BJean

I wish you would have taken the time to dissect those writings and researched what was written - and understood them as the exaggeration and misstatements and innuendo that it is full of. We can both go to places and post links where people write all kinds of B.S. about both candidates - it does not make them accurate or worthwhile pieces of reporting. Senator Obama has not lied about his relationship with Ayers or Rezko. He has told about his work and friendships and knowledge of these men. Last night John McCain, in an interview with Larry King, ranted and raved about the Rezko connection. Insinuating over and over that Rezko is a member of the PLO. And insinuating in the loudest, most indignant terms that Obama has a connection to the PLO. Or he said, I don't know, maybe he doesn't... but we need to know! Larry King later reported that not only is Rezko not a member of the PLO, he and Senator Obama have clashed openly over Rezko's discussion of certain Palestinian complaints. Larry King went on to say that after the careful research that they have done, there has been no additional contact or political relationship between the two men. That's again, just what this campaign is all about. They raise the question but they don't listen to the answer. They accuse Obama of all manner of anti-American, terrorist activity. When it is shown to them that they are wrong, they don't listen and furthermore they don't even change their rehtoric. That's blatantly dishonest politics and I hope most of the American people see it for what it is. And see McCain for what he is: a frustrated, angry, seething old man, not too good to pull out any dirty trick his camp can come up with to besmerch Senator Obama's very good record of achievements.

I didn't author the above - it was found by a very quick google I did.

Now, It is time to post Senator Obama’s record from the Library of Congress.I have to mention that Senator Obama’s list is too substantive, one is coalesced to categorize. Since its a lot, remember you can go to the Library of Congress website, and check it out yourself, but I am just summarizing his first 8 months. During Senator Obama’s first 8 eight months of elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced 233 bills regarding healthcare reform, 125 bills on poverty and public assistance, 112 bills on crime fighting, 97 economic bills, 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills, 21 ethics reform bills, 15 gun control, 6 veterans affairs and many others. In his first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included: (1)the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 that became LAW, (2)The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act that became LAW, (3)The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act that passed the Senate, (4)The 2007 Government Ethics Bill that became LAW, (5)The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill that is in committee just to name a few. In all since he entered the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096. An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no legislative record. Read the facts and not emotion.

Good post, Florida Pete!

Jack I just readjusted my reading glasses and see that what you were doing was sarcastically comparing Senator Obama's suggestion that our young people serve our country in some way in order to get a tuition break, being no different than the draft. But turn up your hearing aid dude, he hasn't suggested "mandatory" service. Have you only checked part of his record, as per your "performance" comment? Because so far he has been one of the most effective Senators we have. All the trash talk that the Republicans have done to besmerch Senator Obama's religious faith, criticize his desire to move forward in this country in a direction that will engage citizens instead of disenfranchising them, make changes in how we handle the economy so that the wealthiest in the country are not rewarded with exorbitent tax cuts, the insurance companies are not able to take us to the cleaners and control our health care system any longer, and for the Republicans to even say outrageous things about the people he knows and is friends with... is absolutely obsene, dishonest campaigning. Par for the course maybe, but good grief I hope you don't believe all that! I know some of you have bought it hook, line and sinker. Oh yeah, I forgot, you don't believe anyone can possibly be a good politician because all politicians are bad. Just like the broad statement the government is bad. Wake up people. Government is necessary. Politicians are necessary. Ctiticism can be a good thing. It can help us find ways of improving this country. Unless all you do is criticize and offer no real solutions. That's a waste of time. If you don't like one party's politics, you can just say you don't like their plan. But in this contest, there's only one candidate who is being truthful about his plan for the country. Only one man who has spent most of this race outlining exactly what he proposes to help get our nation strong again. That's Senator Obama. McCain has slung mud for the majority of this race and has been less than thruthful about his plans for change. He tells us that he wants change. He tells us that he's a maverick and doesn't like his party's policies. But he doesn't spend his time explaining his plan in detail. What he does say is that his theory of rewarding the wealthy will eventually help middle America but he doesn't explain how in the world that will happen. Because the "performance" we have seen for the past 8 years, the "performance" McCain has shown us and is promising to continue, is giving the real tax breaks to the wealthiest in America. Not only has that Republican ideology not helped middle America by providing the jobs he promises, it has nearly brought down the collapse of our entire economy. So if that talk does it for you - and that kind of performance is what you base your vote on, then Senator Obama is definitely not for you.

