Okay, I've been forced to do a lot of soul-searching recently.

Despite sailing through any pre-operative psychological assessment (in fact I was so convincing and probably 'cause I was self pay I wasn't actually referred for the full tests), there is a nagging truth which keeps tapping me on the shoulder and making me uncomfortably aware of the reasons as to why I found myself in this position. The position whereby I felt bariatric surgery was my only viable option to lose weight and take control of my diet. Or more accurately and for me; my portion size.

Although I can intellectualise my way out of a paper bag (as was stated by the psychologist when I finally met them), I had, and have, to be honest as to the reasons I ended up this big.

The answer, as painful as it is, was; my mother.

My mother is a tough cookie. Born in a depressive era in Ireland, with enumerate siblings. She was poor and although educated, she was curtailed in her life choices and was always shown that 'if you love someone, you feed them'. I assume this was their truth, as to feed a very big family was difficult at this time, and was the only example her poor long-suffering and abused mother could muster under extreme circumstances. It was also the only expected long-term outlook for women of childbearing age.

The impact of this, was clearly passed down the genetic line. That in this, the nature/nurture argument for our food weaknesses becomes more pressing. This was exemplified not only in the way my mother behaved generally, but how she administered herself in her marriage and how she behaved with her children.

The extent of this dysfunction only became apparent in how skewed my food choices (and more appropriately: portion sizes) were - and how I was born into those food choices - when recently cooking for my mother. She skipped anything resembling a vegetable, ate her body-weight in meat, potatoes and fresh bread (despite my making from scratch; Hummus, Baba Ganoush, Fatttoush and Lamb kebab). She was a wonderful cook herself and we never went without anything (all food groups represented) and it was never out of a packet. However, I got a rude awakening as to how a mothers preferences in showing affection and her deeper psychological state, totally influenced us kids.

When pressing me on my weight loss, she conceded that she'd always focussed too much on the carbs ('tis an Irish thing) when we were children and how she'd misrepresented the importance of bread and potatoes in our diet. This was also, and sadly, tempered with how her inability to show affection, manifested itself in the reward system she'd assigned for herself. In that by feeding her offspring, she'd aligned this with the ultimate expression of love....

As much as I love my mother and as much of a wonderful cook she was; I realised that the burden of responsibility for the reason I was so overweight as a child, which then carried on into adulthood, was as much her responsibility as it was mine. I, too, now feed those I love. Not because I have an incapability to show love, but that these deeply engrained examples have become the example I work from. Despite these factors changing - because of the surgery - I can see where these behaviours are hard cycles to break and have left me with a mental quandary over identity and 'healthy' expressions of love and affection.

I have no idea as to the extent to how people evaluate the impact of bariatric surgery on their lives. Tactical and strategic analysis is difficult to do when everyone is so enraptured by the immediate gratification gained from losing pounds and having all those non-scale-victories (lest we talk about the 'my cats blacker' self affirming attitudes which occasional pervades this website).... But has it forced you to re-evaluate the causes for your issue?

Have you searched your soul and now have a better handle on how you ended up in this position? 'Cause lets face it - most of us can sit in a psychologist's chair for hours at a time, spinning the wheel - but unless you're willing to strip back your insecurities to the bare-bones truth, doesn't it all feel a bit, well, empty?

Have we learnt anything other than to count the carbs, count the Protein, measure the Water consumption and count the calories in order to be fitter, tighter, healthier, smaller, more socially acceptable?

I truly believe our surgical endeavors absolutely force us to re-evaluate our lives, our succor/comfort systems and our behaviour. Consequently and because of how hard it is (emotionally), do we not sneer with derision at those who proffer 'surgery is the easy option'. Out of the curtailment of our ability to chow down and eat our way to 'happiness'; is there not something more emotional and scarily deep, that we've had to confront every time we look in the mirror?

i know I'm not an island unto myself. We were weak. We are, still, weak.

Outside of the victories in maintaining a life of low fat, cottage cheese virtuous goodness. There is a deeper significance to combating the external expression of our hurt.

What are yours?

With utmost respect and affection,

Revs x

"Between pain and nothing, I would choose pain."

I want to have joy, even if it means some pain.

It's so much better than nothing...

Vulnerability.. I want to feel, I want to not just have my walls up and survive.

I want to let it out, and let others in.

That means being open which means a certain amount of vulnerability.

Not to those that hurt me in the past, there is now bond there, nothing to fix with that person(s).

Vulnerability....Why would you want that? Please explain what you mean please

Thank you Laura....it is a great thought indeed...I am working on that as well.....It takes people who have been in the lowest places to get to that wonderful point...It is where I hope to be in the future, really it is.....It is a great goal for all of us!!!!!

