Dumping finished...now experimenting with cake and biscuits....

[myfanwymoi 101]

It certainly does. I had it the second time at eight months out after eating a teaspoon of maple Syrup with a small pancake. It may be a bit like childbirth though (not that I've done that) where you forget the pain and convince yourself the pleasure is an acceptable swap for the pain. True only for babies. I've probably only dumped five or six times in total in 16 months. I'm hoping I've got the message now!!!

And yes it sucks the big sucky macsuckville with sucky cherries on the sucky top!!!

[Mattymatt 491]

14 minutes ago, myfanwymoi said:

It certainly does. I had it the second time at eight months out after eating a teaspoon of maple Syrup with a small pancake. It may be a bit like childbirth though (not that I've done that) where you forget the pain and convince yourself the pleasure is an acceptable swap for the pain. True only for babies. I've probably only dumped five or six times in total in 16 months. I'm hoping I've got the message now!!!

And yes it sucks the big sucky macsuckville with sucky cherries on the sucky top!!!

There is sugar-free maple syrup available so you could do that with a small pancake. Could it be the combination of the carbs from the pancake and the syrup that finally caused dumping syndrome?

[FluffyChix 17,409]

You can make awesome low carb Protein pancakes. And as Matty said, there is sugar free maple Syrup that doesn't suck too badly.

Honestly, with the dumping, I'd really consider going low-ish carb: like maybe 60-70g per day? My RD says I "need" 60g per day just to fuel the brain. (That's ok. I let her have that...cuz honestly we need zero carbs. The liver is capable of making those 60g daily that the brain and a few cells in the kidney needs each day--otherwise, the main portion of the brain runs much more efficiently on ketones produced through lipolysis.)

But with your low body weight now, you would have to be really on top of making sure to get your fats in and add avocado, nuts/seeds, etc in to make your calorie goals without having to eat a proteinpalooza every day. But at 60-70g of carbs, you would have room also for root veg like baked butternut and winter squashes, even quinoa in small portions.

[myfanwymoi 101]

Thanks for this. I’m thinking hard about food rules but want to allow some old style treats... made a ‘sundae today in a half cup sized glass with three quarters vanilla halo top, 1 gluten free oat fruit biscuit crumbled and stuck on top and about five of these tiny nuggets made out of dates n nuts. Tasted lush and stomach coped fine. Haven’t done the macros but will look at what it was when I log it.
Bought flax seeds almonds coconut flour and intend to make some high Protein treats...
decided one of my never rules will be never eat staffroom coffe table free food. It costs too much.
Really thankful for everyone’s support - feel like I am tip toeing through a mine field but so far all limbs intact as people shout ‘left a bit’ ‘right a bit’!!!

[FluffyChix 17,409]

With all due respect and concrats on goal and all, but you won't fully know the results of your experiments for another 6mos to a year. If I remember (cuz you don't have any of your stats up), you're around 18mos post-op? And from everything I read from vets is that they have no issues losing/maintaining until about 18mos to 2 years. Then it's like crap on a shingle. So hard to keep from regaining.

To me, you are doing something so reckless it's difficult to watch or read about your antics cuz a voice in my head is saying, "Danger! Danger! Run away! Run away! Rock slide." And I can't see where your behaviors would be at all useful or advisable for any of us to do since it goes against most of our RDs advice...

It feels like you're waving to ol' FU to your future and pouring kerosene on a smoldering fire you believe to be out for evs.

I'm sorry for being judgey...but it now feels like you're just flaunting your choices in all our faces who struggle so with food addiction and it's not very good to read.

Edited March 18, 2018 by FluffyChix

[myfanwymoi 101]

So sorry you feel like that and a little puzzled. I've read a lot of vets stories too and am working on adding high Protein stuff and factoring in treats. I watch the scales carefully, had baked fish n veg for supper and am very aware of my food issues.

Also aware that they are beginning to make themselves felt again and sharing because it helps and it's all very new.

Flaunting and kerosene... As a recovering alcoholic those are hard things to hear... Maybe I'm floating in that African river again. I'm going to email my dietician again who disappeared at around two months post op - I've only had one meeting with her so I'm not sure what I should be doing. I work with someone who's two years post sleeve. She drinks wine, doesn't get her protein in and regularly eats cake but is doing ok. I worry watching her so I know what you're getting at.

I've got the flu just now. Feeling v emotional and struggling to hear the critism. I'm doing my best.

It's been a long hard journey, there's other life stuff happening and I'm looking to do this the best I can.

And not sure what's so terrible at looking for high protein low carb stuff I can eat safely in small portions...

My sundae thing had 150 cals and 6.5g protein. Sugars may be a bit high but it seems to me it was an effort at combining nutrition and taste...

So I'm hearing your response and some anger there and feel a little hurt. This forum had felt like a safe place and now I'm feeling that I ought not share my experience. Would be pleased to hear advice from others at a similar place to me... Dec 16 bypass, 230 hw 210 SW 118 CW. 5'4".

