BJean

patty: "No they wont. They'll be blaming thier folks for allowing the government to have such control of their lives and blaming them for the tremendous debt that they had to inherit. Just like we blame all of those in the past for the sham called Social security and the bill we have to keep paying and all the other government programs that are in bankruptcy." Ha, ha, ha, patty you crack me up. You silly, silly girl.

patty: "I know that the president has made a promise to not allow any funding for abortions in the HC bill that was passed yesterday, but he is a liar and can not be trusted with his promises. They are just talk to me. He talks to get his way. If ONE abortion is paid for with tax dollars someway somehow through trickery and deceitfulness, I believe the people will be in an uproar and there will be division that will be too thick to cut with a knife." It is comments like this that are too outrageous to be believed!!! If I hadn't read so many of your posts I wouldn't believe that you really mean it. Come on girl, settle down. Don't make problems for yourself that don't exist. You've got your gut in a knot over something that is a flat out lie. And I'm not talking about the president's lie because he hasn't lied. I'm talking about the lie I quoted of yours, above. If you want a good example of a president who lies, go back over all the lies that led up to our invasion of Iraq. Now that should get your stomach in a knot - especially considering that it looks like that band of thieves won't ever have to answer for it in court. And you have this president to thank for that.

That's great news rodriguez! My little girl had to be fed every 2 hours for 5 months. I was nearly at the end of my rope before she would take a bottle. About the time I thought I couldn't put one foot in front of the other, she grew and started accepting a bottle and allowing her daddy to feed her. So I sure know the bone tired exhaustion that you're probably feeling. The good part is that they grow pretty fast and things get better soon. I'm very happy that things are turning out so well with your new baby girl! Congratulations.

Thanks Cleo's you spared me the effort. I notice that ariscus has still not answered the questions. I asked them because I'm trying to figure out why anyone but people who gain from the insurance company's profits, would support them in this debate.

Let's say your information is totally on the up and up, ariscus. Just for discussion purposes of course. How in the world have the insurance companies been able to afford all the billions they've spent to defeat this bill - both in lobbyists fees and congressional bribes as well as the ads the run ad naseum on television? And why bother if their profits are so insignificant? Why not focus on providing a different kind of insurance?

katlaws... a political prisoner case? Steven Segal? Tell us more!! Chuck Norris is a gun totin' redneck. He has always portrayed such single-dimension characters and when you see him in person, you realize that he probably wasn't acting. I know. I know. How do I really feel about him...

I can never think of Rumsfeld's name. And I can't forget Carl Rove's no matter how hard I try. Such a motley crew. Cleo's do you ever go to movies? You should see "Green Zone" with Matt Damon. It is touted as being a typical Matt Damon spy thriller but it isn't. And it is very well done. And whether it is precisely true is pretty unimportant. It does paint a very plausible picture of what we think went on behind the scenes. And it will make you want to clamp the handcuffs on the bad guys.

Yeah, how'ya doin' rodrigquez? Well I hope!!

phil, you nut. You're 64. Your personal data sez so. You're already grown up. So move in next door to Rush and make him share some of his prescripts with you. But don't be surprised if it makes you a raving maniac. And don't expect your insurance company to pay for the drugs. And if they do cover your drugs, don't expect anything but lesser generic drug buzzes. A Bentley eh? I actually drive a Jaguar XK8. Eat your heart out. Seriously haven't had it long. It's not in the neighborhood of a Bentley but it's all mine and it's a blast! Of course when cute guys see my chubby butt climbing in and out of it, they might be put off a little, but if I get the sleeve and make my goal, I'm gonna be dangerous!

Thanks Colorado!

Hey k-man! Yes, the answer to both is yes. I probably have developed another hiatal hernia and the band may have slipped enough that there is no "sweet spot" to be had for me. I'm like Leigha. I would not be happy to just have the band removed. That's what my husband wishes I would do. Because the sleeve is so permanent and such a drastic measure. Which is why I got the band in the first place. I thought it was something that could quite easily be removed if I didn't make a success of it. Well that's not true. Removing one after 3.5 years is a pretty big deal. I know a lot of people have it done, but there are always adhesions after this long and that gets to be a sticky wicket - if you'll pardon the expression. So I'm still in the process of making the decision. I go for an upper G.I. soon and that will at least give me the physical reason why the band hasn't worked out well for me. Not only do I not want to gain back the weight I've kept off, but I still have 40 more lbs. to lose. My doc did say that the most successful sleeve conversion patients are the ones who were initially very successful with the band. Which I do find troublesome and that's why I am wanting to talk to people. I sure do not have one of the most succesfull band stories. Are you asking for a reason other than simple curiosity?

