marjon9

There is no lack of understanding about the pro-lifer's position. Everyone in the world understands that pro-lifer's think that abortion is killing babies, and that this is why pro-lifer's believe that government intervention is required. The issue here is not a lack of understanding of the pro-life position. The issue here, instead, is a lack of agreement with the pro-life position. People who support a woman's right to choose feel just as passionately as you do. They are simply advocating that the priority should be given to the grown up, adult human being who is actually alive in the world today, facing real problems. Of course, your response is to say, "no, no, wait, a fetus is a human being!!" You have a right to that opinion. The thing is, though, pro-choice advocates do not agree with you. The problem here is not that pro-choice advocates do no understand that you "really really, seriously, and passionately" think a fetus is baby. And I would also say the same thing to you that I said to gadgetlady about some of your arguments. You diminish your credibility when you make silly arguments, just like she diminishes her credibility when she does the same thing. It is simply a silly argument to claim that abortion should be illegal because you are sure that many adults out there believe they should be able to kill each other. That is just ridiculous, and it takes away from the admitted strenth of some of your other arguments. When people believe they have a right to an abortion, they are not arguing that they have a right to kill a "person." That is not the argument being made. The argument is that the fetus is not a "person."

Frankly, I am not surprised that you "don't doubt it's true." But the fact is, this is just another example of your usual method of argument. You find extreme examples on the far reaches of imagination and believability, and then forward them as if they are the norm (like women having abortions as a rite of passage). You then argue that "abortions are bad because women are using abortions as a rite of passage," that "baby killing is a booming business," and that "abortion clinics are bad because they are full of 'ringers.'" But of course, all of that is nonsense. Even if the far-fetched and unlikely scenarios you present actually did occur in the most rare and unusual situation, they have no relevance to the main stream issues and arguments on both sides. Again, I have to wonder why you do this. You are obviously an intelligent and educated woman. Why do you stoop to these far-fetched and unbelievable extreme examples to support your points? There are many reasonable, mainstream arguments against abortion. I don't agree with them, but I recognize that a well-meaning, intelligent person could disagree with me. But it is just silly to argue that "abortion clinics are bad because they are full of "ringers" who sit around full time day after day trying to trick confused women into having abortions with drugs and pro-life horror stories in order to support the booming business of baby killin." That kind of argument is just ridiculous. It diminishes your credibility significantly, but somehow, you are not able to see that.

You know, paladin may have been right. What is the topic that homosexual liberal atheists would be most likely to discuss? Soft sheets.

I really like my 4 ct sheets. They're a little rough, but when I can't sleep I can play tic-tac-toe.

Here's a description of grits I found on the web. Usually a Breakfast item in the US Southern region. Made from the kernel of corn. When corn has been soaked in lye and the casing has been removed it becomes Hominy. The lye is rinsed out very well and the corn is left to harden. Then the swollen hominy is ground up to the texture of tiny pellets. When boiled with Water, milk and butter it becomes a Cereal similar to cream of wheat. It's used as a side dish for a good old fashioned Southern breakfast. ... I lived in Birmingham, Alabama for a couple years and I did the grits thing. I now "comprehend" grits. I love 'em. My favorite is cheese Grits. But actually, you can eat grits in many ways. There's Molasses Grits, Mushroom Grits, Grits with Butter, Fried Grits, Grits with Raisins, chicken Grits, Pork Grits, Grits Patties, Grits and Okra .......

So, the question is, if green went out on a date with the Headless Horseman and drank Johhnie neat, could they still drive legally in Sleepy Hollow?

I am the least expert person alive on the issues raised in this thread, but just to put in my .02, I would have thought that the combination of band and pregnancy has more to do with providing proper nutrition for the developing baby, and not so much to do with the focus on weight loss. To me it does seem like a concern to have a device inside your body that is restricting intake of nutrition through mechanical means while at the same time being pregnant and having a baby inside that needs above average levels of nutrition. Perhaps it is enough to say that the pregnant mother will get a complete unfill. But I can say that in my case, I've never had any fill at all and I still have a lot of restriction. I also think that just because someone got pregnant with the band and had it all work out OK, this does not necessarily mean that every person will have the same positive result with a pregnancy that occurs while being banded. I just think that this is a serious medical issue that needs more careful consideration than simply three or four anecdotal responses. Anecdotal responses are very valuable, but they are not the complete answer. I don't think it is necessarily great advice to tell this woman to just disregard what the nurse says. I am not trying to be a party pooper here. I hope Donna Marie has her baby and everything works out great. I would just recommend a little bit more of a thorough, fact-based investigation before making this final decision. But then, like I said, I am the most un-expert person in the world on these issues.