We're all here because we want to win it and nothings scares me more than regain.

[sillykitty 10,704]

22 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

To me, you are doing something so reckless it's difficult to watch or read about your antics cuz a voice in my head is saying, "Danger! Danger! Run away! Run away! Rock slide." And I can't see where your behaviors would be at all useful or advisable for any of us to do since it goes against most of our RDs advice...

It feels like you're waving to ol' FU to your future and pouring kerosene on a smoldering fire you believe to be out for evs.

I'm sorry for being judgey...but it now feels like you're just flaunting your choices in all our faces who struggle so with food addiction and it's not very good to read.

I have to say I disagree with all this, @myfanwymoi has come here for help and support. She has had VERY successful weight loss, and is now trying to navigate maintenance. She took the advice to heart about making good choices, and her sundae was a good example of a smart indulgence. WLS vets job isn't to set an example for us newbies, they use the board for help and support as well.

Also I don't think @myfanwymoi is completely off base when thinking about a long term diet. There are very few people who will go a lifetime without "bad" foods. It maybe from cravings, or being in situations without good choices. I really think moderation and balance is the key for long term success for me. I'm not going to live a life without cake. I just want to be satisfied with two bites, instead of a whole slice. My long term eating plan has no absolutes, only an emphasis on healthy and low cal.

Edited March 19, 2018 by sillykitty
typo

[myfanwymoi 101]

1 hour ago, sillykitty said:

I have to say I disagree with all this, @myfanwymoi has come here for help and support. She has had VERY successful weight loss, and is now trying to navigate maintenance. She took the advice to heart about making good choices, and her sundae was a good example of a smart indulgence. WLS vets job isn't to set an example for us newbies, they use the board for help and support as well.

Also I don't think @myfanwymoi is completely off base when thinking about a long term diet. There are very few people who will go a lifetime with "bad" foods. It maybe from cravings, or being in situations without good choices. I really think moderation and balance is the key for long term success for me. I'm not going to live a life without cake. I just want to be satisfied with two bites, instead of a whole slice. My long term eating plan has no absolutes, only an emphasis on healthy and low cal.

Thanks sillykitty. I was left feeling quite squashed and anxious yesterday. It's hard to know when the inner voice is denial justification and when it's balanced rational thought. I'm capable of both!!

The Glenn Livingston book is useful. It's basis is a set of food rules and I'm trying to figure out what mine need to be.

If everytime I attempted two bites of pudding I ate more, pudding would go on my never list I guess.

When does the thin end of the wedge of cake turn into the 'entire confection!'? When I get the answer I'll learn and move.

Too be fair ATM looking at photos I may be a little on the thin side... So I have a small buffer zone. But I still don't want to gain. I'm as skinny as I was in my teens and I love the freedom it gives me. It was only in my thirties that I seriously gained and it was huge amounts each time I stopped smoking. Then I got stuck in yoyo mood, then gave up.

The other thing is when you're thin you discover you still have problems. You just get to deal with them as a slim healthy person - intrinsically you're the same underneath and whatever psychological undertow dragged you into obesity is still there. It manifests differently maybe but it still needs to be dealt withand that's the work I do in therapy.

Wishing everyone luck and spirit on their journey: theyll all be different but we all have the same intended destination - health, happiness. Longevity!

[FluffyChix 17,409]

22 hours ago, myfanwymoi said:

So sorry you feel like that and a little puzzled. I've read a lot of vets stories too and am working on adding high Protein stuff and factoring in treats. I watch the scales carefully, had baked fish n veg for supper and am very aware of my food issues.

Also aware that they are beginning to make themselves felt again and sharing because it helps and it's all very new.

Flaunting and kerosene... As a recovering alcoholic those are hard things to hear... Maybe I'm floating in that African river again. I'm going to email my dietician again who disappeared at around two months post op - I've only had one meeting with her so I'm not sure what I should be doing. I work with someone who's two years post sleeve. She drinks wine, doesn't get her Protein in and regularly eats cake but is doing ok. I worry watching her so I know what you're getting at.

I've got the flu just now. Feeling v emotional and struggling to hear the critism. I'm doing my best.

It's been a long hard journey, there's other life stuff happening and I'm looking to do this the best I can.

And not sure what's so terrible at looking for high protein low carb stuff I can eat safely in small portions...

My sundae thing had 150 cals and 6.5g protein. Sugars may be a bit high but it seems to me it was an effort at combining nutrition and taste...

So I'm hearing your response and some anger there and feel a little hurt. This forum had felt like a safe place and now I'm feeling that I ought not share my experience. Would be pleased to hear advice from others at a similar place to me... Dec 16 bypass, 230 hw 210 SW 118 CW. 5'4".

We're all here because we want to win it and nothings scares me more than regain.

Ok, so of course we're all entitled to our opinions. And if you weren't here inviting our opinions, then what? If you post here or anywhere, surely you must be prepared for descent as well as people who pat your back and tell you you're making great decisions? I don't get that, honestly.

