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Calories per day at 6+ months post op



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14 hours ago, RickM said:

I am somewhat suspicious of programs that ramp up calories on a schedule over time, as our natural inclination is for weight loss to decline over time as we get lighter - we naturally burn fewer calories as we have less weight we are moving around 24/7.

Agreed.

Further to this, Arbitrarily assigning a set caloric level at a set date to all patients does not take into account each individual's weight, height, other physiological aspects into account. If one patient is 6 feet tall and 250 lbs at the 6 month mark, and another is 5 feet tall and 170 lbs...why would they both be prescribed the same caloric level goal?

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3 hours ago, ms.sss said:

Agreed.

Further to this, Arbitrarily assigning a set caloric level at a set date to all patients does not take into account each individual's weight, height, other physiological aspects into account. If one patient is 6 feet tall and 250 lbs at the 6 month mark, and another is 5 feet tall and 170 lbs...why would they both be prescribed the same caloric level goal?

I do agree with that. My dietician was taking into account my height, current weight, muscle mass, body fat percentage, etc. After measuring all of those things, that’s when she suggested moving up to 1100-1200 calories per day.

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2 hours ago, ASampson said:

I do agree with that. My dietician was taking into account my height, current weight, muscle mass, body fat percentage, etc. After measuring all of those things, that’s when she suggested moving up to 1100-1200 calories per day.

Sounds like you got your hands on one of the "better" dietitians! All WLS affiliated dietitians/NUTs really should tailor their recommendations to EACH INDIVIDUAL (mine did not).

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I am always interested in the comments on expected calorie intake. I am of the opinion this is a marathon and not a sprint. I am just over 3 weeks post op and I am changing my weighing to once a month, with even a small loss being a win. My dietician and surgeon both said eating is now for nutrition and not hunger. They have given me guidelines that I stick with. If in doubt, have another check in with your dietician to get advice and let them know your concerns.

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8 hours ago, ms.sss said:

Sounds like you got your hands on one of the "better" dietitians! All WLS affiliated dietitians/NUTs really should tailor their recommendations to EACH INDIVIDUAL (mine did not).

I actually agree with this a lot. I'm just not sure those that had their calories upped would necessarily listen to that advice, if you know what I mean. We obviously suffer from a whole life of "hey, I'm losing weight, let's do it m o a r" because there's a learned experience of it going away at some point.

Again, this is my whole point: the mental side of things. We keep talking about physical variables, and at least in some cases it's clearly cover for mental and emotional issues. Which I understand the reasoning behind, and I'm not saying there has to be a mental health warning on a forever-600 cals-a-day diet. I'm just not convinced that's an effective long-term plan for anyone.

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4 hours ago, OAGBPal said:

I'm just not sure those that had their calories upped would necessarily listen to that advice, if you know what I mean. We obviously suffer from a whole life of "hey, I'm losing weight, let's do it m o a r" because there's a learned experience of it going away at some point.

Full disclosure: I am one of those people who didn't listen to my Dietitian's advice to up my cals to 1000-1200 at 3 months (and told her so). I always showed her my food logs anyway and she always responded with a version of "you should really eat more". I do realize though that this is just not a safe/healthy/good-habit-promoting strategy. And I cannot in good conscience recommend disregarding medical advice outright without discussion with them.

4 hours ago, OAGBPal said:

I'm not saying there has to be a mental health warning on a forever-600 cals-a-day diet. I'm just not convinced that's an effective long-term plan for anyone.

Actually, I think there SHOULD be a warning for a 600 cal a day diet, both mental AND physical. Living on so little cals for an extended period of time WILL have its repercussions.

I also want to say that a FOREVER diet of 600 cals a day is certainly a slow walk to an early death. Even if its not forever, and say a couple years, that just can't be good to both your body and your mind.

I did a sub-750 cal a day for 7 months. I knew it wasn't forever. In terms of weight loss, yay. In terms of the mental aspect, I *think* I came out pretty unscathed (except maybe for this self-diagnosed food fetish I developed, as well as the unnatural fear of carbs I had immediately after stopping trying to lose weight...of which I am pretty much over now). I don't believe I would have been able to do sub-750 daily beyond a year mark (or not even) safely (mentally & physically). Could anyone?