No, seriously. You can only eat chicken. But don't worry, because there's a lot of variety. You can eat Chicken Enchilladas, Chicken Pot Pie, Chicken Pita, Grilled Chicken, Baked Chicken, Fiesta Chicken, Bronx Firehouse Stuffed Chicken Breasts, Chipotle Marinated Chicken, Mexican Skillet Chicken, Breast of Chicken Rosina, Gold Coast Breast of Chicken, Chicken Kiev, Baked Salsa Ranch Chicken Breasts, Macadamia Chicken, Latin-Scented Chicken Breast, Chicken Pepperoni Breasts, Chicken Breasts with Lemon, Chipotle Chicken, Chicken Chili, Mexican Chicken-Chili Tart, Hannah's Roast Chicken in Adobo Marinade, Chicken Chalupas, Chicken Fajitas, Fiesta Chicken Rolls, Spicy Taco Chicken, Amazon Fried Chicken Breasts, Chicken Kotletki with Sour Cream Sauce, Chicken Avocado Melt, Casablanca Chicken, Smoked Paprika Chicken, Bacon and cheese Stuffed Chicken, Chicken Tamales, Chicken in Cilantro Sauce, Creamy Chicken Enchiladas, Chicken Amandine, Chicken-Chile Cheesecake, Chicken Sour Cream Enchiladas, Cheesy Chicken with Chiles, Chicken Fajita Casserole, Annapolis Valley Chicken, Autumn Chicken Breasts, Chicken in Haides, Bacon-Wrapped Chicken, Shredded Pueblo Chicken, Opryland Stuffed Chicken, Mexican Style Chicken Kiev, Mayan Festival Party Chicken, Crash Site Chicken, Chicken Paola, Camembert Chicken, and Chicken Road Kill, to name a few.

Unfortunately, people who have been banded can eat only chicken. But don't worry, there are a lot of good recipes. There's Chicken Cacciatore, Lemon Chicken, Chicken Parmesan, Teriyaki Chicken, Chicken salad, Fried Chicken, Mushroom Chicken, etc. Heck, you can even have Chicken Grits. Just kidding. The way it seems to work with the band is, it's different for everyone. And it can even be different for the same person at different times of day, and different amounts of fill, etc. For the most part, there are no foods that you cannot eat with the band. On the other hand, for weight loss purposes, the band works best if you eat solid Protein items first, like meats that you like (crab should be fine if it goes down OK, you just have to try), and then vegies next and then carbs, etc. That way you are full the longest on the least food, while still getting your protein. People say this is the way to make the band work best for you. So, it's a process of trial and error, adjustment, etc. If you find that you are losing weight OK, you can probably eat more variety and perhaps even "cheat" a little bit. If you find that you are not losing well, you probably need to focus in more on the traditional band diet (protein first, vegies, etc). Regarding grits, some people say that you need to be careful at first with things like grits and oatmeal, since they can expand inside once you eat them. So go slow with those. You've only just been banded. And talk to your doctor about this. And don't forget, if all else fails, you can always just eat a lot of chicken. There's Chicken Marsala, Chicken Piccata, Chicken Alfredo, Sweet and Sour Chicken, Chicken Stew, Chicken Soup, Chicken Ceasar, Chicken Wrap, Stuffed Chicken, Roasted Chicken, Chicken Fricasee, Poached Chicken, Chicken a la King, Bar B Q Chicken .....

MsDad, your post is much appreciated. Unfortunately, that type of testimony does not seem to be enough to change or enlighten any minds. Certain types of conservative religious folks read that, and could read the same from thousands of others, and yet still come away from the experience feeling like they know better because a) the Bible says so, and they know 2 people who swear they were "cured." I'm convinced that the best chance there is for enlightenment in this area comes from people like you who tell their stories. I think this is the best chance to break through the rhetoric and make a human connection in a way that allows people to understand. And in fairness, I do believe there has been some progress in recent years, both socially and legally. In another 20 or 50 years, there should be a sea change on the whole issue. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

Well, let me put it this way. I do have my shoes custom made by Rossignol Skis, Inc.

