BJean

If YOU don't like the fact that this is not a theocratic nation, then YOU should live elsewhere, she muttered. The science behind the theory of evolution is compelling. The science behind the theory of creationism is non-existent. The schools teach science, not things that require faith to explain. That's the trouble with you right wingers, you think that if people don't agree with you that they should go live someplace else. This is my country, land of the free and the brave. Not land of the Baptists or Disciples of Christ or Catholics or (fill in the blank) other denomination. It is the home of all people, religious nor non-religious, and we are guaranteed that we will not enact laws that require the worship of any God or Budda or Allah or Thor or Zeus. If you make this a Christian nation, you've gone against all the things that make this country great. I have no problem with you worshipping your religion or even trying to win people over to your religion or belief system. But I do have a problem with you telling me that this is a Christian nation because that presumes that Christianity is the law of the land. No religion rules this land.

What are you talking about, patty? They've had trouble writing facts since the beginning of writing. And if they've had trouble with it during the past 40 to 50 years, isn't that a reason for concern?

It is really scary to think that white knuckle conservatives can re-write history via control of the textbooks our schools use. Maybe they'll use Carl Rove's book as a reference point when they write the school books, eh?

This is the first I've heard of Texas having the biggest influence over the content of historical textbooks. And teaching creationism and Christianity in the public schools here in Texas, if true, is an extremely good argument for me and my family to move as far from it as we can. The religious right are totally against teaching children about sex education, something that is biologically imperative for every person to know. They say that they are against it because they believe that it is the parents' job to do that. Nevermind that those very parents do not seem to have a solid sexual education themselves which would ensure that their children are as well educated on the topic as they need to be. The bad repercutions from no sex ed, or poor sex ed is felt throughout our society. On the other hand, they believe that the Christian religion should be taught in schools, including the theory of creationism. It makes absolutely no sense. One is actually the biological and anatomical functioning of the human body. The other is a faith in the Bible and God, which is a personal belief that changes from household to household and does not impact society if it is withheld from a child's education.

I think that Awnold Schwartznegger trumps Chuck Norris or Steven Segal, even though he's a Republican. I think maybe he's a Democrat in Republican clothing. He's conservative, but not like Chuck Norris. Who, btw, I believe was originally from Oklahoma. But Oklahoma v. Texas, that's another ugly debate. People like patty should be very afraid for Americans to embrace the idea that the U.S. is a Christian nation and that we include religious teachings in our public schools. Do they have any idea how many Islamic folks have been migrating to the U.S. as a result of our war in Iraq? One day, they might have enough clout to cause their religion to be taught in public schools not only in their homeland, but also here in the good old U.S. of A. Not too far fetched when you consider the militant posture many religious fanatics from that part of the world embrace. When you argue for a cause, it is incumbent upon you to understand the potential change and the result of that change, to its' logical end. Many people who go along with the argument of the U.S. being a theocracy are ignorant of the potential for creating something they would be totally against. They are often intimidated by the promise of hell, fire and damnation if they do not support the arguments of the extremist right wingers, who as we all know, insert fear, bigotry and satan in nearly all their arguments. They know that guilt and fear is the foundation of religion because they have had it heaped on them in abundance by their ministers and priests on a weekly, sometimes daily, basis.

Devana, my DH's father would probably be dead by now if we hadn't moved his mother to an assisted living home. She's had several strokes. She does have all her mental faculties, but does have some memory loss. She also lost the use of her left arm and leg and consequently is wheelchair bound and she has some difficulty eating as well. She wanted to stay at home with her husband, which we tried for a couple of years. But she had 3 different falls, which resulted in broken bones, when she tried to do things without asking for help. We were told by people who work with aging people that since he's so frail, if he continued to try to take care of her at night (they had help during the day) that he would die long before she did. We all tried to push that out of our minds, but then we began to see it happen. He got very sick, had several small heart attacks and other digestive issues. We took him to the ER relatively frequently. So the kids made the very hard decision that she needed to go to an assisted living home. Once he was out from under the stress of her waking him up several times a night, with him trying to assist her physically when he wasn't really capable, his health has improved dramatically. She is very unhappy and complains about not being able to be in her own home, but she needs someone to help her who is schooled in taking care of someone who can't help lift herself in and out of chairs, beds, bathroom, etc. It is very sad that after over 50 years of being married and thinking that you're always going to be there for each other, to realize that you must not only accept outside help but that you may have to live in an unfamiliar environment not only without your spouse, but also without the physical furnishings that you've accumulated and loved. But the family caregiver for someone with serious health limitations or illness is often the one who suffers the most. People need to keep that in mind when making the hard decisions that surround aging, declining loved ones.