P.S. I'm 2+ years post now and my cal level is about 1800, more if I exercise more (of which again I'm not listening to my dietitian cuz she said I shouldn't go over 1500).

Edited by ms.sss

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54 minutes ago, ms.sss said:

Full disclosure: I am one of those people who didn't listen to my Dietitian's advice to up my cals to 1000-1200 at 3 months (and told her so). I always showed her my food logs anyway and she always responded with a version of "you should really eat more". I do realize though that this is just not a safe/healthy/good-habit-promoting strategy. And I cannot in good conscience recommend disregarding medical advice outright without discussion with them.

Actually, I think there SHOULD be a warning for a 600 cal a day diet, both mental AND physical. Living on so little cals for an extended period of time WILL have its repercussions.

I also want to say that a FOREVER diet of 600 cals a day is certainly a slow walk to an early death. Even if its not forever, and say a couple years, that just can't be good to both your body and your mind.

I did a sub-750 cal a day for 7 months. I knew it wasn't forever. In terms of weight loss, yay. In terms of the mental aspect, I *think* I came out pretty unscathed (except maybe for this self-diagnosed food fetish I developed, as well as the unnatural fear of carbs I had immediately after stopping trying to lose weight...of which I am pretty much over now). I don't believe I would have been able to do sub-750 daily beyond a year mark (or not even) safely (mentally & physically). Could anyone?

P.S. I'm 2+ years post now and my cal level is about 1800, more if I exercise more (of which again I'm not listening to my dietitian cuz she said I shouldn't go over 1500).

Thanks for all the great insights. I think I'm just listening and learning and trying to get a hold of my own take on all this, to be honest. I guess we all are, to an extent ;)

And honestly, my fat free mass right now is probably 30-70% higher than what yours was when you were in the beginning (it's 195 lbs today, just had it measured), so who am I to talk when I have days of 1,050 cals, too. BMR vs. calorie intake it probably comes out about the same? The reason my goal isn't 220 is that I'm under no illusion that I won't lose muscle during this process; I already have (not percentage wise, but in lbs).

For me, it's all about the long-term regain risk. I'd seriously feel handicapped if I ended up in a situation where I'd gain weight at, say, 1,800 cals a day. It really sounds like you did it right - use the opportunity when it presents itself (first months, year) and then focus on health. That inspires me!

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My information was not tailored to the individual either. They don’t actually give calorie ranges, just macro ranges. For myself I asked and she said for my soft food stage I’m currently in (their soft food is basically all foods you tolerate besides crunchy) was 700-900. I don’t eat that much just because there isn’t room.

My facility incorporates carbs, low carb options as well. So I have had a tortilla (snack size low carb which is 3g) and is nice to feel like I’m eating “bread” product. I don’t want to fear carbs, but I do avoid the ones I feel would lead me down a rabbit hole. (Like Cereal, it’s just the devil for me)

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2 hours ago, OAGBPal said:

Thanks for all the great insights. I think I'm just listening and learning and trying to get a hold of my own take on all this, to be honest. I guess we all are, to an extent ;)

And honestly, my fat free mass right now is probably 30-70% higher than what yours was when you were in the beginning (it's 195 lbs today, just had it measured), so who am I to talk when I have days of 1,050 cals, too. BMR vs. calorie intake it probably comes out about the same? The reason my goal isn't 220 is that I'm under no illusion that I won't lose muscle during this process; I already have (not percentage wise, but in lbs).

For me, it's all about the long-term regain risk. I'd seriously feel handicapped if I ended up in a situation where I'd gain weight at, say, 1,800 cals a day. It really sounds like you did it right - use the opportunity when it presents itself (first months, year) and then focus on health. That inspires me!

I set my initial weight goals based upon the gross assumption that all my loss would be fat, and needed to get to a healthy body composition, and then reworked that as I got closer and got better figures on what was actually happening (hey, we engineers do that all the time, making assumptions to get us in the ball park, and then circling around to get a closer solution as more information is gathered.) As it turned out, I lost about 10 lb of lean mass in the process and adjusted the scale weight goal accordingly; the body composition goals remained the same (for me, a mid-teens fat percentage, which is on the leaner side of normal for men, depending upon whose chart one uses.)

