How does the Sleeve fail?

I had the band from 2009 till 2017. She slipped after a bad case of flu/stomach bug. The only unfill i had was when i had my TT. I was back at 10.5cc in her when she slipped. Till then i had zero problems. SW 232, removal weight 143.

After much research and searching, i found a dr here where i live to do a revision (2.5 years later & 30lbs). I revised to the sleeve. I see people on here saying that the sleeve failed. How does that happen???? I mean i know how the band can fail..... erosion, slip, removing all the fill and going back to old habits. But how when its something that's permanent?

Chris

Good question and I'm following this as well as a recent sleeve patient!

1 hour ago, BayougirlMrsS said:

How does the Sleeve fail?

I had the band from 2009 till 2017. She slipped after a bad case of flu/stomach bug. The only unfill i had was when i had my TT. I was back at 10.5cc in her when she slipped. Till then i had zero problems. SW 232, removal weight 143.

After much research and searching, i found a dr here where i live to do a revision (2.5 years later & 30lbs). I revised to the sleeve. I see people on here saying that the sleeve failed. How does that happen???? I mean i know how the band can fail..... erosion, slip, removing all the fill and going back to old habits. But how when its something that's permanent?

Chris

The sleeve doesn’t fail. It’s mechanical.

The surgery is a tool, nothing more. If you still eat like crap, the sleeve will fail. If you snack all day long on calorie dense food, the sleeve will fail. If you drink caloric drinks, the sleeve will fail.

Edit: Just to clarify, if you're talking about "stretching" your sleeve will never stretch more than 10-15% from the size that it was surgically changed to. There is a lot of research to back this up. So if someone tells you they stretched their sleeve back out, and thats how they gained the weight, they're not being truthful with you in all likelihood.

Edited November 8, 20196 yr by VSGDavid

20 minutes ago, VSGDavid said:

The sleeve doesn’t fail. It’s mechanical.

The surgery is a tool, nothing more. If you still eat like crap, the sleeve will fail. If you snack all day long on calorie dense food, the sleeve will fail. If you drink caloric drinks, the sleeve will fail.

Edit: Just to clarify, if you're talking about "stretching" your sleeve will never stretch more than 10-15% from the size that it was surgically changed to. There is a lot of research to back this up. So if someone tells you they stretched their sleeve back out, and thats how they gained the weight, they're not being truthful with you in all likelihood.

This is good and I hope it's all true!

I see people saying that their "sleeve" failed and i was just wondering how that happens. I appreciate what you said. I figured as much, but seeing as though im new to the sleeve (x-bandmember) i wanted to see if there was other reasons.

I've had two friends regain after the sleeve. I see how they eat and i figured it was those very reasons. And i didn't want to be that friend that say..... Should you be eating that?

I loved my band and wish i still had her, but i had a good long haul with her..... 7+ years.

Thanks,

Chris

Completely agree with everything that's been said. It's all about sticking to your plan. You've done the band so you've made the lifestyle change. Just keep it up and you'll be fine :-)

Not a failure, so to speak, but you can get terrible reflux* or hernia.

*One study shows 20% to 31% incidence of post-op new reflux https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23238373

*Another says only 1.1% need something other than PPIs to deal with the reflux https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19949885

I added this to the" revision... omg" page but ill add it here too

This is from a surgeon's perspective not mine.

The sleeve is not for everyone. Some people did not have the correct surgery for their needs.

(My perspective: The may have needed extreme malabsorption along with restriction because the lifestyle changes just could not last. And what to you say to people like that? Just try harder, knowing they cannot? Thats cruel. Give them better tools to do the job.)

Sleeve was originally part 1 of 2 of the Switch (DS) but it worked so well some people never needed to have part 2. Then insurance companies allowed it to be billed as a stand alone procedure. But that didnt mean everyone should have stopped at part 1, some people needed to go forward with part 2.

When regain happens (Goodbye honeymoon phase) its seen as their fault instead of noncompletion of the process. Shame and guilt adds fuel to the fire and getting insurance companies to cover the "revision" without a complication is an epic battle.

Also structurally (VSG or any WLS) is not infallible. Many things can go wrong immediately or even years down the line.

*Disclaimer not pointing any fingers at anyone or this thread at all but perhaps the caste system the entire WLS community has created?*

IMHO I think its easy and possibly careless to forget that we all (here) needed some level of intervention from WLS after we are successful. It becomes problematic to believe if do everything absolutely correctly (maybe even the first time) some cosmic merit/lottery/award will be paid out for all of our hard work.