Ok you Liberalists who are calling me names for spelling things out in detail about what a dishonest race McCain is running. Go line by line and spell out what I'm wrong about. Don't use the political ploy of going off subject and ranting about what you don't like about the Democrats - tell me exactly what is right about the Republican allegations against Senator Obama as a person.And then go one step further and explain why his policies are bad - but don't just use the republican tactic of accusations and innuendo - give us the real facts. Put your money where your right wing mouth is.

Beth you're right, I am not very thick skinned when it comes to the way the Republicans have chosen to run their race and instead of telling the truth about what their political agenda really is, they attack, attack, attack. I do not have a quarrel with anyone exposing the truth that Senator Obama knows and has Bill Ayers as a friend. What you don't get is that the tone and manner in which the Republicans have characterized that friendship is way, way, way out of line! You don't hear the Democrats making outlandish charges about McCain's relationships with right wing extremists who have been responsible for criminal felonies committed in this country. And now McCain is trying to distance himself from George W. Bush - as if that were true. They are both from the same party and they share a whole lot of the same agenda. To behave as if he has a completely different agenda in the areas that are important to this country right now, is not correct. Do you know about McCain's actual military service? Or is what you know pretty much limited to the part about him having been a tortured POW? Have you ever questioned the real reason behind his not leaving the POW camp when he was offered the chance? Why wouldn't a good soldier want to get back into battle to try to save his fellow fliers? Do you know McCain's academic record? Do you know how many planes that he's been in that have crashed? When I hear him continuing to refer to himself as a maverick, I think of a very old Tom Cruise in Top Gun. Remember Maverick's plane crash? Remember why they called him Maverick? Do you know how he met his wife and how he divorced his other wife? The reason you don't hear Obama slandering McCain personally is because Obama is the better man with a much more honest campaign focused on the issues and what he proposes. He points out when McCain has not told the truth when he's on the podium, but he doesn't accuse McCain of hanging out with felons in an effort to make us all believe that McCain's a bad person (who would commit a felon) because he hangs with felons. And he doesn't accuse McCain of being too old (as opposed to McCain's claim that Obama is too inexperienced.) Not only does Senator Obama refuse to use age discrimination in this election, he also has not brought up the fact that McCain has had 4 episodes of cancer - a lethal form of cancer. Even though some doctors have suggested that Americans should have knowledge of the results of McCain's latest cancer test. So to answer your charge, yes I can understand why, if you've bought into the outlandish accusations that Republicans have used in this campaign, you'd like to paint me with the brush of ignorance, but I am not ignorant. I am informed. On both sides of the ticket. Btw, to set the record straight, asking the wealthiest percent of people and corporations to pay the same amount of taxes that they paid before Bush gave them huge tax breaks, is not socialistic. Paying taxes is not socialism. Fairness does not equate to socialism, no matter how loud and long the Republicans say it. What Senator Obama proposes has to do with fairness. I wish McCain would be more open and honest about what his plans are. I promise you, what he proposes has nothing to do with fairness. It has everything to do with a small percentage of the people in America and it has to do with greed. Not taxation without representation - pure and simple greed. And Ghost, your outline of what you'd like to see Obama do as president is exactly what I expect him to do and that is why I do not hesitate to vote for him. We certainly know what we'll be getting with McCain and even if Obama is unable to do everything you suggested, we'll still be better off as a country than if McCain were president.

So Beth, if you think that Senator Obama's service on a Republican appointed board in Chicago, with Bill Ayers, constitutes him hanging with terrorists (or that because Bill Ayers held a gathering at his house for young Harvard Graduate - tops of his class - to show his support for a promising public servant constitutes hanging with terrorists) then I wonder what you think of John McCain hanging with G. Gordon Liddy - a convicted felon, a Watergate burgler and a mastermind of illegal dirty tricks in the Nixon administration? McCain has spent more time and accepted more money from G. Gordon Liddy than has been disclosed. I have no doubt that Ollie North supports McCain all the way and probably is in love with Sarah Palin. Although I do not listen to anything Ollie North has to say since I was present when he was on the Phil Donahue show when he tried to unsuccessfully explain his participation in the Iran Contra affair.