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4 hours ago, OAGBPal said:

Thanks for all the great insights. I think I'm just listening and learning and trying to get a hold of my own take on all this, to be honest. I guess we all are, to an extent ;)

And honestly, my fat free mass right now is probably 30-70% higher than what yours was when you were in the beginning (it's 195 lbs today, just had it measured), so who am I to talk when I have days of 1,050 cals, too. BMR vs. calorie intake it probably comes out about the same? The reason my goal isn't 220 is that I'm under no illusion that I won't lose muscle during this process; I already have (not percentage wise, but in lbs).

For me, it's all about the long-term regain risk. I'd seriously feel handicapped if I ended up in a situation where I'd gain weight at, say, 1,800 cals a day. It really sounds like you did it right - use the opportunity when it presents itself (first months, year) and then focus on health. That inspires me!

Can you explain a little more about BMR vs. calories please? I’m a newbie when it comes to some of this stuff. I think that’s why I so panicked about upping my calories to 1100-1200. 😝

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5 hours ago, OAGBPal said:

BMR vs. calorie intake it probably comes out about the same?

@OAGBPal:

Oooooohhhh....MATH & SPREADSHEET time! I'm not an engineer, just a comp sci geek, but I love me some math & spreadsheets (don't judge me).

I always sorta cringe inwardly when I read posts of us comparing number of calories consumed and total lbs lost without taking other factors into account....specifically BMI (there are other factors, but those are beyond the scope of this post). Long ago I tried to push the math of this but I sensed all the virtual eyes of the collective glazing over, so I didn't push it further. But since you seem data-friendly, I present to you this (the fruits of my anality and boredom):

I took the liberty of pulling your stats from your profile, and looked up my stats at 2 months post op to do a side by side comparison:

255619167_ScreenShot2021-01-28at2_50_19PM.thumb.png.71f7d9812d8c12c51968629f928530a1.png

**note: my LMM data was recorded at 2 months, 3 weeks...but close enough!)

First the obvious: You are a good foot taller than I am, and weighed roughly 30% more than me on our respective surgery dates (Plus you're male and I'm not)

While we started off at at a 5-point spread in BMI, at the two month mark, we were reeeeeally close in percentage of BMI points lost (m-17% vs o-16%)

Your lean muscle mass percentage at 2 months vs mine at 2 months is higher by 13%. So technically, I was fatter than you.

Now, what's not so obvious is that while I was consuming 500 cals at two months and you 1200, if we factor in just total LMM, the difference of calories per lb of LMM is 1.3 calories. Which, when applied to our respective spread in LMM, amounts to 133 calories a day.

So that means, based on our makeup of LMM, I was just eating the equivalent of little over 1 tbsp of butter a day more than what you are eating.

And when you take into consideration the fact that you are bigger/taller/higher LLM than me at 2 months, that difference of a tablespoon of butter is all but eliminated (if not more) as your BMR is likely way higher than mine was. You burn more calories just existing than I did. Plus you're a man and your metabolic rate is likely more efficient than mine.

Sooooooo....when people are shocked with the number of calories me and others eat/ate, consider the context. Context is KING. QUEEN.

Ta-da!

Added Notes: of course, this is a very simplistic view of it all and assumes that we have the same BMR, exercise habits, medical conditions, etc. etc., But you get the point, I hope.

P.S. I also hope I didn't make YOUR eyes glaze over...lolololzzzzz

Edited by ms.sss

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4 minutes ago, ms.sss said:

@OAGBPal:

Oooooohhhh....MATH & SPREADSHEET time! I'm not an engineer, just a comp sci geek, but I love me some math & spreadsheets (don't judge me).

I always sorta cringe inwardly when I read posts of us comparing number of calories consumed and total lbs lost without taking other factors into account....specifically BMI (there are other factors, but those are beyond the scope of this post). Long ago I tried to push the math of this but I sensed all the virtual eyes of the collective glazing over, so I didn't push it further. But since you seem data-friendly, I present to you this (the fruits of my anality and boredom):

I took the liberty of pulling your stats from your profile, and looked up my stats at 2 months post op to do a side by side comparison:

255619167_ScreenShot2021-01-28at2_50_19PM.thumb.png.71f7d9812d8c12c51968629f928530a1.png

First the obvious: You are a good foot taller than I am, and weighed roughly 30% more than me on our respective surgery dates (Plus you're male and I'm not)

While we started off at at a 5-point spread in BMI, at the two month mark, we were reeeeeally close in percentage of BMI points lost (m-17% vs o-16%)

Your lean muscle mass percentage at 2 months vs mine at 2 months is higher by 13%. So technically, I was fatter than you.