Here is why I think this has danger all over it. This is your treat--roughly. (But since this isn't happening once every so often and appears to be happening daily, maybe you should just call it what it is: dessert. You are a recovering alcoholic. I have enough alcoholics recovering or otherwise in my family who've been there and done that, printed the t-shirt with the 12 steps...who will bold faced tell you: sugar is as sugar does. Doesn't matter if you're drinking it or seeking it out to eat it. And that need will build. It's like wrestling with a siren. You won't be content eating it now and then, or every day. Pretty soon it evolves to eating it preferentially for a meal in addition to dessert cuz it's easy and IT HAS PROTEIN! And it's easy. And tastes great. And IT HAS PROTEIN!!!

You admit that you are under goal (congrats again, btw) and have wiggle room to experiment with fire swallowing once more. Well, that is a painful thing to watch from an outsider looking on. Can you succeed and only have a "taste" or a swallow? Maybe. But our chemistries as addicts don't really change so much. The propensity and RISK is hugely more than someone who does not share the addictive nature.

Here's are some links about the connection between sugar and alcoholism/cravings:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20648910

https://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-being/stories/new-study-finds-link-between-a-sugar-cravings-and-alcoholism

https://wellnessretreatrecovery.com/sugar-and-dopamine-link-sweets-addiction/

(I could go on...but why?)

Again, you're entitled to live your life as you see fit. I agree you have that right. But coming here expecting that only those people who agree with you can post to your thread is not a logical expectation. I do not even begin to think that everyone will agree with me, or even like me--for that matter. But if I see new clothes on the emperor and it's really just him nekkidy...I'd appreciate someone telling me. I would tell them the king is nekkid.

(And I think learning to make low carb sugar free treats is a much better choice, BUT it's still dancing with fire for the alcoholic who MUST have sugar or sweets or die--unless they totally kick it.)

Again, I'm giving my opinion that is probably not popular. But you are free to do as you want as an adult. So I'm not judging you and finding you lacking personally. But your actions are questionable from my perspective.

And sorry your sick, xyz, feeling down, fill in the blank...none of those things actually figure into the equation--instead they are rationalizations for the choices you're making. So EVEN you don't believe they are good healthy choices for you.

But I am sorry you're sick and feeling blue. That sucks. ((hugs))

Edited March 19, 2018 by FluffyChix

[myfanwymoi 101]

I had no problem with your dissent it was the tone. The point of the Livingston stuff is to create rules. I wouldn't try to have one drink. I have a total of 28 years of sobriety under my belt now and I get that.

And sugar is not alcohol. I can abstain entirely from alcohol but sugar is rather different. For example whether it's fructose in its natural form in fruit, or dried or refined. I haven't yet made the decision about refined sugar: I am in the process of doing so.

The comments about being ill were to explain what feels like an over reaction on my part to your comments.

Good luck on your own journey.

I had no granola btw I had nakd bites which are made from dates and nuts. 10g worth.

So thanks for the hugs. Tone doesn't come out in mails. I don't expect agreement but I expect people to disagree in a way that doesn't denigrate or undermine.

[FluffyChix 17,409]

I understand that. I'm sorry my tone felt derogatory. It honestly was no different the day I typed it to now.

You should seriously Google the sugar/alcoholism connection. I would seriously disagree with your assertions. This has to do with how the brain lights up in the pleasure centers and dopamine receptors rather than liver metabolism...

[myfanwymoi 101]

Lustig et al.

Potatoes not Prozac. All sorts of interesting theories and contradictions.

I'm stepping back here and looking at my reaction to you. I can trace the roots of mine - it's fear and the old triggers of being told off/disapproved of. You will have your own perspective. I'd like to stop discussing it with you now though please. If it turns out that it was the thin end of a wedge of devil's food cake I'll be sure to come back and invite you to say told you so.

But I'm hoping I'll navigate myself through this stage by creating some helpful rules for myself and being ready to change them to no refined sugar or flour etc at all if I feel it's necessary.

Alcohol and sugar are chemically very alike but it's a lot easier to figure out what is and isn't booze eg the sugar in an apple v the sugar in a piece of 80% dark chocolate.(both things I've never ever binged on!)

Best of luck to you. May you soon be skinny chick!

[FluffyChix 17,409]

Ok, I can accept that! I wish you all the best. I do mean that. (By the way, Lustig is a pretty controversial doc too...)

Hope you'll stick around and prove me wrong. I welcome being told I told you so!

[myfanwymoi 101]

44 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

Ok, I can accept that! I wish you all the best. I do mean that. (By the way, Lustig is a pretty controversial doc too...)

Hope you'll stick around and prove me wrong. I welcome being told I told you so!

It's all good. I'm generally good at admitting it when I know I'm wrong - just hoping I'm not!

And I wish you the very best too. I'm looking forward to hearing how you get on in your own journey x