New and different case

[JillianMarie 0]

Hi everyone!

I just decided as of last night to have the vertical sleeve surgery. I have yo-yo'd all my life through dieting and am sick of the skinny years and the fat years, the times when i do go out and look great, and the times when i stay at home and hide. I have become a compulsive overeater and have stretched my stomach out to no end. I am able to eat nearly 7 lbs of food without getting sick, more than probably anyone i or you will ever encounter could eat. I am not obese, but do have some weight to lose, and if i didn't eat 6 pounds of broccoli each night in order to feel satisfied, i would be significantly obese (granted i substituted with regular foods). My constant hunger leads to food binges and overeating. I am young and very active so fortunately i have not become obese, however, i know that my activity level will not be able to remain the same, as i have to workout for nearly 3 hours a day now to burn off what i eat due to hunger. I am having this surgery to live a normal life. Not to lose 100 lbs, but to be able to have a small stomach, eat small portions and feel full, not have the constant binge eating followed by hours of exercise, I would just like to be able to feel full off of a small amount of healthy food, and be able get a normal-not excessive- amount of exercise daily. I believe that if my hunger is reduced quite a bit that my extra weight (approximately 30 lbs) will be lost (i eat low fat, low calorie foods as it is and exercise) and i will be able to maintain that loss without struggling from a huge empty stomach. I know this sounds like a crazy story to most of you, but for once i have hope that this weight battle will finally come to an end :thumbup1:

[MINI-Me 196]

Hmmm ... not sure what to say ...What is your BMI? If you aren't 30+, I would be surprised if any doctor would perform this surgery on you.

I saw your other post about bogus surgery. While I was not sleeved in Mexico, I know a lot of people on here were. They definitely KNOW they had surgery & their restriction shows it.

Sounds like you have a lot of questions - how much have you researched this surgery? It is MAJOR surgery and you need to know what you are getting into. I hope I don't come across as "preachy", but this is not a miracle cure - there is a lot of work and sacrifice that goes along with this tool. If we can help you in your research, just let us know.

[Mary Gordon 3]

you have definitely analyzed your situation and you have taken the best decision ever. why wait until you?re obese or have health problems, better do it now when you can and stick to your diet and exercise.

Have you already thought of a doctor? are you planning to go to Mexico?

if you are, then i recommend Dr. Aceves. if you need more info don?t hesitate to write or call.:thumbup:

[lmmore 0]

It doesn't sound like you have the BMI for this surgery. 30 lbs. is nothing. You writing to people who are 100, 200, 300, and 400 lbs overweight. Go on the Atkins diet. you'll lose the thirty pounds. If you practice high portein, low carbs, and low calories, with your activity you will lose weight.

[Tiffykins 673]

Get counseling first. Honestly, if you are not obese, but have a compulsive, volume eating disorder, I would not suggest surgery. Not to mention that, unfortunately, not every sleeve patient loses their hunger. Many people find that their head hunger is much more intense post sleeve. They want to eat, but they can't so they eat things that go down easy. Even though we have a sleeve, we can still suck down a 2000 calorie milkshake if we want. If you have these compulsions, and can't eat 6lbs of broccoli, what will you turn to in order to feel satisfied? Or, you could find ways to cheat the sleeve. It's not difficult, I promise. I'm the poster child for "what not to eat post sleeve", but I'm not the norm, and have not had any issues losing.

They operate on our stomachs not our brains. You could end up being miserable, and possibly not be satisfied with surgery if you do not address the eating disorder. If you do choose to have surgery, just remember that none of the surgeries will fix head hunger, or your compulsions to eat large amounts of food.

I understand hunger. I was hungry all the time as well, but I also knew that after 4 pieces of pizza that I'd had enough.

