WLS for a sugar/carb addict and binger?

[reallyrosy 161]

No. What angers me is that you and others presume i am not honest with myself and that is the source of what i am considering 'failure'.

Sincerely wish you the very best with your sleeve.

[Apple1 2,572]

10 minutes ago, reallyrosy said:

No. What angers me is that you and others presume i am not honest with myself and that is the source of what i am considering 'failure'.

Sincerely wish you the very best with your sleeve.

I am sorry but I don't understand your anger. Nobody called you a failure. I would never call anyone a failure if you are talking to me. The statements made were not directed at anyone person at all as far as I understand it. A reason was given as to why many people experience regain with the sleeve. I am sure there are other reasons, but they don't make those facts any less true.

There are many threads on these forums about resetting the sleeve, or help to get back on track. A common theme is that eventually they let problem foods back into their diets, started snacking excessively, or grazing ... ect ect...

pointing out the pitfalls to people researching this surgery serves as a way to help them realize that they will need to be vigilant. It helps me realize and remember that I still need to make good choices and I can't expect that just because I had this surgery I am automatically home free from the possibility of slipping into old habits.

[reallyrosy 161]

i very clearly said it was presuming i am dishonest with myself that engenderd my anger. You persist in reading what resonates with what you are thinking.

Such messages are not helpful.

[blizair09 3,250]

1 hour ago, Apple1 said:

I am sorry but I don't understand your anger. Nobody called you a failure. I would never call anyone a failure if you are talking to me. The statements made were not directed at anyone person at all as far as I understand it. A reason was given as to why many people experience regain with the sleeve. I am sure there are other reasons, but they don't make those facts any less true.

There are many threads on these forums about resetting the sleeve, or help to get back on track. A common theme is that eventually they let problem foods back into their diets, started snacking excessively, or grazing ... ect ect...

pointing out the pitfalls to people researching this surgery serves as a way to help them realize that they will need to be vigilant. It helps me realize and remember that I still need to make good choices and I can't expect that just because I had this surgery I am automatically home free from the possibility of slipping into old habits.

I've given up on making that point. It will never make a difference (as correct as it is)...

[jess9395 5,450]

I agree, and I think that was the point of this whole thread. To say that the surgery is a tool when coupled with therapy and hard work could help those with food addictions be successful.

Yes....BUT....

None of us have walked a mile in anyone's shoes but our own.

No one can say how much of it is one part or the other. Or who needs which. Some people can do it all with therapy. Some can do it all with diet. I'm gonna buck the trend and say some can do it all with surgery. Some people need varying degrees of each one.

That's what's getting lost here and why no one seems to be having a meeting of the minds and so much misunderstanding.

I honestly believe my surgery and the accompanying biological changes (gut bacteria, hormones, physical restriction) was by far and away the largest part of my success. I haven't reverted to old patterns because the cravings and drive is gone. It allows me to eat the way I've always known I should.

And my weight loss has allowed me to exercise the way I always knew I should. I firmly believe most of my binge eating was a biological mechanism that then became a coping mechanism. So the biology needed to change or all the therapy in the world wouldn't have helped. And I didn't have half the therapy many on here have had.

We can't judge why anyone else fails.

[jess9395 5,450]

Jess i had vertical sleeve and never was questioned about a fundus. This is the first time anyone mentioned it. I also was dx'd with SIBO but that provider is in another state and cannot treat me unless i drive 4 hourz to see her. So i found another "voodoo" doc to see here where i live. The supplements did seem to help and i had better control with thsm. But with my a fib situation, i dont want to take supplements without supervision. The western med docs did not discourage me from Seeing her but they freely admit they do not know what tge supplements actually do. They helped mainly with lack of energy and fatigue and depression and anxiety but we hadn't got to the bacteria as yet. I hope this closer voodoo provider will be netter match

I had never hear of SIBO but have now googled t and I hope you find something that works for you to help you deal with that difficulty!