I had a very hard time with my husband a few years back. I pulled myself together pretty much by sheer will and powered through everything. This was also the time period when I was sick and didn't know it, holding down two jobs, and finishing my master's degree.

I was also brittle, angry, and bitter, even with some of my dear friends. To be fair, they didn't provide me with a soft landing place. On the other hand, when someone negative is coming at you constantly and demanding your support, not everyone can handle the dance that is required to manage that and keep oneself sane.

One of my dearest friends, in particular, went through what I essentially see now as a detox period from me. We are friends again, 5 years later, but it took a long time. And forgiveness has been required, on both sides.

</blockquote> Thank you Laura....it is a great thought indeed...I am working on that as well.....It takes people who have been in the lowest places to get to that wonderful point...It is where I hope to be in the future, really it is.....It is a great goal for all of us!!!!!

My life, the one that got me here, sometimes it doesn't even seem like it could of been a reality..

The only other witness to it my brother didn't make it.

But we have created a new life (you and I) complete with husbands and children!

Lol if you would of told me back then this would be my future? I would of laughed in your face.

In fact my brother when I was pregnant with my daughter told me we should not pass down our genes we are doomed and should let the bloodline die out.

I bet your children are pretty "normal" as are mine

that is our love, our ability to be vulnerable and let others in, shining through.

It gives me hope.. Which I need in the dark hours that still can creep in from time to time.

Madame your posts never fail to make me think and this one is certainly no exception.

I know EXACTLY where my problem started - it stemmed from childhood traumas that I won't go into here. I have had to do a TON of soul-searching. Especially recently when I realized my addiction is still not as under control as I like to pretend it is. It is an ongoing process - it will take us years and years to undo the mental and emotional damage we've done to ourselves - if even that, since much of THAT damage was stirred from outside forces. Life happens, poop happens, and tragedy happens. How we respond to it depends on that mental and emotional damage sometimes. For me, I eat. Even now - even when I CAN'T (and shouldn't) I eat. What once started as a defense mechanism has spring-boarded into a way of life.

The sleeve is a tool - not a problem-solver. I still have a lot of emotion to get past and eventually, I will. But until then, just keep swimming, just keep swimming ...

You're all wonderful. Truly.

Your honesty, vulnerability, resilience, pragmatism and optimism leaves me speechless.

What a comfort to know we are all the same. Who'da thunk it, hey?

Big love to you all x

</blockquote> Thank you Laura....it is a great thought indeed...I am working on that as well.....It takes people who have been in the lowest places to get to that wonderful point...It is where I hope to be in the future, really it is.....It is a great goal for all of us!!!!!

My life, the one that got me here, sometimes it doesn't even seem like it could of been a reality..

The only other witness to it my brother didn't make it.

But we have created a new life (you and I) complete with husbands and children!

Lol if you would of told me back then this would be my future? I would of laughed in your face.

In fact my brother when I was pregnant with my daughter told me we should not pass down our genes we are doomed and should let the bloodline die out.

I bet your children are pretty "normal" as are mine

that is our love, our ability to be vulnerable and let others in, shining through.

It gives me hope.. Which I need in the dark hours that still can creep in from time to time.

Well thank you..up until this point I did not cry...now a flood!!!!

I will cry with you. And we both will be ok

I will cry with you. And we both will be ok

:wub:

Wow, you guys have gone through a lot. My hat's off to you for staying sane.

My mom was great, loved her lots and just lost her this summer. My dad...well, he was mentally, if not physically abusive. I don't remember specific events because I think I've blocked them out. I just remember one where he was berating my sister. She was sharing a coke with him and held out both the can and the cup so he could choose which one he preferred. He blew up at her for not just handing him one or the other. If I remember right, he told her he hated her (among other things) during that tirade. I was furious with him for the first time of my life, but even then I was too afraid of him to stand up for my little sister.

Since then, time and distance have mellowed him, and I can actually enjoy being around him again for short periods of time....who would have thunk it! And...at age 83, he still shows no signs of slowing down. I do believe he will probably outlive me. There was a time when I was sure he was going to kill me, and many times that I secretly wished he would kick the bucket. My mom eventually divorced him, but only after us kids had grown up and moved away. She was scared of him too.

However, old scars didn't heal well, and I have a hard time forming and keeping relationships with men.

