Has anyone given Intermittent Fasting a try for long periods after surgery. I'm really interested. Not so much for the weight loss, that would be nice too but I'm still early out, but more to place focus on hydration , erasing whatever amount of ghrelin that has returned and feed schedule/pattern forming.

Interesting video explaining what I am specifically talking about, please watch before responding

https://youtu.be/tIuj-oMN-Fk

You should google the studies/work of Dr. Walter Long (think he's out of USC)? And also Krista Varady. I think Dr. Chang is also very actively pursuing the studies on longevity. The all revolve around the Sirtuan SIRT genes and restoration of telomere length.

Dr. Longo is a normie/normal weight dude and still does IF/ADF. He does it to promote longevity.

7 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

So I found a plan: Dr. Johnson's Alternate Day Diet (based on a lot of the research from Walter Longo, Krista Varady, et al and it was one of the original alternate day fasting diets with caloric restriction that came to the public. He's a doc out of LSU. And they found it helped their asthma patients, and helped with wl too. So I added it to my low carb principle. I'd lost from 325 to 160lb doing Atkins '72. But I'd been stuck for years at 160lbs. Nothing I did could budge it. I'd go up or down within a few pounds. My bloodwork was amazing, but I was stuck. I added it into the mix and started losing. I'd lost 30lbs when they discovered my breat cancer. Well I immediately said, "Fu*k It All!" And I went on my "Make-a-wish Diet" where I ate ALL. THE. CRAP. and I waited for all of my test results and to get into an amazing oncologist. It took a little over 2mons. In that time, I had a 25lb regain eating my MAW diet. And the oncologist was horrified. Cuz that can make cancer grow quickly (gaining after dx). So he said to get back on it. And I fasted all through chemo and radiation. I essentially went from 260lbs down through chemo, 1st surgery, radiation and lost to 218lbs. Incidentally, the chemo + fasting did something my onc had never witnessed. I had a high grade aggressive tumor that is historically a "lazy eater" of neo-adjuvant chemotherapy. Meaning chemo will shrink the tumors a little bit, and stop/alter the cells...but you don't usually see complete remission or regression. They saw that my tumors shrank 60% with neoadjuvant chemo. And the path report showed that although there were some remaining living cells within my 12 lymph nodes (1 had pierced the node)--all the cancer cells showed genetic modification by the chemo which is unusual. So the research shows this to be true...fasting during chemo can be protective of healthy cells and helps boost the effectiveness of chemo and radiation.

When I got down to 218lbs they worried about my radiation levels and I was getting huge burns/open wounds. So they told me to stop losing. I went back to a "more normal" Zone style diet 30-30-40. And maintained for a few months. Then after all my reconstructions and healings slowly began to regain up to my most recent 287lbs. The onc was freaking out and tried for 2 years to talk me into WLS. I resisted and pretended I didn't notice the weight gain, even though by that time, I was essentially bed-ridden. (I'm still on a cancer drug and will be on it for 10 years total. It puts me in "super-menopause" and shuts down my hormones as much as possible. So I'm extremely hormone deficient/imbalanced.)

I haven't been doing alternate day fasting anymore. But yeah, you might be able to say I've been doing IF, cuz you know, at 650-850, I'm already in de facto keto from calorie reduction--a form of fasting, and I'm living in a full-time calorie restricted state. So I find no reason to add even more alternate day IF into the mix at this point, until I'm at a more normal maintenance level caloric load. Although, I do naturally fast for 12-14 hours (with breaking the fast with 3oz of Premier Protein in my coffee each day). So you could theoretically claim using your definition, that I've been IF since May 2017 when I weighed 287lbs. LOL. I get up, have Protein in my coffee as Creamer. Then I eat Breakfast between 10-11am. I stop eating around 8-9pm. Today I weigh 164.6lbs.

Sorry for the book!!

No its good to hear context, a lot of people assume you're obese simply because you over eat. Obesity is not one size fits all. At least not the road in or out. Glad cancer is gone, glad you went though with surgery and its working, you'll break that 160 barrier in no time flat!

1 minute ago, GreenTealael said:

No its good to hear context, a lot of people assume you're obese simply because you over eat. Obesity is not one size fits all. At least not the road in or out. Glad cancer is gone, glad you went though with surgery and its working, you'll break that 160 barrier in no time flat!

