BJean

Debbie you're right, we all want to be loved or at least liked. The older I get I've decided that the best I can hope for in dealing with other people is fairness. As long as people treat others fairly, I am pretty happy. I strive to be as fair as I can. It actually isn't always easy to figure out the most fair answer. I totally understand what you're saying about the blond princess in the fairy tales. When my older sister's daughter wanted a Cabbage patch doll, they were constantly sold out. One day she went to ToysRus when they announced that they got a shipment. The only one that was left when she got there was a darling brown baby with curly black hair. She wasn't sure if that would make a difference to her daughter because she'd never bought anything but white dolls with blond hair, like her daughter. She was pleased that when she brought the brown doll home to her daughter, she was delighted to get her Cabbage Patch kid and never seemed to notice that the doll was different at all. But it made me wonder what it was like for pretty little brown skinned girls to have to get blond-haired white dolls because that was all that their mothers could find.

Debbie, I have only been discriminated against (to my knowledge) because I am short and because I'm fat. I realize those are certainly not much of a big deal, comparatively speaking. But I know how it feels when someone says something derrogatory and although I probably have no idea how it feels for someone to touch my hair and make a statement like that, I can certainly imagine how it feels and I think I would find it difficult not to be bitter and defensive. You do not sound like a bitter or defensive person at all. You sound intelligent and as though you understand and accept discrimination for what it is and you try to learn from it and move on. It makes me want to get to know you better because I have a feeling that I could learn a lot from you. BJean

Sue that's very interesting conjecture. It makes sense, I guess. But I might take exception to the thought that people under age 30 are more social. Unless you're talking about dating. And if you are, it seems that dating should motivate a person to be slim more than if a person were married or a confirmed bachelor or bachelorette. I do agree that not having carried the weight as long, it is probably not as much of a burden than being overweight is to older people. Especially if we're talking about health ramifications. As we all know, there's such a thing as late onset of diabetes or secondary diabetes and that's not something one should ignore. Also, high blood pressure and high cholesterol are both issues that older obese people have to deal with that those who are under 30 probably don't have yet. Thanks for your insight. It would be interesting to know why your doctor believes that people under 30 have a lower success rate with the band.

I have always been curious to learn if there is a difference in the rate of success between persons who were younger versus those who were older when they got the band. It makes sense to me that the longer you live with lousy eating habits, the harder it is to change them. But I do not know that to be true. Can't help but wonder..... I do know that with the band or the sleeve or gastric bypass there are no guarantees that you will be slim for the rest of your life. I have watched too many people in the public eye go through losing a lot after surgery and then regaining much of the weight, and it doesn't seem to matter whether their surgery involved the band, the sleeve or gastric bypass. Anybody have any input?

Hey Debbie: Thanks for your thought-provoking post. I can't explain why anyone would discriminate against you for any reason, much less because you are a lady with darker skin or because you are a lady who cannot see. Too bad we don't all experience blindness for a while in our lives. It wouldn't take very long for us to understand that the color of people's skin doesn't tell us what kind of person they are. When my son became a teenager and decided to be in a band, he grew his hair long and wore rocker's clothes and makeup for his gigs and to impress the other kids. Other parents saw his band's performances and they smiled and clapped along with me. But if they saw him walking down the street without me, they would have avoided him and they would have made the judgement that he was a bad kid, as evidenced by his clothes and hair. After I learned that shocking lesson, I looked at all teenagers differently. I realized that they all have a mother and that there was no possible way that their attire determined whether they were a bad kid or not. Discrimination and bigotry are based in ignorance and fear. When I notice discrimination and I speak to a bigot or read something they have written, I know I am speaking with and noticing a person who is flat out ignorant. An ignorant person scares me much, much more than someone with skin different from mine or with clothing that looks outrageous to me. I don't know how we, as a nation, will ever get past our sad, pathetic history and ignorance. I have hope that having a President who has dark skin and a multi-racial upbringing and a varied cultural background and education, will be an excellent example for all of us - and that he will prove just how ignorant it is to prejudge people and how ignorant it is to discriminate against others for any reason.

gadget seems to travel sometimes but she always comes back - with a vengance. want2beme: Thanks for your post. I agree with you about the humility thing and the value of loving each other. And I also agree that this is a very thought provolking thread. However, there has never been a time that the anti-choice folks have made a convincing argument that we should force women to leave the decision about abortion up to the government rather than to the women involved.

