who supports right to choose

[gadgetlady 4]

Yes, how ridiculous indeed!! Human life begins at Birth

Not all in favor of abortion agree with you. Some believe it begins at viability and some have other places they draw the line.

So you're perfectly OK with late term abortions? Abortion being legal up until the moment of birth? You see a huge distinction in the right to life between a full-term baby about to be delivered and one having just been delivered?

[SlimTarnishedDiva 1]

You know, there are a lot of things the government doesn't allow us to do with our bodies. If you go to a hospital and ask them to chop off your arm, they won't. You can't take certain drugs or drive while intoxicated. So we really don't "own" our bodies, as much as we might like to think we do. We certainly can't sell them in most parts of the US. In the case of abortion, not only are we not talking about our "own" bodies (which we don't "own"), there's another person's body involved.

Why would you go to the hospital to get your arm chopped off...when you can clearly do it at home, if you are that nuts!! I own my BODY and if I want to saw off a boob, an arm, and a limb I can do it or get someone else to do it...Please don't try to insult my intelligence with ludicrous scenario's. You can take any drug and drive high and drunk it you want to, but you stand the risk of endangering other people on the road, plus yourself for being so idiotic!!

[BJean 16]

I'll make whatever decisions I wish to make about my womb whether there is a fertilized egg in there or not. You have absolutely no say in the matter - none whatsoever - thank God.

gadget you made the statement that you chose to make about a sperm and an egg - I didn't make you say it or even interpret it for you - you should take responsibility for what you post and stop trying to blame others for something you've put out there that prompts rebuttal.

This is a blast, but I gotta sign off. Hope you all have a good evening and stay tuned.... I'm sure we're not done here. :eek:

[gadgetlady 4]

Why would you go to the hospital to get your arm chopped off...when you can clearly do it at home, if you are that nuts!! I own my BODY and if I want to saw off a boob, an arm, and a limb I can do it or get someone else to do it...Please don't try to insult my intelligence with ludicrous scenario's. You can take any drug and drive high and drunk it you want to, but you stand the risk of endangering other people on the road, plus yourself for being so idiotic!!

If you saw off a boob, an arm, and a limb you will be taken to an institution (after you go the hospital). You can't take any drug you want, and you certainly can't sell your body in most states in the US. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's the law.

[SlimTarnishedDiva 1]

Not all in favor of abortion agree with you. Some believe it begins at viability and some have other places they draw the line.

So you're perfectly OK with late term abortions? Abortion being legal up until the moment of birth? You see a huge distinction in the right to life between a full-term baby about to be delivered and one having just been delivered?

Please with putting ridiculous crap in my mouth!! I am not perfectly ok with someone minding a woman's business who they aren't directly related to.. I believe in a woman's right to choose. Aren't late term abortions against the law since the Supreme Court said so...so why would I advocate a woman breaking the law!?!

[gadgetlady 4]

Nope, I never said that sperm and eggs, joined or unjoined, are not human. I suggested that they are not human beings. There is a distinction.

You said, So a sperm and an egg are human beings as far as you're concerned?, the implication being that I believed they were. I clarified that not only do I not believe they are, but that factually they are not.

[SlimTarnishedDiva 1]

If you saw off a boob, an arm, and a limb you will be taken to an institution (after you go the hospital). You can't take any drug you want, and you certainly can't sell your body in most states in the US. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's the law.

I can do ALL of those things, however a few might land me in jail. You didn't say they were against the law, or insane..You said I couldn't do it..BUT I CAN!! It's all subject to the law. Women sell their body's to political figures all the time... If I want to I can smoke herb, and do a senator--and not get caught!! I OWN ME!! If I get knocked up, I can go get an abortion if I choose to... I OWN ME!! NOT YOU!!

[gadgetlady 4]

I can do ALL of those things, however a few might land me in jail. You didn't say they were against the law, or insane..You said I couldn't do it..BUT I CAN!!

Your are absolutely right. I misspoke. You physically CAN do those things, but they are illegal. I believe abortion should be, too, especially since not only are you doing something to your own body but to another person's as well.

[BJean 16]

If a person is driven to amputate an arm or a leg (and there is a physiological condtion that causes this) they can and will search the globe until they find a doctor who will do it in a clinical and safe environment. If a woman is driven, for whatever reason, to have an abortion, she will go beyond the ends of the earth to get one. Desperation causes people to do lots of things. There are an obscene number of babies who are killed by their own mothers after labor and delivery because the mother cannot psychologically or physically bear the situation she's in.

Anti-choice people would have everyone believe that women always mourn and have horrible regrets after having an abortion. I don't doubt that some do. However, for some women having a wrong righted in that way is an enormous relief and in many cases, it SAVES lives.

One bandaide law making abortions illegal cannot fix this problem. The only reasonable way to deal with this is for the government and religious zealots to take care of themselves and their own and not presume to believe that their answer is the only answer - because it simply is not.