Sorry! That's a typo in my history. I was stuck at 260lbs. LOL. Not 160lbs. I haven't been 160 since 20 years ago. LOL. Will go correct it.

1 minute ago, FluffyChix said:

You should google the studies/work of Dr. Walter Long (think he's out of USC)? And also Krista Varady. I think Dr. Chang is also very actively pursuing the studies on longevity. The all revolve around the Sirtuan SIRT genes and restoration of telomere length.

Dr. Longo is a normie/normal weight dude and still does IF/ADF. He does it to promote longevity.

A few of these I have seen, when they began the studies years ago I never considered fasting for weight loss although it was clear the lower body mass was a contributor... Gotta be quicker these days lol

1 minute ago, FluffyChix said:

Sorry! That's a typo in my history. I was stuck at 260lbs. LOL. Not 160lbs. I haven't been 160 since 20 years ago. LOL. Will go correct it.

Lol then your really about to break barriers!!! Congrats

I have recently moved to 20:4 fasting with proper technique , although I use stevia, I will let everyone know what happens with weight loss the next time I'm weighed (l only weight at doctor's appointments, don't have one for a while)

So far appetite is severely diminished. I could convert to OMAD no problem, but now I worry about hitting macro goals doing that. We will see how long I can sustain this style, then return to 18:6, 16:8 for longer term lifestyle.

Drink choices during fasting hours are water, variety of green teas, ceremonial matcha,

Drink choices during non fasting hours are water w/ true lemon water enhancer, matcha w/ protein shake , coffee w/protein shake

My friends did this and one lost over 50 lbs and I think the other did similarly.

I’ve done intermittent fasting before and it always has great results for me. I think what a lot of people forget is it’s not a free for all in the 8 hours you eat. You still need to follow a strict caloric guideline or there’s no point.

45 minutes ago, msauerbrei said:

I’ve done intermittent fasting before and it always has great results for me. I think what a lot of people forget is it’s not a free for all in the 8 hours you eat. You still need to follow a strict caloric guideline or there’s no point.

Very very true,

No danger of that now, my post of diet eat/drinking schedule is still strict during the non fasting times. Im still fully on plan also, not excessively hungry, Its not bad tbh.

9 hours ago, GreenTealael said:

Very very true,

No danger of that now, my post of diet eat/drinking schedule is still strict during the non fasting times. Im still fully on plan also, not excessively hungry, Its not bad tbh.

How do you get in enough protein in 4 hours? I can't wrap my head around that.

Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like iron-clad never deviate scheduling, perhaps I'm just a laissis-faire person.

22 minutes ago, Orchids&Dragons said:

How do you get in enough Protein in 4 hours? I can't wrap my head around that.

Inquiring minds. I'm pretty sure the body can't assimilate 60-80g of protein per day within a 4 hour window and if you do, you're pushing your insulin needs up very high. Because each gram of protein carries with it, the need for a basic level of insulin. So it's like giving yourself a BIG push of protein at one or two feedings.

I think 16:8 is very doable, especially if your quantities are approaching semi-normal size for a skinny person.

40 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

Inquiring minds. I'm pretty sure the body can't assimilate 60-80g of Protein per day within a 4 hour window and if you do, you're pushing your insulin needs up very high. Because each gram of protein carries with it, the need for a basic level of insulin. So it's like giving yourself a BIG push of protein at one or two feedings.

I think 16:8 is very doable, especially if your quantities are approaching semi-normal size for a skinny person.

1 hour ago, Orchids&Dragons said:

How do you get in enough Protein in 4 hours? I can't wrap my head around that.

Not sure if the body can assimilate that much protein in that much time but I'm not heavily protein focused especially migrating towards full vegetarianism (I'm flexible now) and eventually veganism. Plus I'm almost 10 months out I don't think I'm at risk for protein deficiency

Breaking the fast:

Matcha w/ 5.5 oz premier 15g protein

30-60 mins later salad with eggs or chicken 12-14 g protein

60mins later coffee or match a w/ premier 15 g protein

30-60mins later rest of salad or salmon, chicken, or turkey, tofurky rye cracker sandwich, etc or more matcha w/ premier (rare) usually around 12-15 g protein

I've removed snacks, condensed timeframe ... its really not that different than just having a busy day.