I married at age 38 to a guy who seemed to be calm and dependable. We had two kids and then promptly all intimacies were cut off. I was ok with that for a while, then began to wonder why. Turned out that he was not attracted to women. We divorced after 11 years, and I've been alone since. All my life I've never felt truly loved by any man, starting with dear old dad, and I think that is what caused me to turn to food for self pleasure. That....and the discovery of "Second Life" on the computer. I created a beautiful avatar who was instantly able to attract any man she wanted, and it was addictive. She got a lot of attention, but I didn't have to deal with any real life relationships with all their problems. Needless to say, I spent an enormous amount of time sitting on my couch in front of my laptop, and the weight piled on. Exercise was totally ignored, although I had always been somewhat in shape before.

At this point, I've been able to give up my "Second Life", although I still keep in touch with the friends I've made through that virtual world. I'm hoping that by getting the sleeve, I can get my eating under control, and can eventually start to exercise again without causing my knees and legs agony. I am wondering though, if I will ever in my lifetime find a real (non virtual) man who will love me for who I am, and..... will actually make me feel wanted, loved, cherished... all of those romantical things that I feel that I've missed out on. If not, then I guess I'll be content with being alone. It's ok, safe, but definitely not the best of all worlds.

Wow, you guys have gone through a lot. My hat's off to you for staying sane.

My mom was great, loved her lots and just lost her this summer. My dad...well, he was mentally, if not physically abusive. I don't remember specific events because I think I've blocked them out. I just remember one where he was berating my sister. She was sharing a coke with him and held out both the can and the cup so he could choose which one he preferred. He blew up at her for not just handing him one or the other. If I remember right, he told her he hated her (among other things) during that tirade. I was furious with him for the first time of my life, but even then I was too afraid of him to stand up for my little sister.

Since then, time and distance have mellowed him, and I can actually enjoy being around him again for short periods of time....who would have thunk it! And...at age 83, he still shows no signs of slowing down. I do believe he will probably outlive me. There was a time when I was sure he was going to kill me, and many times that I secretly wished he would kick the bucket. My mom eventually divorced him, but only after us kids had grown up and moved away. She was scared of him too.

However, old scars didn't heal well, and I have a hard time forming and keeping relationships with men.

I married at age 38 to a guy who seemed to be calm and dependable. We had two kids and then promptly all intimacies were cut off. I was ok with that for a while, then began to wonder why. Turned out that he was not attracted to women. We divorced after 11 years, and I've been alone since. All my life I've never felt truly loved by any man, starting with dear old dad, and I think that is what caused me to turn to food for self pleasure. That....and the discovery of "Second Life" on the computer. I created a beautiful avatar who was instantly able to attract any man she wanted, and it was addictive. She got a lot of attention, but I didn't have to deal with any real life relationships with all their problems. Needless to say, I spent an enormous amount of time sitting on my couch in front of my laptop, and the weight piled on. Exercise was totally ignored, although I had always been somewhat in shape before.

At this point, I've been able to give up my "Second Life", although I still keep in touch with the friends I've made through that virtual world. I'm hoping that by getting the sleeve, I can get my eating under control, and can eventually start to exercise again without causing my knees and legs agony. I am wondering though, if I will ever in my lifetime find a real (non virtual) man who will love me for who I am, and..... will actually make me feel wanted, loved, cherished... all of those romantical things that I feel that I've missed out on. If not, then I guess I'll be content with being alone. It's ok, safe, but definitely not the best of all worlds.

You have been through a lot yourself little one! Your father was not a loving and compassionate human being. Your fear and anger clouded your future so that you could not find someone that loved you truly for you. Just as much as us..Just a different story.

I am glad you kicked the virtual world and have started to take control of the real one...I hope and pray that you will find love...someone who will share with you what it is like to be a man and not a bully...

You never know where you will end up or with who....be careful who you chose though we tend to go for what we know best and in your case it could be your fathers personality...So when the time comes dig deep and protect yourself and find the right person for you..you deserve someone like that!!!

Wow, you guys have gone through a lot. My hat's off to you for staying sane.

My mom was great, loved her lots and just lost her this summer. My dad...well, he was mentally, if not physically abusive. I don't remember specific events because I think I've blocked them out. I just remember one where he was berating my sister. She was sharing a coke with him and held out both the can and the cup so he could choose which one he preferred. He blew up at her for not just handing him one or the other. If I remember right, he told her he hated her (among other things) during that tirade. I was furious with him for the first time of my life, but even then I was too afraid of him to stand up for my little sister.

Since then, time and distance have mellowed him, and I can actually enjoy being around him again for short periods of time....who would have thunk it! And...at age 83, he still shows no signs of slowing down. I do believe he will probably outlive me. There was a time when I was sure he was going to kill me, and many times that I secretly wished he would kick the bucket. My mom eventually divorced him, but only after us kids had grown up and moved away. She was scared of him too.

However, old scars didn't heal well, and I have a hard time forming and keeping relationships with men.