Wonder when the resident "expert" on the anti-choice movement will return? I'm sure she will bring new and even more disgusting propaganda to post. It's eerily quiet and pleasant here. And I'm not referring to the religious expert, you know.

Good for you, recycling is great!

Thanks for the advice heartfire!

Isn't that the best feeling?! My DH keeps telling me that I'm wearing sizes that are too big for me. I'm so used to wearing tents that cover everything, I'm uncomfortable with clothes that actually fit. Maybe when I lose 20 or so more lbs, I'll get over that.

I'd like to see you in a bikini, Kartman. Whoo hoo, cheap thrills! Seriously you peeps are doing great! I remember when I went from a size "Omar the tentmaker" to a normal ladies 14. Now I'm wanting to get into a petite size 14. You all keep up the good work!!! bjean

Horrible if it keeps you upset, great if it inspires you to learn something, eh?

Hey Rodriguez, it sure looks peaceful around here. I think this thread was about to be burnt to the ground. And btw, I thought your points about AIDS were spot on. Glad you had the ammunition at your fingertips. I am sick and tired of people bashing gay people for that disease. Was it just me or did she intimate that it was a curse? I've heard that before, by some of the Bush politicos among others.

Btw, you never had to go off topic to bring religion into the discussion. But it was like you hijacked every thread. You didn't want to relate religion to any of the topics, you wanted to dominate every topic and you judged everyone else who posted in your usual extremely negative way.

patty with all due respect... the reason I participated in the discussion about AIDS and the rest is because it was being discussed here and I wanted to participate. I didn't bring it up, you know? I think you're the hypocrite and for some extremely obvious reasons. They run much deeper than the reason you used for accusing me of being a hyprocrite (for posting on a subject being discussed.) I think that you're probably quite willing to jump off this thread because you can't possibly keep up with all of the negative responses to your posts. Oh you've done a good job of prattling on after everyone posts, but you're obviously losing the battle. There are a few people here who have stated that they are atheists, but the majority do not say that they are non-believers or that they are not religious. If we go by your posts, you think you have the only key to the Bible, religion and spritiualism, the only one who has the knowledge that allows people to get into heaven, and yet you constantly put down your fellow man for nearly every reason in the book. So you come across as the hypocrite and that is why so many people jump on you full force. If you were the kind of person that demonstrated that she deserves to be respected for her beliefs, people would be deferential to you at least and they might argue a bit but they wouldn't get so outraged by the continual hypocrisy laced throughout your posts. See you over on the religious threads. Buh bye.

Yes plain, we do own a small business and we do offer a plan for medical insurance. Do you? Yes plain, I have talked to several doctors at great length about the insurance companies and what they have done to the quality of health care in America. Have you? I learned that not only have the insurance companies adversely affected the kind of care and medicine that are dispensed, it has trickled down to the medical schools. The best and brightest used to go to medical school in this country. Now they don't. And I challenge you to get a good ole' homegrown doctor for all your special needs in America. There's a good chance English will not be their first language. And most of them are not even educated in America. I know that you live in Texas, unless you lied about that, and I would imagine that you have it better than in most large cities with regard to the medical care and doctors who treat you. But in many large cities, it is true. How many large cities have you lived in? How many doctors have you seen who specialize in one type of medicine? What you're saying is that you believe you trust insurance companies to take better care of your medical needs than the government, with its' checks and balances, could. I disagree with you. It has been proven what the free market winds up giving us: inferior and even questionable decisions about our health. And once again, it's all about greed. What started out being a seemingly great idea - medical insurance for everyone to cover everything - has turned out to cause Americans as a whole to have inferior medical care than in many other industrialized nations. If you haven't experienced the decline of medical care in the U.S., then you're one of the lucky ones. I have lived in a country where the government was involved in providing medical care. Have you? My family and I were treated within that system for all of our medical needs. Have you ever experienced that kind of medical care? It was a much better system than what we have here in the U.S. Sorry to burst your bubble. I think that maybe you need to prove to me exactly why YOU are right instead of just declaring that the capitalistic approach to medicine is superior by conjuring up some hypothetical scenarios. Because it is my experience that says there is all evidence to the contrary, dear sir.