20:4 is not permanent, its speed up the process, then dip back to 18:6, etc.

Edited August 29, 20187 yr by GreenTealael

Ok, so this is super bad biochemically. I don't care who you are, you can't out-snowflake basic biochem. LOL.

(Snowflake=just cuz you think you should be able to do xy or z, the rules of physics, chemistry, and biology don't apply to you. And by "you" I mean "any of us, not specifically 'you'. LOL)

Your body/pancreas/liver/et al needs between 2-4 hours to clear out the previous meal and get your blood sugar elevation back to its baseline pre-meal level. The end. Story over. LOL. That's IF you have a normal pancreas and liver not gummed up by fat, or with billions of dead beta cells, nor are you hyperinsulinemic or insulin resistant. If you are any of those, it may actually take as long as 5-6 hours for post-prandial (post meal) blood sugar to return to pre-prandial levels (pre-meal).

And it's pretty important for it to return to normal baselines. That's when it's repairing itself, and using stored food for fuel (burning fat). It's when it's the happiest and when it has the least amount of inflammation. But you are severely taxing it with your short eating windows and not allowing it to return to pre-meal levels. This will over time consistently elevate your insulin resistance, the amount of insulin your pancreas will crank out in response to a meal, and will drive your blood sugar up. If not immediately, then over time...

So here's what your schedule is doing to your blood sugar. It's causing an elevation long over 4 hours cuz you aren't giving your body time to go back to pre-meal levels between your meal windows:

M1=15g of medium acting protein (PP has casein and whey isolates so it's a quick and slow-ish acting protein=ins spike)

M2=12-14g protein (30 minutes later: rut roh rastro, your blood sugar is still in overdrive from your protein drink therefore the it will kinda act like this is all one big gigantor meal of about 30g of protein. Still not a bad thing, cuz 30g of protein is doable in a meal--especially at night.)

M3=Coffee with another 15g or protein from Premier the medium acting protein (1 hour later). So now your body is processing 45g of protein. Holy moly! It's treating it "maybe" as one huge meal cuz it's only 1 hour later and your blood sugar is still elevated from the other 2 whamtastic meals you've just dumped on your livah.) It should be hollerin' "Help me Mama! Make the bad man stop!" Cuz you know, you're not Arnold Schwarzenegger or some huge guy with huge protein needs. Your little Tealael. A normal size girl...with a daily need of 60-80g of protein no matter who you are: carnivore, omnivore, vegetable, or mineral.

M4=15g of protein (30-60minutes later). By now, your pancreas and liver are saying..."The fu*k?!!!! Is she trying to kill us?" Cuz crap. Your blood sugar is elevated by now. Your insulin is being cranked out. Your cells are saying, "Let no more insulin or food pass into this body." And now you're just gummin' up the works.

I think this is a very simplistic lay-person explanation of what is going on biochemically. There are certainly errors here cuz you know, I'm a lay person. But this seems like a very hard window for anyone to eat within and not very sound biochemically. Don't care who your ancestors are. And if you're a woman, this is doubly bad mumbo jumbo. Cuz none of us need to build our testosterone levels like males do. Historically males tend to do better from long fasts than women. Fasting in men helps drive up their androgens and stimulates the production of testosterone and HGH (human growth hormone).

Sorry for offering my 2cents girl. This just feels very disordered to me.

Edited August 29, 20187 yr by FluffyChix

On 8/20/2018 at 9:22 AM, GreenTealael said:

A few of these I have seen, when they began the studies years ago I never considered fasting for weight loss although it was clear the lower body mass was a contributor... Gotta be quicker these days lol

It's actually Dr. Walter Longo. I made a typo earlier--sorry. I've read a ton of his stuff and have done IF. We discussed it in earlier threads. You should know that his definition of calorie deprivation was like by memory somewhere around 1400 cals/day. LOL. And he's now doing short bursts of fasts over multiple days...not forevs. The body can take short bursts easier than chronic stuff.

A 4 hour window for a female with a normal tum is dicey.

Edited August 29, 20187 yr by FluffyChix