ariscus: "So everyone who works there should work for free? Or for minimum wage? Ah heck just let the government support them, thats why it's there right?" This kind of sarcasm is one reason why you're losing the battle. If you had seriously fair arguments in this debate, people would be willing to discuss it and give you some leeway. But everything has to be so far out in right field it is ridiculous. Insurance companies take home profits in the billions of dollars. While the people paying them that money get denied coverage or get kicked out when they have a catastrophic medical condition. How in the world can you possibly defend that kind of system? I believe in a capitalistic society as long as it doesn't create two distinct classes in that society - the obscenely wealthy and the obscenely poor. By the very nature of capitalism, greed has a way of becoming the norm and that is what has happened to us. Corporations became simply motivated by the "bottom line" and to hell with their workers, or in the case of insurance companies, to hell with the people they are supposed to be insuring. For capitalism to work, there must be some fairness in trade. If they are not going to govern themselves, then we want the government to step in and do it. As individuals we have absolutely no chance to do it on our own. The same thing happened with doctors and malpractice lawsuits. Yeah malpractice lawsuits got crazy but it was because of the incredibly unfair way that people were being treated when doctors did bad things that could have been avoided. They didn't police their own, they watched out for their own instead of the people they were supposed to be taking care of. The insurance companies brought this on themselves and you and others like you want to pat them on the head and tell then that they should keep up the good work of making all the profits that our capitalistic society can give them. And to hell with any and every body whose health suffers because of their "bottom line." It isn't right and the American people are not going to put up with it anymore. We need a good universal health care system. We need it and we deserve it. So if you think that you can keep the status quo forever when things have become so awful for so many people, you are wrong.

I'd like to post on Facebook: Those who wish to try Geroge W. Bush, Dick Cheney and others for war crimes, say AYE! But my conservative pals would ostracize me. In Texas, that would make me pretty much friendless.

Absolutely no offense taken! Glad you're free of LB issues. Unfortunately I am considering the sleeve. I have gone to the sleeve website but there's not a whole lot to read. Someone has already used my name there and I can't think of another one so I haven't logged on to ask questions. Duh. Surgery is a while off in the future. My doctor's office is having some of their patients call me so I can ask them about the things I'm worried about. Doctors don't seem to volunteer anything if it is something that might slow you down from allowing them to cut. Only semi-serious... I like my doctor a lot.

Thanks katklaws for the info.

I agree Larraine. Greed made the hit list of the Seven Deadly Sins for a darned good reason!

I take issue with the characterization that Social Security and Medicare are socialism. We have a say in these issues. We elect representatives and a president who do the work that we want done. It is why the government was structured the way it is - to give the people a say in what our government does. And the majority of people elected the politicians who have worked on this bill and caused it to be passed. They're doing what we asked them to do. They didn't lie about it. They didn't hide the educational part of it. If you are not aware of what is in a bill, it is incumbent upon you to find out what is. Then you need to make your ideas and wishes known to the your representatives in congress as well as to inform your president. If they do not do what you want, you will get an opportunity to vote them out. Unless of course YOU are in the minority and the candidate you like does not get elected by the majority. It's how this country rolls...

I think big ole' AMEN is to Cleo's... And I concur!

jre1964: "I only hope there is a True Conservative that runs in 2012. If there is a true conservative out there who runs, they will win because the American people are tired of this crap." Too bad there are so many ill-informed Americans today who are stressed that this bill passed the House! And you're wrong. The reason we have the congress and president we have today is because Americans were sick to death of the Republican-Conservative shennanigans of the past 8 years!! Now stand back and let the people who are willing to fix what is wrong with America do their jobs!

phil: "I wonder how many of our beloved Republican "friends" such as John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor, Alexander Lamar,and a host of other Right Wing politicians, oh, lets not forget Jim DeMint, rammed down our throat through "reconciliation" the Tax Cuts for the Rich with a simple up and down vote that passed with a 51 vote majority in the Senate. No cry of fowl then without a 60 vote mandate! Where was the chant then by the Democrats , lets start over with a (clean piece of paper). Health Care Reform was going to be Obamas "Waterloo". Go back to your rat hole Mr DeMint. Now that your eating huge slices of (Crow Pie) with your Southern Sweet Tea, you can now refocus on your true love, God, Gays, Guns, and Fetus worship!" Much better, phil. Good points! If more of us hammered back with language more like theirs, maybe we would make some inroads with the nutheads that listen to that group. Nah, it would probably only put us on their level which is lower than low.