plain: " Single- payer system will totally abolish private insurance. Who can compete with the government when it comes to negotiating contracts, or buying power? Single-payer will end private health insurance..." Oh my, would that it were true! The insurance companies are the bane of our existence. They've got us all by the kahoonas and have for a long time. They're the reason we have the problems we have with our medical system. It is a complicated situation but it all falls back on the insurance companies in the end. It's partially our fault that it got so out of hand. It started with escalating health care costs, sometimes due to malpractice lawsuits. Now I think people should be able to have redress when they have been a victim of genuine medical malpractice. But the awards got out of hand and the doctors decided they had to be protected from those big awards that juries were willing to award their victims. So the whole thing snowballed and now we have lousy medical care for the masses in this country. If you are very wealthy you can get good care, but if you depend on insurance, or if you can't even pay for insurance, you are s$$t out of luck.

Oh yeah and plain, it didn't go unnoticed that she was for Ron Paul. I remember that he was your man too. Hope it didn't interfere with your rockin' sense of humor. Wonder who did the official numbers that claim that nearly all black voters voted for Barack Obama because of his skin color? That's seriously screwed up folks.

plain: "That's funny that you see self hate because she disagrees with Obama's politics." Really? Did you read her piece? It had a whole lot to do with her own personal history. You're ignoring that because you agree with the politics of the Republicans that she infused into her self-hate story. Cleo'sMom, excellent posts. Right on all counts. Don't you love the way the Republicans rewrite history?

Regarding the AIDS virus as a homosexual disease: "Your source is either a complete moron or is having a little fun with you because he believes YOU are a complete moron. I'll leave it to you to decide which. HIV entered the human population sometime during the early part of the 20th century in sub-Saharan Africa as a result of inadvertent transmission to humans of viruses that were already present in monkeys, probably as a result of blood exposure through hunting and butchering." Joel M. Gallant, M.D. There was an unbelievable amount of incorrect information that was passed around by the media that originated from various sources, including misinformation and conjecture put forth by our own medical profession. That information included the assumption that you are making, patty, that gay people started the virus and spread it. The fact is that it is a blood borne disease. Anytime there is blood transmission from infected monkeys or humans to others, there is an opportunity for the infection to be spread. Sex never has to be involved at all. There is evidence that intravenous drug users were the true culprits in the early spread of the disease. I have a friend who was a nurse who accidentally pricked her skin with a needle that she had used to draw blood from an infected child. Although she was treated immediately and monitored by the staff in her hospital, she contracted HIV from that exposure. To call AIDS a curse is utterly ignorant and typical of the garbage that some extremists use to fan the flames of intolerance and bigotry. The fact that you have bought into that and have actually posted it on a public website, reveals so much about who you are, patty.

patty on a different thread a while back, the discussion kept getting off the main topic of the thread. A regular poster, I believe it was plain, shut that thread down and opened another thread addressing the discussion that was inappropriately dominating the earlier one. I figured we shouldn't go that route here and that maybe you would just voluntarily take your religion discussion to the thread that you started (or is it threads?) on religion. I have never blocked anyone and don't intend to start now. I haven't said that you can't post anything you want to post. I merely made a courteous suggestion, hoping that you would understand why I suggested it and that you would respond by politely moving your rants about religion to the religion threads. Obviously you are having a field day and you probably think that you are winning souls over to Christ. Do you think that? Or are you just getting a thrill over the constant rebuttals that you get from all sides? As for me, you asked a question of me and the answer is: I do feel the way I do.

patty, I have a suggestion. I noticed that you have started a thread with a topic of religion. It is flourishing. Why don't you keep your sermons for that thread? Then when any of us get a fond yearning to read a patty sermon, or even to argue against its' merits, we can go there and get a good dose of it. As it is, you seem to be polluting every thread on rants and raves.

Boy I feel very sorry for her. Her self-hate is so deeply ingrained that she will never see her way clear to climb out. Her essay reveals many things, one of which is that sometimes an education can serve to further cloud a person's mind rather than opening it to new possibilities.

Well this place seems to have some kind of gravitational hold on me. Everytime I've decided I've about had enough I get pulled back in by some interesting thread. Go figure.

I guess the Swine Flu that has just been declared a pandemic was caused from some non-born again who kissed a pig. Wonder why a vision of Sarah Palin just flashed through my head?