Keep in mind, however, that the well-known naturalist, Euell Gibbons, reminded us that "you know, many part of a pine tree are edible".

It's actually 3.2 a day, not 320. The annual total is 1168, not 116,800. And the point many are making is that these are not viable babies. I realize these are insignificant details in the way you think about things. This, after all, still represents a political victory against those evil liberals. So the facts are not really that important.

Fundamentally, I think of Sanjaya as the Teenage Mutant Ninja Idol. http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Articles/20070328/285.malakar.032807.jpg

I say we take a poll. If more than 50% of the people on the forum think Jack should move, he'll have until midnight on May 1, 2007 to be out of his house.

Would that be Cho W. Bush?

Good one, synicalchick. I have two dogs and two cats. What more needs to be said?

Hey TOM, Hippo Birdy Two Ewes

I could definitely support gun control for all. I just have a hard time doing it selectively based on subjective criteria. With this guy Cho, perpaps the criteria were not entirely subjective. By the time someone is placed in a mental hospital, perhaps they should not have a gun. But what about his creative writing where he fantasized about killing people and wrote things that his teachers found "disturbing." Is that enough? I have a hard time with that. But again, I can certainly support gun control for all.

So who will be the one who gets to say "Hey, your thoughts have crossed over now from normal angst and frustration with life's challenges, and in my opinion you have now started fantasizing about killing people to the degree that you are now forbidden from doing something that is otherwise legal, even though you have done nothing wrong." Who gets to make that call? To the extent that you are saying we need to try to pay more attention to the people around us and get help for someone who is in trouble, for our own safety. I agree with that. But I don't know how you pick the committee who gets to decide someone is "fantasizing" too much, and they should have their freedom and legal rights curtailed because "I" say so.

"LOL! Does it hurt THAT much to agree with me???" I have to admit, in my case it really does hurt THAT much to agree with you. But on this issue I do. I would say my views would be similar to those of Carlene. I don't feel like I have a right to tell other people how they need to live their lives. No matter how much I hate abortion, I am simply not in a position to tell a woman that she must make the choice I think is right. "It is truly barbaric and incredibly violent. But I guess if you're a doctor who kills babies for a living, you'd have to be pretty calloused to life." This is why it is so hard for me to agree with you, because of statements like that. Yes, partial birth abortion is a truly barbaric and violent act, but to trivialize the hard and painful choices a woman and her doctor must make in that flippant way is, in my view, totally inappropriate. I've never met anyone who was in favor of abortion. There are just some who believe it is an acceptable, if incredibly difficult, decision that should be legal. There are just times, when the fetus is in the early stages of formation, that I believe a woman has a right to make a choice free from my supervision.

I realize this is probably politically incorrect, and may even provoke angry responses, but I can't help but notice that there is virtually no coverage in the news of the 170 civilians killed today in Baghdad bombings. On CNN.com there are about 25 stories about the incident at VA Tech that occurred two days ago, and just one line about today's harvest of souls in Iraq. I have a hard time with that because I feel like we are largely responsible for the unimaginable terror and heartache taking place in Iraq right now. And I feel like the Iraqi's lives are worth just as much as those of American college students. In my view there is not much we can do about a madman like Cho Seung-Hui. People in this thread have said that people like Cho can be spotted in advance and dealt with. I'm very skeptical about that. I've known my share of weirdo loners. None of them ended up killing anyone. What are we supposed to do every time someone acts weird? Put them in jail in advance of any wrongdoing? But of course the situation is different in Iraq. In the Iraqi situation, we can actually do something to stop this. So, to me, the story that needs to be talked about is the one where you can actually do something about it. Fortunately for the world Cho Seung-Hui is gone and no one needs to be afraid anymore. Unfortunately for the world, Cho W. Bush is still president. And as a result, millions of our fellow human beings must live a life of unspeakable horror and terror.

Don't forget, my son, all you have to do is "choose" to be attracted to women.