I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but after being through the surgery. Processing all of the emotions that come with it, I can honestly sit here and tell you that this surgery alone will not "fix" the eating issues you acknowledge, and want help with managing. Unfortunately, just removing 75-80% of your stomach isn't going to change the way you view food.< /span>

[wannalise 16]

Jillian,

I am so sorry to hear the struggles you are going through. Many of us understand the compulsion, the binging, and the feeling out of control. I noticed that you said you are young and I don't know what age that is exactly... I know that thirty pounds seem daunting, and I know that the boards have a lot of positivity about the surgery, but ultimately it is surgery. There is the risk of death. You lose 80-85% of a vital organ.

I hope I don't offend you by saying this, but if you are able to consume that amount of food in a sitting it is not because you are too hungry. You, like me, and like most people who get morbidly obese, have an eating disorder. I can't tell you what I would give to go back in time and tell myself when I was only 30 lbs overweight that there would be hope for me with counseling, and with support. I could have avoided so much hurt. This surgery is hard. I still have all those compulsions in me and I am in a place where I can only eat a few bites in a sitting, but there are days that I am white knuckling it still sometimes.

I know that your are desperate for that feeling of being out of control of your own body to go away. I don't want to burst your bubble, but the surgery will not do that. I pray that you will keep seeking out alternatives to help you and there are still loads of us who wish to be a support to you, but please oh please don't rush into surgery.

[pumpkin07 32]

I always hope Oprah or Dr. Oz will talk more about weight loss surgery, particularly the sleeve. But I did hear Dr. Oz once say he did not have a problem with weight loss surgery for people with appetite control issues. It is a very proactive thing to do with a good doctor's advice.

It is unusual to eat 7 lbs of food, you are right. Wow. I really pray for you to find the right doctors to lead you to the right decision for your health concerns.....

This surgery, like dieting, is no 'piece of cake'. But...I see "Ruby" struggle on her show with self control, and I am so proud of her accomplishments. I don't follow her all the time, so I may have missed it if she ever addressed weight loss surgery. But I find myself wondering why she does not get a sleeve or similar. It must be hard to constantly fight cravings and know if you cheat it could leave to a major landslide that, for her, could last a few years.

I believe once your stomach is all stretched out your appetite hormone is increased, and that it sort of leads a person to sustain a high weight. So in that way, to me 'forced' calorie restriction via a sleeve is a good solution. I wouldn't say a simple solution, but for me easier than what I see Ruby going through on her show. food addiction is tough to give up without restriction, at least in my life that is true.

I think sometimes we gain weight during bad times, and that even though the bad times have passed, we now have created a new problem that doesn't pass so easily. Problems sometimes start for one reason, but continue for another. I think that was the case for me anyway. I am happy in my life/marriage, etc. but definitely the weight didn't just fall off b/c I was happy.

I admire you for being proactive and just like others want to make certain your doctor has your best interest at heart.

[MlkPas 5]

I have to agree with Tiffykins that it would be a really good idea for you to get some counseling before you go ahead with surgery. As others have said, most surgeons will not operate on someone with only 30 lbs to lose, and personally I'd be very leery of any surgeon who would.

Also, although the surgery is a wonderful tool for those of us who have struggled with overweight and obesity for many years, the sleeve and the restrictions it imposes are no joke. This operation is permanent and you will NEVER be able to eat like a normal person again. Ever. Not even for one day. Is it really worth it to you?

Finally, as Tiffykins said, there are ways to binge "around" the sleeve. If you do turn out to have a compulsive eating disorder, it's perfectly possible for you to binge on milkshakes or chips or other "slider" foods and end up heavier than you are now, even with the sleeve. For some reason junky food goes down easier than healthy food, and with the sleeve you won't have the option of eating pounds of fresh vegetables at a time -- if you feel like you MUST binge, you'll be limited to junky slider foods, which could land you in a gigantic world of hurt.

[wannalise 16]

Jillian,

I am scared for you. I thought about this post a few times today, any surgeon that operated on you would be doing you a huge disservice. Please oh please do much more homework before you make this decision. As happy many people post op are this is so life altering. And you won't be able to go back. I would be so sad for you to do something irreperable to your body if it weren't necessary. Please be very careful.

