Has anyone given Intermittent Fasting a try for long periods after surgery. I'm really interested. Not so much for the weight loss, that would be nice too but I'm still early out, but more to place focus on hydration , erasing whatever amount of ghrelin that has returned and feed schedule/pattern forming.

Interesting video explaining what I am specifically talking about, please watch before responding

https://youtu.be/tIuj-oMN-Fk

7 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

It's actually Dr. Walter Longo. I made a typo earlier--sorry. I've read a ton of his stuff and have done IF. We discussed it in earlier threads. You should know that his definition of calorie deprivation was like by memory somewhere around 1400 cals/day. LOL. And he's now doing short bursts of fasts over multiple days...not forevs. The body can take short bursts easier than chronic stuff.

A 4 hour window for a female with a normal tum is dicey.

Interesting

43 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

Ok, so this is super bad biochemically. I don't care who you are, you can't out-snowflake basic biochem. LOL.

(Snowflake=just cuz you think you should be able to do xy or z, the rules of physics, chemistry, and biology don't apply to you. And by "you" I mean "any of us, not specifically 'you'. LOL)

Your body/pancreas/liver/et al needs between 2-4 hours to clear out the previous meal and get your blood sugar elevation back to its baseline pre-meal level. The end. Story over. LOL. That's IF you have a normal pancreas and liver not gummed up by fat, or with billions of dead beta cells, nor are you hyperinsulinemic or insulin resistant. If you are any of those, it may actually take as long as 5-6 hours for post-prandial (post meal) blood sugar to return to pre-prandial levels (pre-meal).

And it's pretty important for it to return to normal baselines. That's when it's repairing itself, and using stored food for fuel (burning fat). It's when it's the happiest and when it has the least amount of inflammation. But you are severely taxing it with your short eating windows and not allowing it to return to pre-meal levels. This will over time consistently elevate your insulin resistance, the amount of insulin your pancreas will crank out in response to a meal, and will drive your blood sugar up. If not immediately, then over time...

So here's what your schedule is doing to your blood sugar. It's causing an elevation long over 4 hours cuz you aren't giving your body time to go back to pre-meal levels between your meal windows:

M1=15g of medium acting Protein (PP has casein and whey isolates so it's a quick and slow-ish acting protein=ins spike)

M2=12-14g protein (30 minutes later: rut roh rastro, your blood sugar is still in overdrive from your Protein Drink therefore the it will kinda act like this is all one big gigantor meal of about 30g of protein. Still not a bad thing, cuz 30g of protein is doable in a meal--especially at night.)

M3=Coffee with another 15g or protein from Premier the medium acting protein (1 hour later). So now your body is processing 45g of protein. Holy moly! It's treating it "maybe" as one huge meal cuz it's only 1 hour later and your blood sugar is still elevated from the other 2 whamtastic meals you've just dumped on your livah.) It should be hollerin' "Help me Mama! Make the bad man stop!" Cuz you know, you're not Arnold Schwarzenegger or some huge guy with huge protein needs. Your little Tealael. A normal size girl...with a daily need of 60-80g of protein no matter who you are: carnivore, omnivore, vegetable, or mineral.

M4=15g of protein (30-60minutes later). By now, your pancreas and liver are saying..."The fu*k?!!!! Is she trying to kill us?" Cuz crap. Your blood sugar is elevated by now. Your insulin is being cranked out. Your cells are saying, "Let no more insulin or food pass into this body." And now you're just gummin' up the works.

I think this is a very simplistic lay-person explanation of what is going on biochemically. There are certainly errors here cuz you know, I'm a lay person. But this seems like a very hard window for anyone to eat within and not very sound biochemically. Don't care who your ancestors are. And if you're a woman, this is doubly bad mumbo jumbo. Cuz none of us need to build our testosterone levels like males do. Historically males tend to do better from long fasts than women. Fasting in men helps drive up their androgens and stimulates the production of testosterone and HGH (human growth hormone).