I don't have children in the system but my little GD is here. What do I need to worry about?

They certainly do!

Have you all studied the ancient gods that were part of a belief system a long time before Christ was born? 123crod, you say that: "Throughout history there have been many gods, but they are all dead reproductions made out of cement or other materials . . ." Which makes me wonder how much you've studied the actual history of belief systems throughout the ages or if you have found one that you like and stick to it like glue. (Albeit the glue that keeps you together and not wanting to live on this earth without it.)

btreiger are you trying to say that the Republican's packages are bigger than the presidents?

That poem does pretty much encapsulate the reasons why Christianity means so much to so many people.

Leigha, when my husband left his corporate job (a major defense contractor) and started his own business, we were faced with what to do about health insurance. What we had wasn't fabulous, but what we could get was even more expensive with less coverage. Now (you may have read this earlier) we insure our employees which is very expensive for us but their coverage is better than ours. The carrier refuses to insure us because we have both had surgery within the past 5 years which they call a "preexisting condition." And they call it that as if we are going to be facing a similar surgery in the future. But both our surgeries were one time things, not ongoing problems. He had to pass a very rigorous health screening exam too in order to get new life insurance. Not a bad idea to let them do the blood work. Man, if you can figure out a way to beat this lousy system, it's very cool. I love your earlier post about the health care stats in the U.S., Canada and "England" (they may just be talking about England and not all of the U.K. I guess.) I received an email like that too (not sure if it was exactly the same one.) Your post script was awesome and the most relevant information Americans need to understand.

Glad that the news about your mother is good today, patty.

You're being too kind. It's what the extremists in this country are good at: misinformation and misleading stories and in many cases, outright lies. They're good at setting up scary scenarios that do not exist but spark the imagination of anyone who wants a reason to distrust the government. But they only do this when the government is being run by Democrats. You do not hear this kind of bull$hite when the Republicans are in control and yet, they have been the most guilty of not protecting our environment from the massive corporate polluters. If one strips away the lies and misinformation, one will quickly see through their unfair and unreasonable political hype and learn that the Democrats try to represent the majority of Americans. The Repbulicans justify polluting the environment and make lame arguments for it. The Democrats are concerned about the air we breathe, the water we drink and the food we eat. This ridiculous article coming out of Tyler is a fine example of a "red herring" to get people to turn away from the serious business of taking care of our environment. The President has no plans to place a ban on fishing the lakes of America, but they're trying to get fishermen and women to be anti-Obama for it anyway.

Well said, Leigha. And I too am very sorry to hear that your mom is having health problems. It's very tough to see your parents go through hospitalizations and procedures. We know that they can't live forever, but we want the time they have here on earth to be the healthiest and happiest they can have. It's times like this that we really appreciate good health care providers! Hope she has great nurses and doctors at her side. She's lucky to have such a caring and attentive daughter.

Hey, sure you belong on this thread! Certainly as much as anyone else does. If it is fun for you to vent occasionally, it's a good thing. If it just upsets you then bah! pass it by. Some of us enjoy ranting and raving and reading the opinions of others - even when we disagree. I have learned a lot here. I do not take it personally when someone disagrees with me. We all have different backgrounds, different experiences and different outlooks on life. We sometimes learn more from people we disagree with. At least it makes us think. And as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing. I've enjoyed reading your posts.

Missy: "Once a person gets beyond the local they have already sold out to far too many people. So, I guess my lack of respect for politicians in general colors my opinion, also." I believe that often the locals are corrupt too. And it is definitely frustrating, I agree. And we have a system in Washington that actually makes it practically unavoidable for our politicans. The lobbyists have far too much power and too direct access to Congress. Got any ideas of how it's ever going to change? Getting rid of the current folks (at least at the national level) won't solve a thing. It's the system that has to change and they are in charge of it so how's that going to make it happen? I still think it is valuable (although yes, frustrating) for us to get informed and to try to get our representatives to actually represent us and our needs. Letters to congress actually do get read and counted and answered by their staff.

MissyMS, btw, I noticed that you were banded in Decmeber and you've lost over 50 lbs!!! That's fantastic. Congratulations!!!! Way to go.