[JillianMarie 0]

I appreciate everyones responses. To clarify things, i have gone to counseling, i have been to an eating disorder center, i have tried Atkins and many other diets. I know that it's not a lot of weight that i am talking about. However, someone mentioned about me being proactive about doing something about it ahead of time... and that is my point. I don't have a huge appetite, it's not the thought of food or looking at food and wanting it, it is my actual stomach feeling hungry and empty ALL THE TIME. Even after i eat a substantial amount of food, an hour later, my stomach is growling (not gurgling from digestion) but actually feels hungry again like i have an empty pit. Counseling doesn't fix this. And i CHOOSE to eat large amounts of vegetables so that i don't end up 300 pounds or more and risk other health concerns. Eventually this problem could lead to severe obesity, and that is what i am trying to avoid. I do not want a smaller stomach to down a 2000 calorie milkshake. I want to be able to consume a normal sized meal, and be done. Not feel as if i have eaten a grain of rice as others sit around me stuffed. Right now there is a physical problem- the stretched out stomach, and it hasn't shrunk on it's on through liquid diets or other methods. I see this as being the only option that could help me long term. I eat very healthfully and enjoy healthy food, it would just be a dream to be able to sit and have a yogurt and a sliced apple and it hold me over for a few hours as opposed to 6 yougurts and 5 apples and still that hunger nagging at me. Hopefully someone understands where i am coming from.

[lmmore 0]

Maybe you will find someone who is compasionate enough to do the surgery. But they have strict regulations on meeting their criteria. Wish you the best of luck.

[deletedsally 8]

There are so many things that we still don't understand about the complex relationships between neurotransmitters, hormones, metabolism, insulin resistance, exercise, genetics, appetite, food intake, and weight related problems. I've been on one diet after another most of my adult life in an effort to control my weight, and spent a large part of my life feeling hungry. You wouldn't think I'd gone hungry a day in my life to look at me. After regaining weight I had lost numerous times, I began to pathologize myself. I went to overeater's anonymous. I had sponsors. I had food plans. I drove over an hour (one way) to go to meetings several times a week. I went to counseling. I went to graduate school and became a counselor...but none of that could turn off the physical hunger. Until I began reading the research on grehlin several years ago, my experience made no sense to me. For example, when I started a long-term eating plan at 240 pounds using a food addiction food plan and successfully lost 100 pounds, WHY did I find myself ravenously hungry at 140, when I was still consuming the same amount of calories that had satisfied me at 240? I thought I was crazy until I read about ghrelin. When I learned that our bodies produce hormones that increase our appetites in response to calorie restriction and weight loss, the light bulb came on. Rats who are fed until they are completely satiated will go on a feeding frenzy when injected with ghrelin. It is part of the reason that 95% of the people who go on a diet gain all the weight back plus some.

I researched every possible avenue looking for a way to turn my hunger hormones down, so that my own body couldn't continue to sabotage my efforts to maintain a weight loss. If I had been able to find a solution to the problem, I would not have elected to have this surgery.

Even so, I understand (and share) the other's concerns about your eating history. It's impossible to predict how someone who is used to eating 6 pounds of broccoli would respond emotionally to a surgery that would restrict them to eating around 1/4-1/2 cup of food. There is no changing your mind once it's done. Sadly, I understand your distress about feeling constantly hungry and wanting to find some way to maintain a healthy weight before it climbs higher. I wish I had found an answer when I weighed 119, instead of feeling compelled to have this surgery because I was weighing in at 283 and felt like it was my only hope.

I wouldn't presume to know what the answer is for you, since I clearly did not have solutions that worked for myself. It's possible that you have a mental health problem. It's also possible that you are living in a body that has been producing exceptionally high levels of ghrelin in response to all your yoyo dieting, or that you have some combination of physiological problems. It sounds like your first step should be to find a really good doctor who is knowledgable in these areas.