I married at age 38 to a guy who seemed to be calm and dependable. We had two kids and then promptly all intimacies were cut off. I was ok with that for a while, then began to wonder why. Turned out that he was not attracted to women. We divorced after 11 years, and I've been alone since. All my life I've never felt truly loved by any man, starting with dear old dad, and I think that is what caused me to turn to food for self pleasure. That....and the discovery of "Second Life" on the computer. I created a beautiful avatar who was instantly able to attract any man she wanted, and it was addictive. She got a lot of attention, but I didn't have to deal with any real life relationships with all their problems. Needless to say, I spent an enormous amount of time sitting on my couch in front of my laptop, and the weight piled on. Exercise was totally ignored, although I had always been somewhat in shape before.

At this point, I've been able to give up my "Second Life", although I still keep in touch with the friends I've made through that virtual world. I'm hoping that by getting the sleeve, I can get my eating under control, and can eventually start to exercise again without causing my knees and legs agony. I am wondering though, if I will ever in my lifetime find a real (non virtual) man who will love me for who I am, and..... will actually make me feel wanted, loved, cherished... all of those romantical things that I feel that I've missed out on. If not, then I guess I'll be content with being alone. It's ok, safe, but definitely not the best of all worlds.

You're a remarkable woman and you will find your nirvana. Never forget that...

Thank you for sharing x

Dang, y'all are all making me cry! It's pathetic, kinda goes to show we ALL have skeletons…

Great thread, been reading, thinking and reflecting on where I sit on all of this. Seems there's more that draws us together than just our weight.

I blame no one for the problems I experienced as an adult. I chose to eat the way I did, I was morbidly obese because I blindly filled my face, bad food choices, compulsive eating. None of this was done out of ignorance of the consequences. But my childhood and upbringing were what set me off on this path, although it has taken me years for me to understand that.

My sleeve has allowed me to get off the frantic food merrygoround and completely take the focus off food (by limiting my intake and ability to eat badly). In doing that, it's allowed my brain to start processing things that I have pushed away for years by self-medicating with food.

Boy, that's been painful. Whilst I have been happier in the last 7 months than I think I have ever been in my life, I have also cried more. Not because of what's been happening around me but because of what is going on inside my head as the realisation of what I have done to myself over the years - and why - has dawned on me.

My mother was mentally abusive. And overweight. And she wanted me in her image. Which is what she got because I was so screwed up by her behaviour which focused on breaking every person close to her.

But I fought against that once I had children and used my experiences to ensure that as a mother, I was everything my mum wasn't. Looking at my son, I am so proud that I haven't visited the sins of the mother on him; he's confident, happy and loving, a genuinely good man.

I am still untangling myself inside. It really helps that I now look at myself and for the first time ever say I love me, not just how I look but for the positive energy I feel. I truly believe I have a future that can be happy. But sad that it has taken me 52 years to get there and that's when I cry because I have less time ahead of me than behind me to live it to the full....but I will!

My sister said to me recently that we have turned out pretty good despite our upbringing. It's the first time we have even acknowledged what happened to us. That gives me hope too. It also makes me feel less alone, I didn't imagine it, I wasn't weak turning to food for the comfort I didn't get elsewhere but I am now owning my life. It's good and getting better.

Thanks Revs, complicated and complex area... Still thinking it over....

One thing I do want to say....yes my mother should have never had children. I know because she told me so on countless occasions...every time she got angry she let me know what a mistake I was.

I won't go into all the details, but here's what bugs me. My brother and I were both victims of her uncontrolled anger and frustration, and his eating habits were as bad as mine. And yet he has never weighed more than 170 pounds in his life. Why? The man could live on fruit loops and not gain weight. I hate him.

One thing I do want to say....yes my mother should have never had children. I know because she told me so on countless occasions...every time she got angry she let me know what a mistake I was.

I won't go into all the details, but here's what bugs me. My brother and I were both victims of her uncontrolled anger and frustration, and his eating habits were as bad as mine. And yet he has never weighed more than 170 pounds in his life. Why? The man could live on fruit loops and not gain weight. I hate him.

Every one is different, everyone handles things by going different ways... Out of the eventual 12 siblings only 2 of us were fat.....only 2 of us used food as an outlet for our pain and protection...Luck of the draw maybe but I am sure that he suffers in another way that you would be upset about....Maybe there are far more psycho's in this world then I thought...Maybe it was because they were not treated well and they did not break the cycle, and saw no need to...

We are responsible for the way we treat others and she owes a great debt for sure...I can't imagine hurting my children on purpose, esp. for pleasure....Like an abomination to me!! Sorry Butterthebean....