Sorry for offering my 2cents girl. This just feels very disordered to me.

Opinions are welcome, i also have the discretion to refuse them. Which part is disordered? the process, the reason,the timing, the food?

however I can clearly eliminate some of the protein (shake) from such a short window, there I will concede

I have a day or two to go before dipping back down... Keep y'all posted!

Edited August 29, 20187 yr by GreenTealael

Absolutely you can! That's the beauty of being autonomous! The disordered part is choosing to constrict to 4hours of eating.

To me, I see that maybe you are cutting food to hard to see results and that you are riding the initial "high" that comes with IF. Cuz you do get an endorphin high btw. With tons of energy. It's that feel good mood elevator that also somewhat spurs ana-peeps in anorexic food limits. Not saying you are...but it's a very subtle shift at first.

The timing is def. a tax on your body from my perspective (biochemically).

I am not sure I know your reasoning for doing this, nor does it matter. it's your reason and you're entitled to it.

Don't know if it helps to limit the shakes or not. At the end of the day, I do believe the main body of science that says your body will suffer if given insufficient protein over a long enough period of time.

I have been doing intermittent fasting by only eating between the hours of noon and 7pm for the past three weeks and love it. I drink water, caffeine free tea and coffee anytime as those do not break the fast. Personally I’ve found myself more hydrated and higher energy levels. I get all my protein in during my eating period and then give my body 16 hours of fasting time. I have had lots of issues with inflammation and breathing problems in the past and feel this has been helpful with that for me.. I’m not a doctor or scientist but so far am liking the results I’m seeing.. also have consistently continuing to loose weight no stalls since starting.

2 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

Absolutely you can! That's the beauty of being autonomous! The disordered part is choosing to constrict to 4hours of eating.

To me, I see that maybe you are cutting food to hard to see results and that you are riding the initial "high" that comes with IF. Cuz you do get an endorphin high btw. With tons of energy. It's that feel good mood elevator that also somewhat spurs ana-peeps in anorexic food limits. Not saying you are...but it's a very subtle shift at first.

The timing is def. a tax on your body from my perspective (biochemically).

I am not sure I know your reasoning for doing this, nor does it matter. it's your reason and you're entitled to it.

Don't know if it helps to limit the shakes or not. At the end of the day, I do believe the main body of science that says your body will suffer if given insufficient Protein over a long enough period of time.

Decided to move into 20:4 to kick into gear since I was doing it wrong for a while, its the quickest way without going full fast.

I have a very busy week where eating is secondary and it seemed like the best time to try the stricter method, but it's a few days no biggie (done it before full fast though... different beast)

No anorexia for me but i do appreciate the concerns, im not willing to damage my body and lose my hair lol when I've lost all the weight I already wanted to, pointless and counterproductive so no high to chase, i feel regular like all my other fasting periods throughout my life.

but I do like the freedom of not constantly worrying/thinking about eating, I do focus on hydration. I think this is a normal/non problematic lifestyle to adapt (hydrating more, eating less) also I think 72 hrs low protein absorption won't really affect me long term.

Its good to have all the science for any one else who may find the thread in time to come, I'm just chronicling my experience and as technically incorrect as it may be, its a honest one.

Edited August 29, 20187 yr by GreenTealael

My younger cousin is a sports technologist for the US Olympic Committee and was telling me how he’s been giving intermittent fasting a shot. He’s a pretty bright dude and super into nutrition and exercise- so I’d imagine there is some benefit to this intermittent fasting. He said he liked the structure it provided him.

18 hours ago, GreenTealael said:

Decided to move into 20:4 to kick into gear since I was doing it wrong for a while, its the quickest way without going full fast.