As for the fundus... If your sleeve surgeon didn't remove that with your surgery then your capacity can increase. If it's gone your capacity can only increase so much. It's the stretchy part. So once the swelling is gone, your stomach should forever restrict you. So unless you are eating slowly for a long period of time your sleeve should stop you from consuming the quantities you did before. Not as much as it did in the beginning (swelling, healing, pain) but still should restrict.

Do a search on here for sleeve reset or just try going back to basics--liquid or soft/purée diet for a few days. You may be surprised to find you regain your restriction or at least you tune back in to it.

If not, it's possible your sleeve was not properly created and the stretchy fundus was left at least partially intact and that's why you can still eat large amounts.

Those who "eat around" or "out eat" their sleeve either graze all day or find liquid or slider foods to get the calories in. That isn't stopped by the anatomy. But consuming large amounts in a discrete meal time should still be quite difficult.

[reallyrosy 161]

Jess...i googled fundus. My surgery was at yale so i am not questioning that the surgeon was lax. I do sometimes feel more restrictions than others but havent isolated quite shen that occurs except when i substitute a garden of life Protein Powder. But not so much now that its formulated with pea Protein. Im not panicked about this, as yet. I don't like it...but do accept that it's a life long struggle and i will never consider myself "out of the woods." My surgeon remarked on my fourth year follow-up that he never expected i would adhere to his 'rulings' as rigidly as i had. In fact he had his nut encourage me to add berries as complex carbs because i was not getting enough. So...i am looking forward to seeing what the new voodoo doc will recommend and hope i could resume the 7 Keto DHEA but won't get ahead of myself. Thanks for your discussion.

[Apple1 2,572]

9 hours ago, reallyrosy said:

i very clearly said it was presuming i am dishonest with myself that engenderd my anger. You persist in reading what resonates with what you are thinking.

Such messages are not helpful.

I am sorry that you feel these general statements were directed at you. They weren't. I said before surgery it is helpful to be really honest with ourselves about the relationship we have with food. Sometimes we don't see our own habits or recognize that we eat when stressed, or graze all day long. We can't fix problems we don't admit to ourselves we have. Not everyone has this problem.

I will stop posting. I was just trying to help people new to the idea of surgery. I truly did not mean to upset anyone.

[Apple1 2,572]

8 hours ago, jess9395 said:

Yes....BUT....

None of us have walked a mile in anyone's shoes but our own.

No one can say how much of it is one part or the other. Or who needs which. Some people can do it all with therapy. Some can do it all with diet. I'm gonna buck the trend and say some can do it all with surgery. Some people need varying degrees of each one.

That's what's getting lost here and why no one seems to be having a meeting of the minds and so much misunderstanding.

I honestly believe my surgery and the accompanying biological changes (gut bacteria, hormones, physical restriction) was by far and away the largest part of my success. I haven't reverted to old patterns because the cravings and drive is gone. It allows me to eat the way I've always known I should.

And my weight loss has allowed me to exercise the way I always knew I should. I firmly believe most of my binge eating was a biological mechanism that then became a coping mechanism. So the biology needed to change or all the therapy in the world wouldn't have helped. And I didn't have half the therapy many on here have had.

We can't judge why anyone else fails.

Everything you said is true. However, how does a person know what category they are going to fall into before surgery? Some people never reach their goal because they never addressed the mental side of their food issues.

I think when giving advice it is best to make it general and suggest all things that can help them be successful or share what has worked for you as an individual. The person reading can decide if what you posted resonates and would be helpful.

Personally the first things I did when researching the VSG was read the threads of people having problems with regain or not reaching their goal. I wanted to know ahead of time what not to do. Then I looked for the success stories to learn what works. We are all individuals so we have to apply what is going to work for us through trial and error. My sleeve is very restricting right now and I haven't had any cravings. Maybe I will be a lucky one and not ever have to worry, but I am not counting on that.

I never meant for anyone to take any of this conversation personally. I am a scientist by trade so I am used to looking at data objectively and without emotions.

[reallyrosy 161]

Apple 1

Let's just drop it for now.