Well gadget that was so civil, it makes me want to respond to you. I did work for a Democratic legislator and I did work for the Democratic Attorney General in Virginia. Several assistants to the General openly voted Republican, without fear of remonstrance from anyone. I am married to a Republican whose family is staunch Republican and who are also as Catholic as people can be. I have great respect for them and I wouldn't have married my husband or become a member of that family if I didn't love them and want to listen to them and understand their thinking on both religious and political issues. I grew up in the Methodist Church. Went to Sunday school every Sunday, went to Church Camp in the summers and taught Sunday School when I was older. Later I learned to love the doctrine of the Disciples of Christ Church and became very involved in Church activites and taught at their Church camp and sang in the Choir. When I was 18, I was swept off my feet by a Southern Baptist young man, fell in love with him and we got married after going through counseling by the pastor, attending Church twice weekly and ultimately I was baptized in the Baptist Church. We figured out pretty quickly that we were too young and should never have made such a big step when we really didn't understand what we each needed from a marriage, a spouse or even life. We divorced after 4 years. Later btw, the Catholic Tribunal conducted a study and that marriage was annulled in the Catholic Church. My father was a Democrat and he and my mother were very active in local and state politics. Both wonderful, socially conscious people, whom I adored and respected and whom I miss every day. I have studied several other faiths in depth, have read the Bible and although I am certainly no religious expert, I do have a pretty good grasp of what it's all about. I know that Jesus believed in helping the less fortunate. I know that he disliked and did not respect the wealthy who took advantage of the weak. I know that he practiced tolerance and peace and love. When my father-in-law, a life-long staunch Republican and supporter of the Pope and the Catholic Church, spoke out a couple of years ago against the policies of George W. Bush, I knew I wasn't just being a stubborn Democrat by believing the same thing. Well as further proof, even George W.'s parents don't support all of his decisions. (Yes, I did vote for Herbert Walker - in fact, I have good friends who are close to the elder Bush's.) You say you lean to the right of the Republcans. I believe that the extreme right of the Republican party has gone off the deep end. They do not seem to practice the teachings of the Lord and yet they claim to be good patriotic Christians. Well I'm not accusing you of having hate in your heart by any means, but I do believe that some of the most extreme right wing in this country would like nothing better than to assassinate a man like Senator Obama. Which is what this thread is about. I believe that Senator Obama is a man who is capable of following in the footsteps of Christ's teachings far better than John McCain or Sarah Palin. They are spouting hateful, devisive rehtoric that is detrimental to the health of our country. They support the money changers and they lie to the weak. They want to continue the war and they accuse Senator Obama of not being supportive of the troops. That is a terrible lie, among all their other lies, and although I said above that I cannot forgive them, that is not really true. If they were to recant their lies, admit the sins they have perpetrated on the American public, I could certainly forgive them. However they show no signs of ever standing up for anything good and pure. That's not my whole story, just part of it. Care to ask anymore questions?

gadget, have you ever voted Democratic? I have voted Republican, although it's really none of your business for whom I have voted or for which party affiliation I usually support. Beth what you don't seem to understand about Senator Obama's plan is that he doesn't want to punish corporations - he only wants them to pay their fair share. Under the Republicans they have enjoyed huge tax breaks and McCain wants to give them even more. That's because he says he believes that if the corporations have to pay more (even just their fair share) that it will mean fewer jobs for Americans. In the past 8 years at the very least, that has not been the way it has worked. So why should we allow McCain to continue the very thing that has brought our country to this incredibly low point in our history. Did McCain have any great plan to help fix this financial mess? When he blathered on about needing to get back to Washington so he could help solve the problem, do you think that he came up with anything to solve it? During the meeting he rushed back for, he sat through the entire meeting without saying anything. Senator Obama asked all the questions and voiced his concerns. When it was coming to an end and they asked McCain if he had any questions or input, he said he didn't. So big deal. What was all that about? I hear what you're saying about your fears about Senator Obama. They are the same fears that the Republicans have peddled in every election in recent history. This time that have really gone out on a limb and called the opposition "socialists" which has, I will admit, put the fear in a good number of people. Just like the fear mongering they've done about Obama's association with terrorists. But they don't just stop at that. They have done everything they can think of to smear Senator Obama. It has been one dirty, filthy, embarrassing campaign designed to personally assult a man who has done so many great things in his career. The other thing that infuriates me is that they not only are wrong about Obama's plans for unifying this country, they have done everything in their power to incite anger and hate and I really, really can't forgive them for that. You seem like a perfectly reasonable and intelligent person. That should tell us something about this election. It has divided this country and it is effectively turning us against each other. We can't let them do that to us. We have to learn how to work together. We can't allow the Democrats penalize anybody for making a living. And we can't allow the Republicans to continue to pad the pockets of the filthy rich in this country at the expense of middle class Americans which means, losing their jobs and winding up paying an unfair share of the taxes that are needed to run this country. Obviously I don't have the answers either. But I know that you will vote for the people you believe are the lesser of evils. I have the confidence in knowing that when I vote for Senator Obama that I will be voting for someone I actually admire and respect and feel will be able to make this country as strong as it once was.

