who supports right to choose

[Carrie_C 9]

Yes, that is true. We also used to have a planned parenthood here a long time ago. They also left because of prolifers. But they didn't even do abortions. They provided low cost Paps and birth control for women. It was really a blow to the whole community when they left, because women without insurance had no where else to go. I used to go there when I was a teenager to get birth control pills. They also did free STD testing and pregnancy tests. They got ran off though, because they provided women with information on where to get an abortion if they wanted it. But they didn't do them there, so I still don't really understand why they left.

[gadgetlady 4]

I did a pretty extensive web search and I'm not seeing an abortion clinic arson case in Chattanooga. I see a clinic shutting down (Abortion History in Chattanooga, which indicates that the clinic went out of business when the building it was in sold), and I'm seeing various reports of botched (legal) abortions having been performed there (http://www.abortionviolence.com/TN.HTM#CHATTANOOGA), but nothing about arson.

[Carrie_C 9]

It has been a long time ago. It was mentioned on the news not long ago. I will try and find it.

[cyndiloowho 0]

Wow.

Seriously, just wow. I have heard all of the arguments before from the do-gooder crowd for 'why every unwanted pregnancy should be brought to term'. What the anti-choice crowd always seems to ignore, though is that many unwanted children live absolutely wretched lives. I worked in child welfare and saw so many of these unwanted kids. When you are born with FAS/drug addicted and THEN you get to go home with your neglectful mother/father who are so busy doing drugs that they don't heed your cries, then you get to grow up to get raped repeatedly by your mother's new boyfriends.........yeah, I think they would have preferred not being born at all.

I'm talking about such horrible, misearable lives that I couldn't even comprehend it prior to working there. I was pro-choice before I started doing child welfare investigations. I became much more so after that.

I agree with the pp's about not wanting children/taking steps to prevent pregnancy. I have three kids who I LOVE, but they were lucky enough to be born to parents who loved them and treat them that way. It used to break my heart that my kids got loved while the kids I saw at work got.....well, the shaft, basically. I totally respect people who don't want to have kids. It is not for everyone and that is okay. I have close friends who don't want kids and can only take mine in small doses. (they are wonderful, but there are, ATM, two toddlers. :rolleyes2: )

Anyhoo, would the anti-choice crowd please tell me this: why do you focus so much attention on the "unborn" and yet completely ignore the ones who are already here and no one wants to adopt them because they are "so damaged"???? Focus your attention on the ones who already exist in this world and help them, maybe?

[gadgetlady 4]

What the anti-choice crowd always seems to ignore, though is that many unwanted children live absolutely wretched lives. I worked in child welfare and saw so many of these unwanted kids.

No doubt many children suffer in horrible situations. But remember: abortion is currently legal. If abortion solved child abuse, there would be no child abuse.

Focus your attention on the ones who already exist in this world

Here's the problem: the unborn DO exist. Just because you can't see them doesn't make them non-existent. They are suffering the worst of all child abuse: dismemberment.

[cyndiloowho 0]

I think you are missing the point, gadget. Imagine that you were one of those kids being raped my mom's boyfriend/dealing with FAS. You see a news report of a bunch of anti-choicers at a rally and,(If you have the cognitive ability to reason like this after all the brain damage from the drugs in utero) you think, "I wish someone cared that much about my life."

Read the book Freakanomics (suggests a corollary you may be uncomfortable with). While you are at it, read The Moral Imagination. Speaks to the early history of abortion and how the church was FOR it. It was shocking, so say the least.

I will just come out and say it, "I am MORE CONCERNED about babies/children who are already born than the ones who are not."

If their mothers cannot/will not take care of them then I think they are better off not entering the world than living this sort of fate.

ETA: In a perfect world every single child who was conceived would be wanted/cared for/loved. We don't live in that world, though.

[Carrie_C 9]

cyndiloowho, I totally agree with you. That was the point I was trying to make about my city not having an abortion clinic and the closest one being over 2 hours away. Poor women who have unwanted pregnancies are forced to have the unwanted babies because they have no transportation to get to an abortion clinic that is so far away. My Mom and stepdad are foster parents, so I have seen how much a lot of these unwated kids go through. It is really sad. I also agree that there aren't enough people helping these kids. There are so many unwanted kids in state's custody that it is impossible for the state to be able to give them all the help that they need. Prolifers are so concerned with saving the unborn, but what happens after that unwanted child is born? There is no one there to help them then.

[smsmithart 4]

I wish you guys would leave this subject alone already...its legal and that is that...no since in lbtrs fighting about it ...

[gadgetlady 4]

I don't believe in pre-emptively murdering people because they might have a bad life.

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Cyndi- my career is social work as well and I've spent a few years doing investigations for the states of Florida and Texas. However, despite the awful conditions I see for these poor children, killing them is never my solution. We should punish a child for the poor choices a parent makes? A parent is accountable for their own choices. I've seen awesome accomplishments from some of these young people. Even after being born addicted to drugs, or having FAS. I've seen FAS children go on to graduate high school and lead productive lives. I've seen rape survivors and burn victims show tremendous strength. I've also seen the parents of these once "unwanted" children improve!

Your solution is a poor one. Not only would these children get born anyway (abortion is legal, yet these parents chose against abortion) but it's a form of genocide against the poor. (Because although abuse happens in all categories, let's be honest here that most abuse- at least that's reported- occurs in the ghetto) I think I could also make the stretch that it's racism! In all the areas I've worked, most my clients have been black.

Let's have some more realistic solutions people. We can't just kill babies because we don't want to deal with them, or because we've made a bad choice, or because we think they may lead a poor life.

[MrsFlipFlops 2]

Also, states offer the safe haven law. If you have an unwanted child, take your baby to the nearest fire department or hospital. No questions asked.

We have choices before we jump into bed with that man. Exercise your right to choose! Choose safe relationships, birth control, and sound judgement.

[green 6]

A good idea.... Kill off the babies of the poor. That way taxes can be lowered!

[TommyO 5]

FYI writing chalk notes on the sidewalk and praying to a mythological deity outside any building is freaky enough for me. You don't have to be yelling and screaming to appear odd this sounds like the behavior of fanatical religious zealots from where I sit.

You know Gadget your last comment to me may seem to be a positive statement but it feels quite patronizing to me. You have no problem calling those in the pro-choice movement baby killers and murderers but when I call those of you on the religious right crazy you depict me as a negative person. You expect me to dial it down but at the same time you keep it dialed up adnauseam.

Fundamentalists use a deity and a holy book to justify their bad behavior at the same time to proove the bad behavior of those they disagree with. I don't have a god so bad is bad and good is good either way it's up ones to interpretation. The only difference is I don't feel compelled to include a higher power to justify my side.

What if I told you I was proud of you for behaving better and that I was praying for those poor wretched souls that don't know any better, would you think I was being patronizing?

[gadgetlady 4]

Yup, I was wrong to perceive a change. Should have known.

[pattygreen 5]

we have been foster parents for over 23 years and we raised 2 girls and 1 boy through adulthood. They are in their early 20's and they still live with us. My husband and I had 7 children together as well. So, you see, we do care for the unwanted children out there. There's a reason why God commands that you get married, stay married and have no sex outside of marriage. His plan is always best. If everyone lived by it we wouldn't even need to have these conversations!