WHY are people voting for McCain?

[stevegoad 32]

He did say in the debates it would be a litmus test, in that he would not want someone who would say no abortion at any time. But that should be obvious, since the supreme court looks at individual cases... not issues. If a judge says "I do this always" then they are not fit to judge. His statement making it directly abortion was because he was asked directly about abortion.

As far as the Freedom of Choice Act, pardon me if I have not read that act, and so I can't speak on it. I will say that I also have not heard him say this was his planned first act. And I doubt it will roll back everything. I somewhat think that is an exaggeration.

But we will have to see.

[gadgetlady 4]

Here’s some information on Obama and the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA):

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__ctD48nfQ]YouTube - Barack Obama, Planned Parenthood, and FOCA[/ame]

FOCA was brought to the Senate by Barbara Boxer and calls for, among other things, federal funding of abortion, a ban on providing fetal development information to mothers, a ban on parental notification laws, and a ban on laws requiring that the only ones able to perform abortions are licensed doctors.

[stevegoad 32]

Oh... that clarifies it.

Nothing personal, but if the best you can do is put a commercial made spefically with the purpose to make Obama look like a mad abortionist, with 1/2 a sentence from Obama, given to a Planned Parenthood Rally, without context, then it means nothing.

[gadgetlady 4]

Nothing personal, but if the best you can do is put a commercial made spefically with the purpose to make Obama look like a mad abortionist, with 1/2 a sentence from Obama, given to a Planned Parenthood Rally, without context, then it means nothing.

The "best I can do"? Are you saying Obama didn't actually say what he was videotaped saying? Or because the commercial was put out by pro-lifers, therefore his videotaped saying of it is somehow suspect?

He was asked a question at a Planned Parenthood speech he was giving. He said that the first thing he would do as President is sign FOCA. Gosh, I guess because the clip is part of a pro-life commercial, there's no reason to believe he actually intended to say what he actually said.

There are plenty of other sources documenting what he said that are not pro-life commercials. Feel free to enter the key words in a search and you'll find a plethora of them. It's obvious you don't trust pro-lifers; I'm sure you can find a pro-abortion group that is happy he said the first thing he would do as President is sign FOCA. Maybe you'll believe them.

[stevegoad 32]

I did see a longer segment... He can't "first thing" sign the freedom of choice act if it doesn't come before him from congress.

But more importantly, he was saying that in response to the question "what would you do to rollback the changes that have come." That was the expected answer. I doubt he would stand before Planned Parenthood and say "I won't do anything because I can't constitutionally change what the courts have said."

In essence, considering his audience, the question, and some context, it's an expected answer, and one that means little.

[stevegoad 32]

It's obvious you don't trust pro-lifers; I'm sure you can find a pro-abortion group that is happy he said the first thing he would do as President is sign FOCA. Maybe you'll believe them.

No, I don't trust people who take comments out of context.

As I said, I am basically pro-life. Second and Third trimester abortions should only be done in the case of a mother's life, and if they are truly life threatening, then they need to be done in hospitals.

BTW>>> Before I am called, my first attempt to simply state a couple of general facts without making debate points failed. I am sorry for going back on my pledge to leave the political debates until after the election.

[gadgetlady 4]

I did see a longer segment... He can't "first thing" sign the freedom of choice act if it doesn't come before him from congress.

Well duh. Of course he can't sign it unless it's brought before him.

In essence, considering his audience, the question, and some context, it's an expected answer, and one that means little.

Are you saying he didn't mean it?

You said that Obama's abortion stance will change little on the issue legislatively. I said it would; see his stance on FOCA and look at what that specific act will do to abortion-on-demand, parental notification, partial-birth arbortion, etc. You then said you knew nothing about FOCA so I gave you some information (albeit brief). Now you seem to be saying that Obama didn't really mean what he said when he addressed Planned Parenthood (that it "means little").

If, when a politician says something concrete, we can't believe him, how will we ever know what he really means? I think we should take Obama at his word on this. He was pretty darn clear.

[gadgetlady 4]

No, I don't trust people who take comments out of context.

It wasn't taken out of context!!! Yes, it was in the context of a delivery of an entire pro-abortion speech, but there is nothing whatsoever deceptive about what that commercial said! Obama himself has never gone back and claimed that he would not sign FOCA or that the statement was taken out of context. I'm amazed that you are claiming that it was.

[stevegoad 32]

"Read my lips... no new taxes."

"You won't have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore."

"We have won the war."

"I did not have relations with that woman..."

Politicians always make concrete statements. Oh well.

[gadgetlady 4]

Well then why vote at all, if we can't take the words of what any politician says to be their true intent? Obama has been 100% clear on the issue of abortion. 110% clear. 200% clear. He believes in abortion on-demand through 9 months of pregnancy for any reason at all, federally funded by the government, and with zero restrictions. If you're OK with that, that's fine. But don't try to claim that that's not his position, because it is and even he does not deny it.

[BethFromVA 5]

I never believe them when they promise anything. I always believe them, however, when they threaten to do things like bankrupt industries and spread the wealth. Usually works out to be more correct that way.

[stevegoad 32]

OK... I'm backing out.

I do know that, on the issue of abortion I disagee with Obama, and I am not convinced that he has a great economic plan.

I don't necessarily agree with Obama. I don't agree with McCain on the war, the death penalty or gun control, and I am definilty not convinced about his economic plan.

I am not going to try to convince anyone that they need to go against their moral convictions.

So how are those diets going?

[gadgetlady 4]

I always believe them, however, when they threaten to do things like bankrupt industries and spread the wealth. Usually works out to be more correct that way.

Ain't that the truth.

[pattygreen 5]

You say you were a pastor and you don't have a problem with first trimester abortions? Maybe you should read exodus 21:22-25

[stevegoad 32]

I've read Exodus. Also Jeremiah (while you were in your mother's womb, I knew you).

I've also held the hand of a 13 year old girl who was pregnant and homeless because her parents disowned her for her action. She was not fit to be a parent. And for the record, I tried to convince her to give it up for adoption. She wasn't ready for that.

So it is not my first choice, but it is a choice that I think should be legal.

And please don't question my faith or my work as a pastor. You don't know me that well, and if you continue, I might just have to pray for you.