Carrie I'm not voting for Senator Obama in spite of his views on women's rights, I agree with him that this is not a cut and dried issue. It is a very complicated issue that makes it imperative that we keep women's right to choose legal. He understands about the Consitutionality of women having the right to have control over their bodies and the unconstitutionality of other people wanting to exert their own control over women's bodies. He has been willing to be open and honest about his views on this issue and he is willing to go to bat for women's rights. He will not be deterred by someone in the back of the room shouting, baby killer! He knows that Roe v. Wade is more important than just one side of the question. I know it is offensive to some people that he wants to keep abortion legal, but this issue is something that goes to the very core of women's rights and I am very pleased that we have someone who will stand up for us.

Congratulations on getting your LB date!! Let me get this straight. Who do you blame for all of the illegal aliens in this country? And you believe that if we boycotted one day, all stopped paying our taxes, it would do exactly what to this country? Neither side listens to us because we aren't saying anything to them. We're crabbing to ourselves and our friends and all agree that pork barrel spending has to go. We agree that our laws need to be enforced at our borders. We resent the immigration laws that have been ignored. We resent the fact that our government does actually encourage (for years and years) illegals to come into this country and take advantage of the system we have set up to take care of them. We resent the fact that our public school system has gone so far astray from the basics and that nothing serious has been done to improve them in such a very long time. We resent that we and our children have such enormous student loans by the time we graduate from college there's no hope of paying them off in a reasonable length of time. Some of us have decided that we don't like the way our tax dollars are being spent in Washington. But we continue to elect the same leaders year after year. We duck our heads and pretend that voter fraud and manipulation of votes hasn't really happened and so we don't rise up and demand an accounting of why we can't have an honest election in this country. And you think the answer is to refuse to pay your taxes? And you want to elect someone who assures you that he is going to not only reward the men at the top of the heap in this country like his predecessor did, but he wants to give them even more because what? rewarding corporations has worked so well for us? You are so overtaxed now, you believe that under John McCain he's going to make it all better for you? You BELIEVE that? McCain says Senator Obama doesn't account for his proposed new plans for this country. That is an outright lie. Obama has done his homework. He already knows where he needs to cut and he isn't proposing trillions of new dollars spent on new programs. That's what McCain is planning. Just like George Bush has done to us. John McCain has not revealed a plan - he's only told us he's going to take a red pencil to go line by line and cut out the waste. Why should we trust him to do that? McCain and the Republicans preach no new taxes - or even a tax break. But that is not what they do. Read your history book. Don't take my word for it. Check out the economies of the Republican dominated White Houses and Congress. Gasoline always goes up. Jobs go away. Illegals come in by the thousands. I've lived through it. You way solves nothing. Taking a chance on a man who is intelligent, honest and has a well-defined plan to improve our country is what we should be thinking about. His very real plan to start greening up America is a mighty ambitious plan that fills us with hope for a better future. More jobs, cleaner air, less dependence on foreign oil. McCain wants to drill more oil wells - and in the Alaskan Wilderness first and foremost - so that the 600,000 or so citizens of Alaska can get rich (and by the way, they do not want to share it with the other states). He wants to go about using more coal. He says he wants alternative energy, and his mantra is the same mantra that the big oil companies advertise on TV - but they do not spell out any real plan to git 'er done. I do not trust them for one minute. They have proven who they are and where their values lie. Their values are not all about improving this country. They are all about greed and lining their pockets that are already overflowing with Americans tax dollars and our money from the gas pumps. Have you bothered to notice that McCain spends his time talking about what is wrong with Obama and hardly ever says anything definitive about what he can do to improve America. All of his plans are veiled with talk about how he's gonna look out for Joe the Plumber. Well my friend, I'm not buying that Republican rehtoric any longer. I'm taking a chance on the Democrats. This year, they are worthy.

Green, thanks! I am glad that someone understands my point.