And those that need more help are getting off easy. Not everyone will lose or maintain 100 % excess weight let alone 65% & the surgeons will tell us this but we ignore it constantly. Sometimes it just doesn't work like in the books no matter what/who's at fault

I have learned to mind my business big time because if someone goes through hell and back, the doctors & insurance companies open the pearly gates then they must have their reasons.

Apologies for the length

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by GreenTealael

Yes I believe there is usually other factors as to why the wls didn't work....

I guess the surgeon may have not made the sleeve the correct size. I would save after having the sleeve 4 months ago it would be what you eat and drink. With the sleeve you can physically eat anything so if you make bad choices and eat often you can gain. It only restricts how much you eat in one sitting so you could still eat many times a day or be eating all slider foods like ice creams and puddings anything that will keep going through and gain. I would say it’s all about choices.

You guys have been very helpful. I will be the first to admit i didn't do 100% the research i did with the Band. I went in that WLS very knowledgable... This i thought i knew a lot about the sleeve but when i came back on the site and saw all the people having another WLS because the sleeve "didn't work" i started to doubt if i had made the right choice to revise to the sleeve.

So i'm going to do what i know works. Eat my portions, watch what i eat and how i eat it. and exercise as much as possible.

Dr. Matthew Weiner explains better than anyone how weight loss surgery works. Spoiler alert: neuro hormonal axis.

Common weight loss surgery Myths

Here is another video of him discussing the unimportance and misunderstanding of “stretching your sleeve”

Sleeve/ pouch stretching

I'm one who considers that seems my sleeve has 'failed' :(.

I was sleeved on 6/21/19, HW216, SW 209, CW 178, so total weight loss including pre-op liquid phase = 38 lbs. I belong to a couple of FB groups, and when I post my concerns with such slow weight loss, the pat response is "trust the process" and "have patience". I log on myfitnesspal every calorie I ingest. I follow my doctor/nutritionist guideline of about 1000-1100 calories/day. Protein first and foremost, very little carb or sugar. I've always drank only water & 2 cups of coffee a day. I brisk walk and move more than ever (I was a couch potato pre-op).

My weight log shows I've lost 17 lbs in 4 months. The bulk of my 38 lb loss was during pre-op & post-op liquid diet. I've only lost 3 lbs in the last 2 months.

I was so super excited for this surgery. Took seriously my 6 months prep, did my research, understood and didn't expect this to be a 'magic cure'. But didn't think I'd be losing only less than 1/2 lb a week by month 3! Help, I'm losing hope and really worry ~ maybe doctor didn't really sleeve me? Maybe he only repaired my hernia?

1 hour ago, Honi said:

I'm one who considers that seems my sleeve has 'failed' :(.

I was sleeved on 6/21/19, HW216, SW 209, CW 178, so total weight loss including pre-op liquid phase = 38 lbs. I belong to a couple of FB groups, and when I post my concerns with such slow weight loss, the pat response is "trust the process" and "have patience". I log on myfitnesspal every calorie I ingest. I follow my doctor/nutritionist guideline of about 1000-1100 calories/day. Protein first and foremost, very little carb or sugar. I've always drank only Water & 2 cups of coffee a day. I brisk walk and move more than ever (I was a couch potato pre-op).

My weight log shows I've lost 17 lbs in 4 months. The bulk of my 38 lb loss was during pre-op & post-op liquid diet. I've only lost 3 lbs in the last 2 months.

I was so super excited for this surgery. Took seriously my 6 months prep, did my research, understood and didn't expect this to be a 'magic cure'. But didn't think I'd be losing only less than 1/2 lb a week by month 3! Help, I'm losing hope and really worry ~ maybe doctor didn't really sleeve me? Maybe he only repaired my hernia?

You may need to start a new thread looking for help. (But it helps to be super specific about the types of help you do and don't want to receive ?)

On 11/10/2019 at 11:40 AM, Midnightsun said:

I guess the surgeon may have not made the sleeve the correct size.

I was watching a video by a weight loss surgeon from Perth, Western Australia. I found a point he made quite interesting. After doing a review of the number of revisions he had done on his patients, he thought that he was using a too large a bougie size for them, now he goes smaller and the revisions have reduced substantially.