So you're saying that we should not call people out when we know that they've lied? I mean on either side. We should just throw up our hands and say, well the other side does it so it's acceptable for us to lie? That's b.s. If you know of a Democrat that has lied, post it, yell about it, rant and rave about it. We welcome it. We don't want that from any of our elected officials. But if you think that the Democrats use lies, fear, misstatements and misrepresentations to get their agenda passed, to the extent that the Republicans do, I will take issue with that because it just isn't true. Everybody in the world lies. But that don't make it right.

Heard the other day that the higher ups in Iraq have asked Blackwater to leave. The people who complain about taxes should be really steamed that the previous administration committed us to Iraq and that those guys you mentioned, Cheney, et. al., made billions in OUR tax dollars. Because who else is going to pay for that war? This must be what it feels like to be raped and have the rapist tell you it was for your own good.

Sadly Leigha, I have found that to be the case with most of my Republican friends. Usually when something like that happens they don't get up and leave though. They change the subject and say something like, "well, Obama wants to just keep spending, spending, spending until our children will be burdened with such a huge deficit they'll never get out of debt!" Or, "Obama wants to tax companies so much that it will put the small businessman out of business!" Or, "Obama wants the government to pay for abortions!" Or any number of other talking points and buzz words that Limbaugh, Beck and Rupert Murdoch have drilled into their pretty little heads. And we have congressmen getting up and saying those things too when they have evidence to the contrary in front of their faces. It isn't that they don't know what they're doing. It's that their votes have been bought and paid for.* Only Americans who believe their rethoric are clueless. *(Except in the case of that Stupak dude who wants to make abortion an issue on the back of health care legislation - I think he's probably just a die hard Catholic trying to make points with the Pope.)

Well that's your opinion, of course. If we were smart and we wanted an evil dictator out of the picture we should get one of your CIA operatives to take him out with one bullet. It is terribly wrong what we've done in Iraq to our own servicemen and women. And that's before you tally up the numbers of innocent people in that country, plus the infrastructure and everything else. When did Americans (read you and me) sign up to be citizens of a country that is willing to do what we did in Iraq? What we did in Iraq has nothing to do with our freedom. Since when has America become the land of the war mongering, home of the aggressors? I can tell you when. When some of our big shot politicians became so greedy and so hateful that they decided to manipulate congress and lie to Americans so they could do what their hearts lusted after - waging war on a middle eastern country that they thought they could whip. How many people - real lives - has that war caused? How many people are maimed for life? How many lives have forever been altered because of Dick Cheney's greed, Carl Rove's greed and George W. Bush's compliance? Do you really think that Iraq was about terrorists, bob? Yes? Well goody, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Right....sure... uh huh... honest to pete, you are beginning to crack me up!

To add to that, torture reminds me of child abuse. We get angry with a child. He or she has done something that we feel is worthy of punishment. We want them to tell us why they did it. We want them to say they were wrong and that they will never do it again. Some people believe that hitting a child will get the results and information that they believe they should have. The abuser is angry and they have the power to abuse. They get some satisfaction in punishing a child that has done something he or she shouldn't have done. They think that the abuse is justified. They think the abuse will get the best results. The problem is, the positive results they get are simply surface reactions on the part of the child. The child is doing or saying whatever is needed to survive the abuse. On the outside, they act like they've learned a lesson. On the inside, they seethe, they hate and they want revenge. When they become an adult in a position of power over a child - they get their revenge. They take it out on a child just like their parent did on them. It doesn't produce better people. It inflicts pain and hate and resentment and bitterness and a need for revenge. Abuse is an ignorant deed committed by an ignorant person.

bob, you're right on about polls and politics in America and the rest. Except I want to take a little exception with your example using torture. I don't believe that anyone with any sense or knowledge about torture would say yes, they believe in torture. First of all, we readily admit that when you torture someone it nearly always does cause the detainee to give up information. The problem is that it is not trustworthy or truthful information. They just want to survive the torture and will tell their captors anything they think will save their life. Second, as a nation we decided a long time ago that we did not want to be the kind of people who use torture EVER. We signed an aggreement to that effect and if we expect our men and women who become prisoners of other countries to abide by that rule, then we must stand up and treat people (ALL people) humanely, as we have promised to do. So I hope that Americans will be smart enough and have enough humanity that they will never decide that torture is acceptable. Under any circumstances. If we choose to torture people we will have become like the animals we are fighting.