Now, what's not so obvious is that while I was consuming 500 cals at two months and you 1200, if we factor in just total LMM, the difference of calories per lb of LMM is 1.3 calories. Which, when applied to our respective spread in LMM, amounts to 133 calories.

So that means, based on our makeup of LMM, I was just eating the equivalent of little over 1 tbsp of butter a day more than what you are eating.

And when you take into consideration the fact that you are bigger/taller/higher LLM than me at 2 months, that difference of a tablespoon of butter is all but eliminated (if not more) as your BMR is likely way higher than mine was. You burn more calories just existing than I did. Plus you're a man and your metabolic rate is likely more efficient than mine.

Sooooooo....when people are shocked with the number of calories me and others eat/ate, consider the context. Context is KING. QUEEN.

Ta-da!

Added Notes: of course, this is a very simplistic view of it all and assumes that we have the same BMR, exercise habits, medical conditions, etc. etc., But you get the point, I hope.

P.S. I also hope I didn't make YOUR eyes glaze over...lolololzzzzz

Ms.Ss would you please do a chart like that for me too? My stats are up to date. It would be much appreciated!! ☺️

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11 minutes ago, ms.sss said:

@OAGBPal:

Oooooohhhh....MATH & SPREADSHEET time! I'm not an engineer, just a comp sci geek, but I love me some math & spreadsheets (don't judge me).

I always sorta cringe inwardly when I read posts of us comparing number of calories consumed and total lbs lost without taking other factors into account....specifically BMI (there are other factors, but those are beyond the scope of this post). Long ago I tried to push the math of this but I sensed all the virtual eyes of the collective glazing over, so I didn't push it further. But since you seem data-friendly, I present to you this (the fruits of my anality and boredom):

I took the liberty of pulling your stats from your profile, and looked up my stats at 2 months post op to do a side by side comparison:

255619167_ScreenShot2021-01-28at2_50_19PM.thumb.png.71f7d9812d8c12c51968629f928530a1.png

**note: my LMM data was recorded at 2 months, 3 weeks...but close enough!)

First the obvious: You are a good foot taller than I am, and weighed roughly 30% more than me on our respective surgery dates (Plus you're male and I'm not)

While we started off at at a 5-point spread in BMI, at the two month mark, we were reeeeeally close in percentage of BMI points lost (m-17% vs o-16%)

Your lean muscle mass percentage at 2 months vs mine at 2 months is higher by 13%. So technically, I was fatter than you.

Now, what's not so obvious is that while I was consuming 500 cals at two months and you 1200, if we factor in just total LMM, the difference of calories per lb of LMM is 1.3 calories. Which, when applied to our respective spread in LMM, amounts to 133 calories a day.

So that means, based on our makeup of LMM, I was just eating the equivalent of little over 1 tbsp of butter a day more than what you are eating.

And when you take into consideration the fact that you are bigger/taller/higher LLM than me at 2 months, that difference of a tablespoon of butter is all but eliminated (if not more) as your BMR is likely way higher than mine was. You burn more calories just existing than I did. Plus you're a man and your metabolic rate is likely more efficient than mine.

Sooooooo....when people are shocked with the number of calories me and others eat/ate, consider the context. Context is KING. QUEEN.

Ta-da!

Added Notes: of course, this is a very simplistic view of it all and assumes that we have the same BMR, exercise habits, medical conditions, etc. etc., But you get the point, I hope.

P.S. I also hope I didn't make YOUR eyes glaze over...lolololzzzzz

This.

Wins.

The.

Internet.

Let's pretend for a second I went to grad school for finance and let's also pretend I look at my WL graphs several times a day, mostly because they're just so pretty. I freakin' love this!!! Must've taken you forever :)

Seriously, though. Thanks so much. It's pretty eye opening. I hope others enjoy this as much as I do!

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2 hours ago, ASampson said:

Ms.Ss would you please do a chart like that for me too? My stats are up to date. It would be much appreciated!! ☺️

Hi @ASampson...i can definitely do that, but I would need to know your Lean Muscle Mass (either in lbs or as a percentage of total body weight). Do you know it?

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