Hey Beth I like your style too! Your logic on the other hand, not so much. You're the one who is saying that both sides are bad. I think that there are bad people on both sides, just like there are bad government policies. But just because there are some bad government policies does not make all government policies bad. I would not ever say that there aren't bad people who took advantage of the lending institutions' tricky loans, but I am also not blaming JUST the homeowners in this collapse of the housing market, as some people are. All too often the Republicans have used the same logic you seem to be using to get them out of taking responsibility for the things that they actually did do that has hurt middle America. They also like to use the old welfare argument to make people think that paying taxes is wrong. In fact, Joe the Plumber has bought into that rehtoric to such an extent, that he has refused to pay his taxes. There's a whole movement out there of people who think it is righteous to not pay their taxes. But poor Joe doesn't seem to get it that he wouldn't have a country like this if people didn't pay to get things done. He wouldn't have a public library, the military to shock and awe Iraq, the police to take care of killers and robbers and law breakers of all kinds, he wouldn't be able to depend on the fire department to save his home if it caught on fire. The welfare you talk about (which we all hate) is a very, very small portion of the tax burden. And besides, there are things in place to keep people from just living on welfare all their lives - or have you done your homework? Yes I know there is corruption in the welfare system and that there are welfare cheats milking the system. But that doesn't account for the majority of people who get assistance when they are in dire straits. I don't like the idea of paying for people to sit home and watch Jerry Springer on their widescreen TVs either. So I'm making my voice heard through letters to my Congressmen (and woman). Are you doing that? Because they actually do pay attention to what they hear from their constituents. They may not listen as closely to them as they do to the lobbyists, but trust me, they know that our votes control their job. Most of us have just been too lazy, sitting around not doing anything, or just bellyaching about what we think is wrong with the government. I hope that this race has energized and informed people to such an extent that from now on we will all stop feeling like such victims of our government and politicians and start all being activists for a better America!

L8Bloom: That is a fantastic story and I think you all are fantistic for getting people together and helping save a life! It is just this kind of thing that I believe is the only real way to stop abortions. I don't know anyone who is "pro-abortion". I do know lots and lots of people who believe that making abortion a crime is not the answer to solving this very difficult problem. Keep up your good work in helping save women's lives and giving the gift of life to babies!

The reason so many from both parties voted for the bail out is because things are in such dire straits we had to take action. Have you taken a look at what other countries are doing? Are you angry with everybody in the entire world? Do you honestly think that this situation will right itself? John McCain doesn't talk a lot about his real plans for us. He mostly puts his spin on Senator Obama's plans. When you dissect McCain's plans, he is all about keeping us where we are right now only he's want to give even more tax breaks to large corporations. McCain says that Obama's plan will not create jobs. That is exactly the opposite of what is true. Jobs have not been created by making corporations wealthier - the money absolutely has not trickled down and more jobs were not created for Americans. Americans' jobs are being shipped overseas because of greedy corporations. And Obama doesn't want to impose more tax on corporations than is fair... he only wants to roll back the enormous tax breaks that Republicans have given them during this administation. The housing market has gone paws up because lenders became more and more greedy and devised loans that they knew people couldn't afford, but were so enticing that people went for them. And btw in the past, people's salaries increased over the years and they could eventually make their house payments when the interest rate on their adjustable mortgages went up. Salaries aren't seeing those kinds of increases and people are being laid off. And people want to blame home buyers for the entire housing bust? If the Congress had not done something to come to the rescue, you'll be screaming (as would McCain) that the Democrats weren't willing to try to fix the mess. You said we don't have a good choice for president and that is the most important exception to your post that I have. We have an excellent choice for President: Senator Obama! He is one of the most intelligent men we've had run for president in many, many years. He is capable of accomplishing a turn around on most of the terrible problems that the Republicans have given us. That is, if he has enough support in Congress to make it work. Some presidents have been capable in the past, but were stymied by a Congress that fought them all the way. We need to throw out all the people in the White House and clean up the Congress and if that happens I think you'll be surprised at how good things can be again.

gadget you are great at locating links for us. Can you find the link showing Obama saying that the first thing he will do is sign the Freedom of Choice Act? Since I believe that this question of women's rights is the core of this issue, I believe that if he does take that action, it is probably right and good. Although I do admit that I have not seen the FOCA proposed legislation.

gadget you very eloquently proved my point. It looks like there are some people who do appreciate hearing it. They probably have not had the benefit of hearing it so many times like I have. If you have won some people over to join in your fight to save lives, I commend you. My hope is that no one mistakes me for being what you label as "pro-abortion" - and I hope that if people are anti-abortion they do not mistake that for being anti-choice. There is a place for all of us - IF and only IF one side does not move to take away the rights of the other side here at this debate.