Being able to actually rant and rave is what makes this forum fun. But getting personal really is more like the right wingers than the left. But we can get riled enough to say things that are off-base too. It's always been amazing to me what the Rush Limbaughs, Ann Coulters and Glenn Becks can say and get away with. If we responded in kind, they would lock and load and start firing. Take Rachael Maddow for instance. She gets her point across but doesn't get personal or spew lies. She sticks with the issues and points out the fallacies. And so far, I haven't seen her bawl and stamp her feet, call anyone names. We should take debate lessons from her.

You know patty, anger and resentment and distrust isn't just reserved for Republicans. There are Democrats who are just as angry and distrusting. Because they put up with 8 years of the Bush administration selling 'we the people" down the river. He took away many of the freedoms we hold dear. He took us into a war that put us in enormous debt. He subsidized some of the most profitable corporations in the world. He cut spending on programs that regular Americans expect from their government - programs that made this country great. His presidency cost the country and individual Americans dearly. And he did most of it behind the scenes without regular Americans' knowledge. And the stuff he did out in the open was rigged. Just like the anti-health care change movement has been. And Republicans today have the unmitigated gall to accuse the majority in congress of "ramming" this bill through? After the Democrats gave in to Republicans in so many ways on the health care bill. What fools! Republicans need to be taken out back and given a good whipping. They need to sit in the corner and think about their behavior. They need to repent and work for the people - not just for themselves. They need to stop talking trash and bashing anyone who disagrees with them. They need to argue merits and philosophy in the debates instead of the childish name-calling and fear mongering they've become famous for. The Republicans and right wing extremists need to step back and see themselves for what they've become. And maybe public flogging isn't too off base. Or short of that, maybe the left wing progressives need to stand up to the creeps and push back when they push us in a fight. This is definitely an empowering moment - even if the media continues to fuel the fire.

Chris of NJ, why don't you go look up socialism? What the congress has done is not socialism. But keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel smart.

They are still screaming this morning that this is not what Americans want. They are assuming that because they didn't want it, the majority of Americans didn't want it. The Rush Limbaughs, Glenn Becks, Ann Coulters and all the maniacs on the internet who are helping to incite hatred have done a job on a lot of Americans, but I do not think that they have convinced the MAJORITY of Americans that we didn't need a drastic change in our health care system. The thing that they've accomplished is to put fear in Americans, fear and distrust of the government. They have gone so far as to incite someone to throw money at a man disabled with Parkinsons, call Barney Frank a faggot, spit on a congressman and yell nigger at black people. And these are only the few incidents that were recorded on video. No telling what all really went on out of camera range. Unfortunately by inciting this kind of anger, it is going to take a long time for Americans to sort out their feelings on this. It may effect the upcoming elections, but in the long run I hope that people will endorse a party that is willing to work on the very difficult problems that we have in America. The Republicans refused to take care of them when they were the majority party. They took us into a war that was unfounded and cost thousands of our own Americans' deaths. They believe in keeping everything deregulated in business - including the health insurance industry. Our health care system is broken for millions and millions of Americans. It has failed them. They have either not been able to get the kind of health care they need or they have (after paying premiums) paid out of their own pocket for treatments and in many cases that caused them to lose their homes and other things that they worked long and hard to get. The Republicans let us down. The Republicans endorse corporate greed and making middle and low income Americans pay a higher price for everything they get. They have put themselves in this situation and the MAJORITY of Americans finally get it. That's why we threw the bums out and if the MAJORITY of Americans vote them back in, then they will be ignoramuses that get what they deserve. It seems to me that Americans have taken enough of a beating that they will not make that same mistake again. Unless of course, the Republicans pull the same crap they pulled in the 2000 election and rig the vote and it doesn't matter how the MAJORITY of Americans vote anyway.

Alex, I'm still wondering if you'll tell us what specifically you were talking about, above.