No one should be compelled by law to have a baby. Babies are much too important for us to treat them like a comodity to be handed off to someone else when we can't take care of them. And each and every woman in this world is much too important for us to compel them all, by law, to make a choice that they cannot live with.

[gadgetlady 4]

How well do you know Roe? Click here and take the test Welcome. You can skip past the page that asks for your contact information so you don't get on any mailing lists you don't want to be on. The questions are interesting and you might be surprised at what you THINK the Roe v. Wade decision said and what it ACTUALLY said.

Remember, this quiz is on Roe only, not Doe v. Bolton.

[gadgetlady 4]

SORRY - I misspoke! The quiz is on BOTH Roe AND Doe as a "combined" legal decision.

(I sure wish that editing function worked [grrr])

[green 6]

Yah, the inability to edit is a total drag. I get frustrated by this, too.

[BJean 16]

To err is human.

[Lori in Cali 0]

I got 11 out of 12 of the questions correct.

The point of this discussion misses the entire reasoning behind abortion law. The question is whether the government has a right to overrule an individual's bodily physical autonomy. The reasoning and the concerns behind the reasoning are not restricted, in any way, to pregnancy or to women.

First of all, you must remember that abortion was legal and entirely unregulated in the United States (in fact, the entire world) when the US Constitution was written. The founding fathers did not perceive it as something that needed to be regulated. It wasn't until the early 19th century before there was any regulation in the US - I think the first state was Maryland. That regulation was designed to protect women who were being preyed upon by careless physicians.

This is the problem with overturning the right to abortion - you have government deciding that the well-being of a fetus is more important than the physical well-being of a citizen of the state (that phrase is key). You're deciding that a woman's body can be exempt from the fundamentally democratic ideal that we are all entitled to bodily autonomy. And if Roe were to be overturned, the protections that come with that decisions would impact all of us - regardless of age or gender. That bodily autonomy exemption cannot, Constitutionally speaking, be limited to one gender. If a woman's bodily resources can be plundered to the physical well-being of another, so can a man's. A fetus, who shows early signs of some affliction that requires resources that the mother's body cannot provide, would have the legal right to demand that someone else turn over the resources of their body for it's benefit. That's the immediate, short term fall out of overturning Roe - none of us have a right to bodily autonomy without Roe's protection. The next problem is this - how do you restrict the right to demand the bodily resources of others to fetuses? A fetus who has a certain type of cancer than is caught early in utero would have the legal right to demand that others turn over what ever is needed to mend the cancer early, but once the infant is born, that right would evaporate. Now, we're providing a fetus with more rights than actual born citizens have. That's not going to stand, because then you're saying a fetus' life is more important before it is born than after. How are you going to sustain that in a court of law? You aren't. And then everything is on the table. You'll have wealthy older men demanding that organs be turned over to them. You'll have three year olds with leukemia forcing neighbors into the hospital for bone marrow transplant. You cannot limit the duty to surrender bodily autonomy to only one gender, nor can you limit the right to demand the bodily resources of another to only fetuses.

When you look at the fall out of overturning Roe V Wade, it becomes immediately apparent that in this day and age of medical intervention, the fall out is going to be far larger and far more dramatic than the current discussion ever incapsulates.

For those who are anti-choice, I will point out that any government that can make abortion illegal is a government that can made abortion mandatory - both of those decisions involve the government having control over our bodily integrity. Feminist factions took a strong stand against forced abortions in China for the very same reason they take a strong stand against abortion being made illegal.

There is no one that I know of that is pro-abortion. There are only people who are in favor of a woman deciding whether to carry a pregnancy to term, or the government. It's one or the other.

And by the way, Roe being overturned could very well result in abortion being made illegal. It entirely depends upon what the decision is. If the justices decided that fetuses were entitled to constitutional protection, abortion would instantly be illegal.

[sweethot143 2]

lori- very informative. Do you have any opinions as to what can be done to help lower the rate of unnecessary abortions. For example and abortion that is done because the mother made a mistake having sex, the baby is completely healthy as is mother. If overturning Roe would cause so many other problems that seem even worse than the current one, then are there any other ways to prevent the babies from being killed for no reason.

I'm mostly speaking of instances where abortion is a sort of birth control. An easy way not to take responsibility for an action or a choice made.

I think you are right, most people are not pro abortion. I just think that young woman are not educated enough on their choices and what an abortion actually means and what is done to that baby.

Oprah said something very profound on one of her shows. She said, "Educate a woman or a girl and change the world." So true, girls grow up to have children and pass that education on to them. If girls were taught to value themselves more then maybe the abortion rate wouldn't be so high.

Why is the abortion rate almost zero for a married woman? That sort of proves the argument that abortion is used as birth control.

after reading your post, I've questioned myself, maybe over turning Roe is not the answer here. This is the first time I have ever even considered it being ok with me having abortions legal.