorrect and is not prejudging. Now, if I said that Christianity was what made them bad people, I could understand your anger, but I didn't. Bad people use Christianity to excuse and explain their bad acts (e.g., it says this or that in the Bible). Their Christianity shouldn't excuse them from being held accountable as bad people. So, I stand by my statement. Not all Christians are good, not all are bad.

People see the most outspoken Christians. In many cases, these aren't the "good" Christians. They are the bigoted, hateful ones. When other Christians and their organizations stay silent and don't speak up against them, I feel that they are giving tacit agreement and support to them. Saying, "Well, news organizations just don't want to show the good Christians," is bull. Make enough of a scene and speak up loudly, and people will listen.

[green 6]

I grew up and still live in Toronto, Canada. I have heard that this is now the 6th largest city in North America. It is a city that is made up of immigrants. It is also a city that is more like New York or San Francisco - if you want to compare it to American cities - in that the core of the city is the most vibrant part and the most sought after part in which to live. Our areas of dreadful poverty and dysfunction are to be found in certain suburban areas. Although the city is becoming more and more expensive to own property in there are still many areas where our most recent waves of immigrants manage to live. We all live here fairly peacefully; and it is certain that living and working with people who have come here from all over the world makes life here culturally very, very rich.

At the foot of my street is a Catholic church which serves the Portuguese community. They hold wonderfully passionate religious parades on this residential street. Nearby is a store front mosque. An imam lives a couple of doors down the street from my house. In the house beside him lives a Hindu family who have always treated me as a family friend. I have worked along side Hindus, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, atheists, and Jews. Some of my family are Jewish though they are non-believers. Indeed, pretty much all of my immediate family, the Christian side and the Jewish side, can be considered to be atheist. In brief, I live in an interesting and largely tolerant society.

Although I have just gone into my story at great and boring length I have done so because I am in touch, through another website, with atheists who live in the Bible Belt. These folks have provided their own stories of how they live in their communities. I find these fascinating. It would appear that there are communities where this issue of religious freedom is not as loosey-goosey as it is up here in the north or in large cities anywhere. The splendid thing about a large city is that it does buy one anonimity....

In truth I do believe that I found myself launching on this long post because I was so surprised to read in an earlier post that there might be Christians out there who had never encountered folks of other faith. These are people who are, by and large, just as enchanting and just as irritating as you and I.

[Wheetsin 714]

Although I have just gone into my story at great and boring length I have done so because I am in touch, through another website, with atheists who live in the Bible Belt...there are communities where this issue of religious freedom is not as loosey-goosey

I'm one of them. I'm not in the heart of the bible belt, but I am on the northern border of it. And boy would I have some stories. I can tell you that here, even on the outskirts of the belt, the idea of religious freedom is an idea, not a practice, and not being mainstream in your religious practices can impact every aspect of your life, unless you're smart enough (haha) to keep it to yourself. Which would account for the fairly large number of closet atheists I know.

[anonemouse 1]

I can tell you that here, even on the outskirts of the belt, the idea of religious freedom is an idea, not a practice, and not being mainstream in your religious practices can impact every aspect of your life, unless you're smart enough (haha) to keep it to yourself. Which would account for the fairly large number of closet atheists I know.

Yep. I am an atheist, and I definitely don't talk about it unless asked. Unless I am online, I generally refuse to get into discussions about religion. I only reveal that I am an atheist when people ask me what my religion is.

[skyeblu79 0]

Is that supposed to be an offensive statement? I don't see the problem with it. There are bad fat women out there, just like there are bad thin women. That statement isn't prejudging fat women, because it isn't assuming that fat women are bad because of being fat. Just like Christianity isn't necessarily what makes a Christian bad. Therefore, the statement is not incorrect and is not prejudging. Now, if I said that Christianity was what made them bad people, I could understand your anger, but I didn't. Bad people use Christianity to excuse and explain their bad acts (e.g., it says this or that in the B

People see the most outspoken Christians. In many ible). Their Christianity shouldn't excuse them from being held accountable as bad people. So, I stand by my statement. Not all Christians are good, not all are bad.

cases, these aren't the "good" Christians. They are the bigoted, hateful ones. When other Christians and their organizations stay silent and don't speak up against them, I feel that they are giving tacit agreement and support to them. Saying, "Well, news organizations just don't want to show the good Christians," is bull. Make enough of a scene and speak up loudly, and people will listen.

Why would you be offended by it? I only took your situation in the context of what you said....

I don't care what you said your statement was offensive. I equate it to saying I have some black friends?

Speak up for what...I can't do it. It's the same to me as going up against the clan.

[green 6]

Yah, no longer surprising for Green to hear. One of these dudes was explaining that by publically admitting atheism he was risking social ostracism, loss of job, and maybe having his house burned down...and this is a white dude, a professional, and a pillar of his community! You wouldn't think that he would be this vulnerable, eh?

I found his story to be as strange and as foreign as anything I have heard from the Muslim theocracies. I was touched when the dude said that he and his wife might like to retire to Canada, the cold country!

Of course, and this is thanks to global warming, Toronto's new winter is kinda like that of Virginia! Our temperatures have been in the 40s and 50s and we haven't seen any snow at all. But that is the topic of another thread.

As for me, Green, like the rest of her family, is an atheist all the time. This presents no social problems up here. Over the past 8 years a number of members of my tiny family have died - first dad, then aunt, baby brother, then mum - and all of these members were dispatched without last minute religious intervention.

[anonemouse 1]

Why would you be offended by it? I only took your situation in the context of what you said....

I don't care what you said your statement was offensive. I equate it to saying I have some black friends?

Speak up for what...I can't do it. It's the same to me as going up against the clan.

I am going to be blunt and tell you that these statements make absolutely no sense at all to me. I wasn't offended by your statement. That was my point by saying, "Was that supposed to be offensive?" I assumed that you meant it to be, since you seemed offended by my former statements. Right now, I am basically scratching my head and saying, "Huh?" in regards to your statements that I quoted. Can you explain your statements to me? 'Cause right now, I have no idea what you are arguing.