[Tiffykins 673]

As long as you acknowledge that not every sleeve patient loses their hunger, and you find a doctor that within his ethics would perform this surgery, then I wish nothing but the best for you.

I still believe that no surgery will cure this compulsive eating, and habits that you seem to want to minimize because you've tried counseling and it didn't work, counseling doesn't cure the disorder, but it gives you coping skills/mechanisms that you can overcome some of the compulsive behavior.

I think my biggest concern is that some people do struggle with maintenance. I am one of those people unfortunately. Since you only 30lbs to lose, if you were to lose 60 would you then technically be underweight? I'm not underweight, but I have bones protruding including my ribs, backbones, shoulderblades, wrists and ankles are nothing but bone/skin. It is not something that I recommend anyone having to go through when they slip down into the "too small" zone. It's emotionally and mentally exhausting.

I understand being proactive, but I honestly can not imagine having 85% of my stomach removed to lose 30lbs with zero guarantee that I would lose my hunger. Yes, I am one of the fortunate ones that has lost their hunger, but if you stick around, or do more research, you'll find others do not lose it. Also, mentally, the sleeve definitely does not resolve head hunger at all.

I'm not trying to discourage you completely, but I think it's only fair that you have a full "eyes wide open" of this surgery, and life post op. It's not easy, it's not a quick fix. Even though you state that you don't want to eat junk food, or suck down a milkshake, unfortunately, you can not predict your behavior until you are faced with the fact that you can not consume 6lbs of broccoli to soothe the hunger, or compulsive desire. If counseling, dieting, and other attempts haven't stopped you from doing this, you could very well find a way to continue this learned behavior with the sleeve.

[JillianMarie 0]

Tiffykins, thank you for your response. Yes all patients are different. I am postponing surgery to think about it more and research it further as well as look into other options. It could be that a liquid diet could help me shrink my stomach. The thing is that i dont want to lose more than 20 or 30 lbs, i mainly want to shrink the size of my stomach. That's where my case is so different. It would not be possible for me to lose 60 without being a walking skeleton. Possibly my doctor could do a modified version of the surgery and reduce my stomach to a "normal" size as opposed to the very small size that it normally is reduced to in most patients. I can only ask and find out.

[LAN2k 18]

Tiffykins, thank you for your response. Yes all patients are different. I am postponing surgery to think about it more and research it further as well as look into other options. It could be that a liquid diet could help me shrink my stomach. The thing is that i dont want to lose more than 20 or 30 lbs, i mainly want to shrink the size of my stomach. That's where my case is so different. It would not be possible for me to lose 60 without being a walking skeleton. Possibly my doctor could do a modified version of the surgery and reduce my stomach to a "normal" size as opposed to the very small size that it normally is reduced to in most patients. I can only ask and find out.

I am so glad that you are rethinking having this surgery. Thank you Tiff for being unbiased and truly helpful.

Please understand that with this surgery you would not be able to eat a "normal" meal. For the initial few MONTHS, eating is tedious as well as Fluid intake. You would drop 30lbs in weeks and the weight loss would keep going. Eventually, the portions of food increase but still when compared to even a "normal" healthy dietary intake--the sleeve limits the majority of people to about 4 oz of dense food, meats etc. and eventually 6oz give or take a couple of soft/soupy/mushy stuff like warm Cereal, Soup, yogurt. It is a MAJOR change and I fear you would lose just too much weight very quickly and you just don't have that much weight to lose. I'm 7.5 months out of surgery and my starting weight was 232 I'm now 154...still losing. By the 3rd month I was down approx. 70lbs. Even though I had nearly 100lbs to lose, I was really shaken up with my inability to consume enough to stay healthy and for that first couple of months I was terrified at looking at the scale because the loss was so rapid...Although I understand what you are saying, I think this is too drastic a measure for you. I wish you success in finding a way to help yourself.