Gun Enthusiasts Mobilize

[anonemouse 1]

I believe there should be special licenses required to operate high-speed word processors and assault grade printing presses. They should be kept only with special locked switches on them and only the 'proper authorized people' should have access to the keys. I think every person using such implements of mass opinion should have to pass classes in Civics, American History, Constitutional Law, Elements of Rational and Critical Thought and Logic, as well as History of Firearms and Economics graduate classes.

Jack, I'd agree with you if "high speed word processors and assault-grade printing presses" were responsible for 14.24 out of every 100,000 deaths in the US, like guns are.

[DerickM 1]

Jack, I'd agree with you if "high speed word processors and assault-grade printing presses" were responsible for 14.24 out of every 100,000 deaths in the US, like guns are.

But how many of those 14.24 deaths are commited by criminals vs. avg. joe/jane?

[Carlene 12]

Jack, I'd agree with you if "high speed word processors and assault-grade printing presses" were responsible for 14.24 out of every 100,000 deaths in the US, like guns are.

Exactly! Where I live, it's easier to buy a gun than it is to get permission to add onto your house.

[faithmd 14]

Jack, I'd agree with you if "high speed word processors and assault-grade printing presses" were responsible for 14.24 out of every 100,000 deaths in the US, like guns are.

15.3 per 100,000 people died from motor vehicle injuries in USA 2001 (NCHS, 2003)

What can we do about these dastardly motor vehicles?

[anonemouse 1]

But how many of those 14.24 deaths are commited by criminals vs. avg. joe/jane?

Does it really matter? If restrictions on guns are eased, anyone would be able to get one, even if they wouldn't have been able to legally before. Right now, at least, them owning a gun is a crime and they can be punished for it if caught.

[anonemouse 1]

15.3 per 100,000 people died from motor vehicle injuries in USA 2001 (NCHS, 2003)

What can we do about these dastardly motor vehicles?

That's why we regulate motor vehicle licenses. Last time I checked, you have to pass a test and be above a certain age, not be a drunk driver, not had a seizure within 6 months, obey speed limits, yadda, yadda, yadda. We don't let six year olds drive cars. Or 90 year-olds with bad vision and Alzheimers, for that matter.

Regulation is a good thing, people. I am not advocating that people not be allowed to own guns. But there should be regulations placed on it.

[Carlene 12]

15.3 per 100,000 people died from motor vehicle injuries in USA 2001 (NCHS, 2003)

What can we do about these dastardly motor vehicles?

Apples and oranges.

How about this....in Great Britain, where private ownership of guns is forbidden, the crime rate is no higher than in the USA. So the when-guns-are-outlawed-only-outlaws-will-have-guns argument has been disproved, hasn't it?

[faithmd 14]

I can't imagine that anyone is saying to ease the current restrictions so that felons can LEGALLY own guns. My belief is that we should enforce the laws and regulations we currently have, why make more when we don't enforce the ones already on the books?

I own guns, legally, and they are registered. One of my dream guns is a Kimber, the one I want goes for about $1200USD. I don't have that kind of money right now to tie up in a gun. I saw a news story recently where the exact gun I wanted was sold on the street for about $100. So you see, if you want a gun, and don't care about getting one legally, you can obtain it a whole lot cheaper than us law-abiding citizens can.

Imposing more regulations and restrictions are only going to limit what us legal gun owners can own and do, it won't affect the criminals one iota.

[Carlene 12]

Personally I don't want to have any machine guns even though there are legal sporting uses of them. And there are PLENTY of legitimate uses for short-barreled shotguns that don't involve felonious activity.

I'll play your silly game, Jack. What sporting use is there for a machine gun? And other than killing snakes, which is what my dad used his sawed-off shotgun for many years and lots of legislation ago, when would one be a better choice of weapon than a traditional shotgun?

[anonemouse 1]

Imposing more regulations and restrictions are only going to limit what us legal gun owners can own and do, it won't affect the criminals one iota.

I agree, in certain circumstances. But I do think that there are certain common-sense things that should be regulated, because some people are just stupid and have no common sense. If they are already law, that's great. If not, they need to be added. So, yes, I do advocate waiting periods and background checks. After all, I don't want folks with psych problems out there owning dangerous weapons. I also advocate that people be forced to store their guns in a safe manner, where kids can't get their hands on them and robbers can't break in (when the owner isn't there) and find a nice new gun to sell on the street.

And one of the possible restrictions that I personally favor is forcing all gun owners to have at least a minimal alarm system in their homes. Heck, if you have enough money to buy a gun, you've got enough money to at least buy one of those magnetic alarm thingies. It might save some people from having to use their gun.