I thank God that there are finally people who are blowing the whistle on the corruption and dishonesty behind the Republican wins in the past elections and blowing the whistle on the possibility of more of the same this year. Maybe all Americans have a chance of having their votes counted and their voices heard - that would be something that I believe every Christian fair-minded person in this country should be thankful for. I appreciate you calling attention to the very real possibility that this year will present the same or more challenges that have happened in the past. Exposure is the best way to meet these challenges and begin the arrest and prosecution of people like we had to prosecute publically in the Nixon administration. Corruption in our politics and the lop-sided policies that favor the very wealthy in this country must stop. If they don't, the country that we have known and loved and the ideals that this country is based on are fast coming to an end. The greed has become so pervasive in our government and in our corporations in America, that the things we have taken for granted are failing and collapsing all around us. If Americans can't understand why we need to readjust our focus in this country, then they will elect John McCain. I hope we are smarter than that. I am so grateful to the men and women who have come out and endorsed Senator Obama who are Republicans, heads of corporations and some of the top military personnel. It has taken a lot of courage and soul-searching for them to buck the system and stand up for what they know is right. Those are the leaders that we need. They, along with Senator Obama can make the kinds of changes that will rebalance the power in America. We need people who care about our country more than they care about their pocketbooks. We need people who love and respect their neighbors, people who are willing to go to bat for all Americans, not just the few who sit on the top of the corporate heap sucking this country dry. The "October Surprise" is quickly emerging this morning. Some of the wealthiest Americans are going to come out of the woodwork and tell us that without the Republicans at the helm, they predict a depression. Well my fellow Americans (as your hero McCain likes to say), they already have brought us to the brink of disaster. We are going to have to scramble like crazy if we are going to pull us out of this before we find ourselves without some of the most basic things that we take for granted. And Senator Obama and his new administration are our best hope for that. Certainly not more of the same greedy people in Washington or the pharmacutical companies running us, the insurance companies running us, the oil companies running us and the greedy wall street guys manipulating the market.

If she hasn't answered your questions, gadget, how could you possibly know if her answers are different from mine in any way? You are looking for opportunities to load up your ammunition and fire away. She may be new enough to this debate that she doesn't know that, but I have a feeling that she does know it and, like many others, is not willing to give you that opportunity. Nighty nite.

Lucky you Canadians, eh! gadget, we must find a middle ground in this country. A middle ground that allows for tolerance and understanding and compromise. A way for us to get along, if you will. What is the alternative? A state of war? You believe that people want some kind of civil war? Are we no better than some of the countries that have attacked each other in the streets, practiced ethnic cleansing and imprisoned people for having different beliefs and different religions? Those countries where we have intervened and spent our money and our lives trying to help them learn how to live with each other... you expect that in this country? The Republicans have had control of this country for actually over 8 years. It has brought our economy down, it has driven our national debt out of sight, it has caused our country to be at war once again in a far off nation that has cost American lives and American taxpayer dollars for no sane reason. It is time for a change. You need to allow others to try their hand at running things and allow them time to prove that they can take the kind of action that will get this country healthy again. If you can't allow that, we are sunk as a democratic nation.

It's just this kind of rudeness that makes people not want to discuss this with you, gadget. I never once have said anything about a woman being "inconvenienced" by a pregnancy. That is your nastiness coming out. Just because you think that's how people feel who may have to choose to have an abortion, doesn't mean you know what the heck you're talking about. Your lack of compassion and understanding of the very shattering components of a woman finding out that she is pregnant when she did not plan for it, and cannot support it, is expected but still shocking. Your harshness is one of the reasons you won't win this argument. That's one of the major problems with the anti-choice movement. Your use of certain language and your insistence that no one's beliefs are valid if they are different from yours is just the stuff that makes people think twice when reading your propaganda. I finished with this for tonight. Don't worry though, tomorrow I'll find more time to devote to this space.

Thanks for your response, Jack. I completely agree with your point that the news media are biased. I can't remember exactly when that fact first starting revealing itself to us. But it seems ever so long since we could feel confident that the "news" is purely factual information.

The fertilized egg starts out by being implanted in the woman's tissue. Your "analogy" is flawed.

Because the new argument would be why not allow your fertilized egg be developed in this new contraption. Duh.