I have a very busy week where eating is secondary and it seemed like the best time to try the stricter method, but it's a few days no biggie (done it before full fast though... different beast)

No anorexia for me but i do appreciate the concerns, im not willing to damage my body and lose my hair lol when I've lost all the weight I already wanted to, pointless and counterproductive so no high to chase, i feel regular like all my other fasting periods throughout my life.

but I do like the freedom of not constantly worrying/thinking about eating, I do focus on hydration. I think this is a normal/non problematic lifestyle to adapt (hydrating more, eating less) also I think 72 hrs low Protein absorption won't really affect me long term.

Its good to have all the science for any one else who may find the thread in time to come, I'm just chronicling my experience and as technically incorrect as it may be, its a honest one.

Yeah, I hear ya. I think IF is a very useful tool. It's only when women (normies or WLpeeps) get into the 20:4 type of rotation that I start to worry for them for all the reasons I gave previously. I will be really curious to watch your journey! I'm actually going to try going back to ADF per the Dr. Johnson method. Every other day is a calorie restricted day to 500cals. It's super easy for me to get my protein in and even a good amount of veg in for 500 cals. And the alternating days are your normal diet, which I'm going to try to get up to 1100 cals. That's probably gonna be the hardest day! LOL. I am also giving up my morning Premier Proteins and going back to my black coffee and plain teas. There's honestly no reason for me to keep putting protein supps in my body. I can eat plenty per meal to take in my protein veg and fruits.

I'm going to start doing a slightly modified 8-6 format IF (you eat between 8am and 6pm) so it's a 14:10 fast/food ratio, starting this coming Monday. The modification is going to be the coffee I drink at 5ish every morning on work days. But all "food" will be consumed within the times allotted.

57 minutes ago, Matt Z said:

I'm going to start doing a slightly modified 8-6 format IF (you eat between 8am and 6pm) so it's a 14:10 fast/food ratio, starting this coming Monday. The modification is going to be the coffee I drink at 5ish every morning on work days. But all "food" will be consumed within the times allotted.

I started mine 16:8 modified with coffee or tea with premeir shake used as creamer

I'm not sure if it slowed the process down much but it was enjoyable as a process

20:4 with stricter protocol, i feel the difference

Juniors cheesecake

Sugar free low carb

290cals, 20g total carbs (0g sugar, 16g sugar alcohol,1g fiber, 3 net) 5g protein

Everyone ate some before I could take a pic lol so here's the assortment

Edited August 31, 20187 yr by GreenTealael

Resumed 16:8 protocol for eventful weekend, will resume 20:4 protocol when I return home (and occasionally) then dio down to 16:8 and I will likely stick to a 16:8 protocol for a while, I although I enjoyed the 20:4 more

What exactly is your reason for IF? Weight loss only or are there other reasons (like inflammation reduction)?

Interesting but would be concerned about getting essential daily vitamins/minerals in long term, ie need fats to absorb vitamins ADEK. I guess as long as you can maintain it and not risk stretching out your stomach

4 hours ago, summerset said:

What exactly is your reason for IF? Weight loss only or are there other reasons (like inflammation reduction)?

When I began I was curious if it could reduce/erase my hunger sensation as I think I trained myself to eat more than necessary (my NUT also asked me to lower my cals to continue weight loss) But weight loss is peripheral to me in this. I was really interested in all of the benefits that comes with focusing on hydration. I didn't realize that inflammation reduction, and all the other health benefits were possible.

1 hour ago, Reese Cerulean said:

Interesting but would be concerned about getting essential daily vitamins/minerals in long term, ie need fats to absorb Vitamins ADEK. I guess as long as you can maintain it and not risk stretching out your stomach

You're the second person that mentioned stretching out my sleeve. Are you pre-op? I'm not hungry like before surgery and I'm still on a 30/30/30 schedule even within the non fasting hours. I get plenty of fats,I still eat oils and nuts (in lower amounts now) But it's not a possibility for me anyway, I'm not frenzied during eating hours. If anything hunger is reduced and I eat more mindfully.

Edited September 3, 20187 yr by GreenTealael