Thank you for caring to respond.

[Apple1 2,572]

37 minutes ago, reallyrosy said:

Apple 1

Let's just drop it for now.

Thank you for caring to respond.

I do care. That is why I even respond to threads here. To help people earlier in this journey than I am. This forum also helps keep me motivated and on point. I need to find away to respond with facts without upsetting anyone. I will work on that, but I am not perfect.

[Escape Pod 7]

This is just my experience, you may do better than I have.

I was in the same boat as a pre-op, I was a sugar addict and a binge eater. I'd read every self-help book I could find and spent a year in therapy pre-op but none of that helped. After surgery for the first 6 months or so I had no urge at all to overeat, or to eat foods full of sugar and carbs. I dropped 105 pounds in a year to get below my goal weight, my surgeon told me I was a "superstar", I was skinny and active and happy, but could already see the struggle with food was back.

Now, at 6 years post-op I've regained half my loss and am working to take it off again. Honestly, I've spent the past several years battling sugar addiction and carbs again. I feel good restriction when I'm eating Protein and veggies, but boy can I pack in the Cookies, or chocolate, or whatever. Got myself back on track a few times over the years and got closer to goal, but nothing I stuck with for more than a few months. I've finally found a coaching program that's helping me understand not only why I overeat, but what to do about it. I've dropped 20 of my 60 pounds of regain, and believe I'll be getting those skinny clothes back out of boxes by the end of the year. My post-op stomach helps me feel satisfied with small portions of the right foods, the coaching is helping me stop wanting the wrong ones.

Some people manage to make the switch after surgery and never look back, others of us return to our old habits. I strongly recommend you find a therapist or coach, or some other program to help you address the reasons you're overeating sugar and carbs. For the first 6 - 12 months you'll feel like a million bucks and the plummeting scale numbers and smaller clothes and compliments will replace the joy you're getting from food. In my experience, once you're at or near goal the joy from those begins to play a smaller role and you're at risk of going back to overeating.

[reallyrosy 161]

Whats a coaching program? How does that work? I have assiduously not touched a complex carb since dec 5 2011. I work out 3x week land with personal trainer and 2 to 3 x week swim. I ve gained 10 to 15 above my lowest. I suppose i could pack in Cookies etc but i still have not broken that fast. I have messed up with the no liquids right after a meal. I do overeat baby carrots. Sometimes i indulge in low fat string cheese. Sometimes blue berries....but i have gained in spite of everything and i hate that aspect of this struggle because there is no reward for the hard work. Yes. Being a smaller size. Fitting into an airplane seat [just ONE!] tying my own laces, wearing a swim suit,...yes it is a reward but i do not think it commensurate with the efforts i expend. Nope. For all that work i want MORE.

[Yettid 67]

It's interesting to hear from veteran wls and newbies alike. With all due respect, it's easy to say "I am committed indefinitely" to a certain way of eating when your just a few months out. I'm trying to see the big picture for my lifetime. Thanks all.

[Escape Pod 7]

8 hours ago, reallyrosy said:

Whats a coaching program? How does that work? I have assiduously not touched a complex carb since dec 5 2011. I work out 3x week land with personal trainer and 2 to 3 x week swim. I ve gained 10 to 15 above my lowest. I suppose i could pack in Cookies etc but i still have not broken that fast. I have messed up with the no liquids right after a meal. I do overeat baby carrots. Sometimes i indulge in low fat string cheese. Sometimes blue berries....but i have gained in spite of everything and i hate that aspect of this struggle because there is no reward for the hard work. Yes. Being a smaller size. Fitting into an airplane seat [just ONE!] tying my own laces, wearing a swim suit,...yes it is a reward but i do not think it commensurate with the efforts i expend. Nope. For all that work i want MORE.

I'm working through Brooke Castillo's stop overeating coaching program. Much of it I've heard or read elsewhere over the years, but her perspective on things just clicks with me somehow. Check out her podcasts if you want more info. (Note, she's not a licensed therapist, which is why it's "coaching")