[anonemouse 1]

I'll play your silly game, Jack. What sporting use is there for a machine gun? And other than killing snakes, which is what my dad used his sawed-off shotgun for many years and lots of legislation ago, when would one be a better choice of weapon than a traditional shotgun?

That's actually what I was going to ask next, too, since I can't think of a single use where a different, less powerful gun couldn't be used.

[faithmd 14]

That's why we regulate motor vehicle licenses. Last time I checked, you have to pass a test and be above a certain age, not be a drunk driver, not had a seizure within 6 months, obey speed limits, yadda, yadda, yadda. We don't let six year olds drive cars. Or 90 year-olds with bad vision and Alzheimers, for that matter.

you have to pass a test and in some states, a review board to obtain a CCW license. In right-to-carry states, you have to take and pass a class in order to obtain a CCW permit.

Regulation is a good thing, people. I am not advocating that people not be allowed to own guns. But there should be regulations placed on it.

Absolutely! On this we totally agree, regulations (as they exist today) are a very good thing.

Here's a copy of the laws regarding firearms that the "dastardly" NRA supports:

<B>A Citizen's

Guide to

Federal

Firearms

Laws

A summary of federal

restrictions on the purchase,

sale, possession, and transportation

of firearms and ammunition.

Caution: Firearm laws are subject to frequent changeand court interpretation. This summary is not intended as legal advice or restatement of law. This summary does not includestate or local laws,ordinances orregulations. For any particular situation, a licensed local attorney must be consulted foran accurateinterpretation.

</B>

Under federal law supported by the National Rifle Association, the use of a firearm in a violent or drug-trafficking crime is punishable by a mandatory prison sentence of up to 20 years. A second conviction, if the firearm is a machine gun or is equipped with a silencer, brings life imprisonment without release. Violating firearms laws should lead to very real punishment for violent criminals, but the laws first must be enforced.

Ineligible Persons

The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:

• Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
  
• Fugitives from justice.
  
• Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
  
• Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
  
• Illegal aliens.
  
• Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
  
• Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
  
• Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
  
• Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
  
• Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
  
• Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.

Acquiring Firearms

The following restrictions apply to firearms acquired through purchase, trade, receipt of gifts, or by other means.

From Dealers

Provided that federal law and the laws of both the dealer's and purchaser's states and localities are complied with:

• An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire a handgun from a dealer federally licensed to sell firearms in the individual's state of residence
  
• An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed dealer in any state

It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm unless the federal firearms licensee receives notice of approval from a prescribed source approving the transfer.

Sale of a firearm by a federally licensed dealer must be documented by a federal form 4473, which identifies and includes other information about the purchaser, and records the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. Sales to an individual of multiple handguns within a five-day period require dealer notification to the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Violations of dealer record keeping requirements are punishable by a penalty of up to $1000 and one year's imprisonment.

[faithmd 14]

Apples and oranges.

How about this....in Great Britain, where private ownership of guns is forbidden, the crime rate is no higher than in the USA. So the when-guns-are-outlawed-only-outlaws-will-have-guns argument has been disproved, hasn't it?

Guns aren't forbidden in Great Britain. You cannot own a handgun, but long guns are perfectly fine and dandy. And anyone can still saw off the barrel of a long-gun.

[Carlene 12]

Seems pretty liberal to me already. Do we really need LESS gun legislation than this?

GUN LAWS FOR TEXAS

Handgun ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required

Rifle and Shotgun ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required

Semi-automatic "assault weapon" ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required

Machine Gun Ownership: no state restrictions, compliance with federal law only

Concealed carry: licenses granted on a "shall issue" basis; reciprocity available for nonresidents with carry permits from certain other states

Vehicle carry and transportation: unlicensed individuals and non-residents may not carry handguns on or about their persons while in a vehicle. Loaded rifles and shotguns may be carried in plain view or in a case

[faithmd 14]

Seems pretty liberal to me already. Do we really need LESS gun legislation than this?

GUN LAWS FOR TEXAS

Handgun ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required

Rifle and Shotgun ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required

Semi-automatic "assault weapon" ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required

Machine Gun Ownership: no state restrictions, compliance with federal law only

Concealed carry: licenses granted on a "shall issue" basis; reciprocity available for nonresidents with carry permits from certain other states

Vehicle carry and transportation: unlicensed individuals and non-residents may not carry handguns on or about their persons while in a vehicle. Loaded rifles and shotguns may be carried in plain view or in a case

Actually many states do not require permits to purchase, though most all require permits to carry handguns.

Shall issue still requires registration and a class or a test for CCW.

And I never said, nor would I ever say, that we need to make gun laws more liberal. I said we need to enforce what we have now (and many states don't have state regulations because they follow federal guidelines as you noted in your post), as opposed to passing more. If we can't enforce what we currently have, then what makes us think we can enforce even more?